Any advice for running a mercenary guild in pathfinder? Notably, getting a loan? :)

[Odessa333]

Hey there!

So I am doing research into the pathfinder down time mechanic. My party has decided to try it's hand at running a mercenary guild, and I've sort of become the 'research person' to find out how that works. Every time I think I understand it... I realize I don't lol. I could use a few pointers, see if I'm doing this right.

1. In my hours of reading, I SWORE I saw rules for getting a loan to start up a business, but now I can't find where I read it. Did I imagine this?

2. For this example, let's say I am trying to build a basic 'barracks.' The rules stat to build I need:

Create: 80 Goods, 18 Influence, 73 Labor, 1 Magic (3,700 gp)

If using unskilled labor to earn the requirements, you get 1 of goods, influence, labor, or magic a day. That's a 172 days to earn the building. If there are four of us, can we reduce that to 43 days?


3. Assuming I understand this right, could we pay a portion of the 3,700 GP cost to reduce the 43 days? Say, pay the gold for the 73 labor, and work for the rest? That would put us at needing 99 days to earn the rest for one person, or 25 days if allowed to divide by four.


4. Once it is built, it generates gp, labor, influence, and magic. GP is easy enough, roll for gold. I'm less clear on what generating the others do. The example it gives is using influence to persuade guards. Simple enough. But the others...eh. Could goods be used to bribe officials? Labor too run the business itself? Magic to make items? I'm not sure.


Do I understand this right? Anything I'm missing? I'd love to hear feedback from those who know. Thanks for your time! ;)

[Yahzi]

I think the Pathfinder stuff is for running a city; that is, the effects of various buildings are abstractions affecting the city ruler's job. I don't think they will work well for running a single enterprise.

In particular a mercenary company is a bad choice. Mercenary companies don't buy barracks; they usually aren't based in a single location but move around to where the work is. In any case they are comprised of men, not buildings (and the men are expendable). Finally, no one sane would lend you money to start a mercenary company. The risk is sky-high and how would anybody collect on the debt if you chose not to pay?

A reputation as a mercenary commander, who can attract a large body of men at a moment's notice and lead them into battle is what you want; hiring men before you have an actual contract is just a waste of cash.

[Odessa333]

While I appreciate the input, I do know what I am trying to do. The Pathfinder rules have plenty on running a business, it's just so convoluted and long winded to read that it's easy to get lost. When I'm not sure, I like to double check things here.

As for mercenaries only being wanderings without a base, I feel you are mistaken. A single mercenary can wander, sure, but an entire company of 50+ mercenaries all roaming around looking for work together just doesn't make sense. The idea is to become the respected mercenary leader, to give 'sellswords' a more respected standard by becoming an organized union. It's really a common concept, so I'm surprised you haven't heard of it.

If anyone does know the rules I mentioned, let me know. I'd love to double check I am doing this right! ;)

[Odessa333]

Hm, a BUMP in hopes of getting more input. Does anyone use these rules, or are they THAT obscure...?

[Kudaku]

I'd love to give you some more detailed advice but I'm away from my computer till Tuesday and typing anything longer than a text message on my phone makes my thumbs cry.

If it can't wait till Wednesday I'd suggest trying the Rules Questions message board on Paizos official forum.

[TETanglebrooke]

Having done this before I can say it isn't worth the time.

Step 1: Gather gold and reputation via adventuring
Step 2: Take the leadership feat
Step 3: Use gold to hire some dudes to build yourself barracks/offices
Step 4: Role play the negotiation of a contract.
Step 5: Wait for the DM to tell you how many of your dudes died
Step 6: Go to 4

[Tovec]

1. In my hours of reading, I SWORE I saw rules for getting a loan to start up a business, but now I can't find where I read it. Did I imagine this?
As far as I can find, there are no rules for getting a loan. I've found several references to being able to get one, usually short term and relating to needed items and not money, but those are mostly for lords/nobles or those with affiliations. Oh, and the "bank" building can lend money. But yeah, I don't think this is a thing. Sorry.


2. For this example, let's say I am trying to build a basic 'barracks.' The rules stat to build I need:

Create: 80 Goods, 18 Influence, 73 Labor, 1 Magic (3,700 gp)
80 Goods, 18 Influence, 73 Labor, 1 Magic (3,700 gp) in order to create a barracks, the building itself, yes. It is a big building with some rooms. I very much enjoy Ultimate Campaign, but I haven't had good success running the systems contained within. I do find the TEAMS section more useful however.


If using unskilled labor to earn the requirements, you get 1 of goods, influence, labor, or magic a day. That's a 172 days to earn the building. If there are four of us, can we reduce that to 43 days?
So, you can buy or earn resources (goods, influence, labour, magic). The above figure is how much of each of those resources you need to physically build and stock your barracks. The 3700gp is the cost of buying everything directly. After the building is created it can earn you more resources. In this way buildings are primarily built as businesses that regain the value over time. Kind of like that expression that the hardest million to earn is the first one, because that one helps you gain the second million.

I would definitely recommend buying as much as you can, as you say it can get lengthy fast if working to acquire it. It is obviously more expensive (in terms of gp) than earning it through manual labour. For the labour end to earn it - you still have to buy the resources, just at half value. Or rather buying it costs twice the listed value compared to the earned price which is 1x. This gets annoying and confusing fast. They say in the book that prices are listed at the half value but then list buildings at the full price. So, terminology gets messed up. For here on I'm going to say purchase price = 1x and earned price = .5x just to be clear.

Back to the original question: Spending 1 day working (assuming you have the skills) gains you 1 point of whatever you want (but costs you the half price as well). So four people can earn all the required resources in 43 days while paying 1850 total to acquire them, assuming each person puts in a full day and is above average at what they do.

Although as I'm finishing this post I went back to double check some things and I realized there is another section for "skilled work" which I didn't address, same for class abilities and purchasing and rewards. So I'll summarize by saying skilled work requires a check and may get you more per day, purchased is buying it at full price, rewards is variable and up to the DM, same with the class abilities.


3. Assuming I understand this right, could we pay a portion of the 3,700 GP cost to reduce the 43 days? Say, pay the gold for the 73 labor, and work for the rest? That would put us at needing 99 days to earn the rest for one person, or 25 days if allowed to divide by four.
The 43 days is independent from the cost. It just so happens it takes 4 people 43 days to gather the cumulative 173 resources needed to build the building. 3700gp is the full price cost of those resources and (as far as I'm reading) can be gotten in a single day at that price. The 3700 listed after the resource cost is the total (full) price of the items listed. It is not an extra on top of them. It is like saying "Masterwork Breastplate, Masterwork Heavy Steel Shield, Masterwork Shortsword (830gp)" .. also known as 10+300+200+150+20+150.

I don't know where you are getting the 99 days and 25 days for four people. Building the building also takes a fair length of time, but I don't think that is what you are asking about so... moving on....


4. Once it is built, it generates gp, labor, influence, and magic. GP is easy enough, roll for gold. I'm less clear on what generating the others do. The example it gives is using influence to persuade guards. Simple enough. But the others...eh. Could goods be used to bribe officials? Labor too run the business itself? Magic to make items? I'm not sure.
This comes back to the first million I said before. The resources gained are mostly useful for maintenance, building new buildings(or teams), or converting into other things. But successful buildings can earn far more than they need (if you aren't making more buildings or teams). Far more, in my experience, than really is worth it. So, if you want the 1 mil and don't want the 2nd mil, then just go for the cash. Labour, I think, is only good for building more things. Goods are variable commodities and good in most shops and buildings, magic is fairly useful as it can be turned into items or item coinage, and influence I find is clunky but yes it can be used to persuade officials/guards/whatever.


Do I understand this right? Anything I'm missing? I'd love to hear feedback from those who know. Thanks for your time! ;)
You seem to grasp the basics fairly well. If you really want to get into it then I would recommend spending some time looking at the PFSRD and maybe working on a few examples over and over until it makes sense. I obviously think that the system isn't much worth it as written - too long, drawn out and overcomplicated for my taste. But I have gotten some great use when it comes to building buildings for static use as opposed to a business.

Going back to the idea of a mercenary company, I would look at teams, at least as somewhere to start. I also suggest, if you are going to use this system, that you actually start building as soon as you acquire the resources - start making the rooms inside the barracks. Also, longer term if this is to be the base of operations, consider how you may need to expand over and above a singular barracks. Also what kinds of fortifications and modifications will be needed. And see what kinds of changes to the basic structure of the building you may want. Need an extra armoury or vault? More cots? Laboratory? Library? Maybe even adding extra buildings onto your building and forming a complex down the road - that's what my players did when they started a merc guild (way back when, well before these rules existed and I had to use the strongholder's guide).

But the extra earning capabilities can be used to reinvest and that is probably where they are best spent - to upgrade the place instead of buying off guards. Also be careful how you use it. If planning on making it a business be careful how it is run since the rules are fairly clear on what has to happen for it to be a business (which earns resources) instead of a headquarters (which does not).

That's all I can think to add right now. Let me know if you have any other questions. I assume that a lot of what I said you'll already know, but unfortunately with these kinds of threads I have to start basic and work our way up to make sure there are no confusions.

[theIrkin]

So I cannot remember reading anything about loans, but if you were able to get one, I would think this was either a function of any reputation mechanic you are using or up to the DM to create a precedent.

For number 2: each unit of goods, influence, labor, or magic represent a roughly equal value of each commodity. unskilled labor is much less valuable than magic, but 8 or 12 or whatever hours of unskilled labor might be worth a 1st level spell to a mid-level mage. Hence the equivalent of each of these commodities can be generated by 1 unskilled laborer in 1 24 hour period. Instead of focusing on these units specifically, imagine that your barracks would cost 172 units of trade. You can buy those units of trade for 3700 gp. If you have a mage who is willing to cast spells, he can then count as skilled labor and create more of your trade commodity, etc with other forms of skilled labor. So figure out what skills your party can use to qualify as skilled labor, and this will lessen the build time of your building. This time can be further lessened if the party uses their own capital to buy some of the trade units needed. This system is meant to simulate in a basic way how an economy works, rather than creating specific prescriptions on what you need of x, y, and z ingredients for a building.

3. Yes, see above.

4. You generate whatever product your business sells, but it is assumed you have then traded it for something else. In the real world many businesses agree to contracts in which some or all of the payment is in trade, so I perform mercenary work for you, you build my new office for me. That is what is being represented by your business generating both gold and the abstract commodities used for this system. It's imperfect, but meant to balance some of the sheer gold earning potential of these systems while also encouraging those who are interested to continue to manage businesses or settlements within this system.

[Kudaku]

Great, looks like some other posters stepped into the fray! Drop a post if there's anything else you're wondering about. :smallsmile: