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View Full Version : How good is Summon Swarm?



Jimp
2007-02-22, 03:06 PM
I'm currently playing a summoning focused build in my IRL game and was wondering about the spell Summon Swarm. Complete Mage recommends it but I'm not entirely sure. My character is currently level 3 with the Augment Summon feat.
Here's the Summon Swarm info:


Summon Swarm

Conjuration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#conjuration) (Summoning (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#summoning))

Level (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#level): Brd 2 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/bardSpells.htm#secondLevelBardSpells), Drd 2 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/druidSpells.htm#secondLevelDruidSpells), Sor/Wiz 2 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/sorcererWizardSpells.htm#secondLevelSorcererWizard Spells) Components (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#components): V, S, M/DF Casting Time (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#castingTime): 1 round Range (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#range): Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Effect (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#effect): One swarm of bats, rats, or spiders Duration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#duration): Concentration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/concentration.htm) + 2 rounds Saving Throw (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#savingThrow): None Spell Resistance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#spellResistance): No You summon a swarm of bats (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/swarm.htm#batSwarm), rats (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/swarm.htm#ratSwarm), or spiders (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/swarm.htm#spiderSwarm) (your choice), which attacks all other creatures within its area. (You may summon the swarm so that it shares the area of other creatures.) If no living creatures are within its area, the swarm attacks or pursues the nearest creature as best it can. The caster has no control over its target or direction of travel.
Arcane Material Component

A square of red cloth.

oriong
2007-02-22, 03:09 PM
Summon Swarm is quite good, often better than Summon Monster. The main disadvantage is the concentration duration, but that does make Summon Swarm a good 'sniper' spell cast from hiding.

If you're playing something like a sorcerer you'll want to get rid of it at higher levels simply because the swarm will stop being effective eventually but at level 3 it's certainly pretty effective.

rollfrenzy
2007-02-22, 03:17 PM
I don't have my books with me but didn't summon swarm prevent spellcasting in the AOE.
Which made it really useful against casters.
also, no SR and NO Save spells are always useful.

(I may be thinking 3.0 or a different spell, and if so I'm sorry)

oriong
2007-02-22, 03:19 PM
It causes continuing damage which does force a concentration check to cast spells, but doesn't prevent them from being cast.

rollfrenzy
2007-02-22, 03:21 PM
Did it prevent casting in 3.0? or was there a summon insect or vermin spell that prevented casting? I remember one encounter where I used a spell and was able to harass the caster unitl the fighters got there. (good chance we read the rules wrong or the bad guy had a really low concentration check.

Still really annoying, because some of those checks will fail.

reorith
2007-02-22, 03:39 PM
a wand of summon swarm and someone wearing full plate :)
stick the wand in, and conjure away.

it takes atleast 1d4+1 minutes to remove... if only i could find a way to concentrate while getting smacked in the head with a greatword...

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-02-22, 03:41 PM
I don't have my books with me but didn't summon swarm prevent spellcasting in the AOE.
Which made it really useful against casters.


Swarms have the Distraction ability that prevents spell casting through nausea on a failed fortitude save.
Distraction (Ex): Any living creature that begins its turn with a X swarm in its space must succeed on a DC Y Fortitude save or be nauseated (file:///D:/Roleplaying/3rd%20Edition/SRD%203.5/abilitiesAndConditions.html#nauseated) for 1 round. The save DC is Constitution-based.

(X,Y: My changes)

The DC is usually not very high, but the Augment Summoning helps.

Swarms can be really useful, just do not get to close :smallamused:

oriong
2007-02-22, 03:42 PM
Did it prevent casting in 3.0? or was there a summon insect or vermin spell that prevented casting? I remember one encounter where I used a spell and was able to harass the caster unitl the fighters got there. (good chance we read the rules wrong or the bad guy had a really low concentration check.

Still really annoying, because some of those checks will fail.

I think they both created 'distracting effects' rather than explicitly preventing spellcasting. could be wrong though.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-02-22, 03:43 PM
I think they both created 'distracting effects' rather than explicitly preventing spellcasting. could be wrong though.

You are not. :smallbiggrin:

its_all_ogre
2007-02-22, 03:47 PM
awesome spell against those with poor fort saves, use spiders for poison!

combine this with another caster using hold person and you're laughing, one of my bbeg's were killed this way!

ravenkith
2007-02-22, 03:50 PM
At lower levels, summon (spider) swarm is an excellent spell in combination with invisibility.

Actually, if you're playing a summoner and AREN'T using invisibility, you might want to rectify that.

The main advantages of the spell at low levels are:
- Concentration duration
- Automatic damage dealer: no roll to hit, untyped damage
- Immune to normal weapon damage (Spiders)
- can affect multiple opponents simultaneously
- does not cause invisibility to drop
- can cause stat damage (spiders)

The main disadvantages include:
- Not under direct control
- concentration duration

Until you come up against dr-equipped baddies, this spell is one of the best for the money! At higher levels, it loses it's effectiveness rapidly, unless you combine it with other spells. (Consider, if you will, the spell giant vermin)

CaptainSam
2007-02-23, 07:14 AM
Summon swarm can have devastating effects on an encounter. You just have to think on your feet to summon the most useful creature type.

Case in point: our DM had thrown a Drow party at us. There was a wizard, priestess, rogue and a fighter. We were slightly worried as we had no fighter at that point and the drow warrior looked pretty beefy.

The rogue was being out-rogued by our party sneak. I, the bard, had disarmed the priestess with my whip, and was making a general pest of myself by tripping her. The wizard had already been Blinded and our party wiz then turned his attention to the fighter. He cast Summon Swarm and chose...SPIDERS!!

Stupid drow fighter didn't know what to do,

"Urrr, spiders good. Spiders friends. Ow! Want to get rid of spiders, but me not know how without killing them. Then priestess be mad! OW!"

We survived that one, mostly because the guy playing the wizard is a very good wizard player.

So, to recap, Summon Swarm, while low level, can turn the tide in a fight.

Jimp
2007-02-23, 10:20 AM
Quick question:
My DM has arachnophobia, would summoning the spider swarm be mean?

hewhosaysfish
2007-02-23, 10:27 AM
Quick question:
My DM has arachnophobia, would summoning the spider swarm be mean?

Not unless you give detailed desciptions of the size/legs/hair of the spiders and/or graphic accounts of them crawling over their victims and biting them repeatedly.
If the guy (girl?) flinches at merely the word 'spiders' then they deserve to flinch.
I suppose if there's someone in the group who is guaranteed to try and freak the DM out by spelling out said graphics details then you should excercise caution there as well.

ampcptlogic
2007-02-23, 10:28 AM
Jimp: Only if he has a very, very vivid imagination.

MrNexx
2007-02-23, 02:21 PM
Ouch... you know, a Warlock with Spell Focus: Conjuration and Augment Summoning could make a killing by spamming swarms...

(Yes, I know it specifies "spell" in the feat description. I think it's a reasonable application of the feat)

ravenkith
2007-02-23, 03:53 PM
Not really: a swarms damage is not dependent on it's strength score. And when the warlock's swarm is destroyed, he can simply summon another one, so hp is not important.

MrNexx
2007-02-23, 04:14 PM
Not really: a swarms damage is not dependent on it's strength score. And when the warlock's swarm is destroyed, he can simply summon another one, so hp is not important.

Hmmm... true. Oh, well, back to the 2 levels of Chameleon for the free choice of any invocation.

silentknight
2007-02-23, 07:38 PM
I believe that 3.0 insect swarm and insect plague both prevented any action other than movement while within their area of effect.

Ramza00
2007-02-23, 07:45 PM
Much better at low levels than summon monster 2. The concentration means you can keep it going longer than the 3 rounds summon monster 2 gets. Eventually it gets eclipsed.