What school to ban? (3.5)

[curious-puzzle]

So I'm going to be joining a game shortly where I'll be playing a conjurer going into master specialist and malconvoker. We're starting at level 1, and I've got the build done except that I'm unsure of which schools to ban. Evocation is one for sure, but I'm stuck on whether to ban enchantment or necromancy for the second school...

What do you fine folk think? Necromancy is a more powerful school of magic, but enchantment has a lot of handy spells to aid with my smoothtalking/conning/persuading of nasty gribbly fiends to do grunt work for me. If it matters, it looks like the other party members so far are an artificier, rogue, and knight/some sort of beatstick class (keeps changing his mind).

[Gildedragon]

I'd go for banning necromancy. It is a varied school but for the most part expendable.
While I am not a fan of enchantment (all the charm/dominate spells give me the heebie jeebies) it is a handy buffing school.

[eggynack]

While I am not a fan of enchantment (all the charm/dominate spells give me the heebie jeebies) it is a handy buffing school.
I don't think it particularly is that. I mean, sure, there are a couple of buff spells (heroism, rage, some third thing), but they tend to be inferior to what other schools offer. As for the main question at hand, I'd tend towards banning enchantment as the second school. It's just way too high variance to be to my liking.

[Werephilosopher]

I myself just started a campaign as a malconvoker, and I banned Evocation and Necromancy. Necromancy does have quite a variety of good spells, but if you're focused on summoning (which as a malconvoker, you should be) you won't be needing them. Enchantment simply gives you better options imho when dealing with planar binding- stack fear effects, geas, etc. until they have no choice but to comply with your demands.

Edit: Thematically, Necromancy is a much better choice to dump as well. Necromancy is usually taboo a lot more than Enchantment, if the populace has any strong views on magic. Plus, you should already be pumping your Charisma into the stratosphere so as to better manipulate fiends- dropping the school that lets you do so magically really doesn't make too much sense.

[Karnith]

The standard bans (not counting Evocation) are Enchantment, because it is mostly Will save-or-lose effects that are shut down hard by immunity to mind-affecting, and Necromancy, because it doesn't have a lot of really unique effects (though it is quite good at what it does). I personally find Enchantment to be more expendable (there are Enchantment-like effects in a bunch of other schools; Necromancy gets some nice fear effects and domination, for example, and Illusion is all over Will save or loses), but it's not likely to be a huge deal; keep Necromancy if you like debuffing and/or undead minions, and keep Enchantment if you like messing with NPCs.

Enchantment simply gives you better options imho when dealing with planar binding- stack fear effects, geas, etc. until they have no choice but to comply with your demands.
Thanks to the school's debuffs, Necromancy is roughly as useful when dealing with bound creatures; Enervation and Bestow Curse are both very good at tanking a creature's saving throws and/or Charisma rolls, for example.

[Inevitability]

Illusion and Enchantment essentially do the same thing. Ban one of those and just use the other for your 'master of minds' business.

[eggynack]

Illusion and Enchantment essentially do the same thing. Ban one of those and just use the other for your 'master of minds' business.
That's not entirely accurate. Illusion offers quite a unique set of high power defensive spells, like invisibility and mirror image, as well as crazy like ice assassin, while enchantment mostly focuses on the minionmancy and SoL side of the spectrum. There's some crossover in the realm of intrigue, but the two schools are definitely not the same thing.

[2xMachina]

Go Focused Specialist and ban both Enchantment & Necromancy.:smallwink: No need to choose.

[Werephilosopher]

Illusion and Enchantment essentially do the same thing. Ban one of those and just use the other for your 'master of minds' business.

That's not entirely accurate. Illusion offers quite a unique set of high power defensive spells, like invisibility and mirror image, as well as crazy like ice assassin, while enchantment mostly focuses on the minionmancy and SoL side of the spectrum. There's some crossover in the realm of intrigue, but the two schools are definitely not the same thing.

Plus you definitely don't want to ban Illusion if you ever want to replicate choice Evocation spells.

[Azraile]

there are intire threads on this, going into detail about the pro's and cons of each school.... but realy, whats fits your char's story?

[ericgrau]

Plus you definitely don't want to ban Illusion if you ever want to replicate choice Evocation spells.
The ones that are great for their level and have no save and/or SR? Because shadow eliminates all of that.

But illusion does tend to be a lot better than enchantment. It sounds like the OP isn't going to use a lot of enchantment nor necromancy regardless of what he bans, so he may as well pick one for role play and keep enchantment. If he wants one for combat then he should try necromancy. Especially the no save debuffs and AOE. Since his enchantments will barely get used and there's less rush when role playing interactions, it would be good to leave a spell slot open and spend 15 minutes preparing the particular enchantment he needs. Or if no such situation comes up, he can put a combat spell there after the first fight or when a fight is expected. He could also prepare a lower level enchantment spell in a higher level slot so he only has to reserve 1 slot and to widen his options.

[curious-puzzle]

I was leaning towards banning necromancy, think this tips me the rest of the way. Thanks, everybody!