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View Full Version : So your character is hella FAST... Now what?



ben-zayb
2014-06-14, 08:55 PM
Being a fantasy game, it's a bit surprising that D&D didn't have much to offer when it comes to the speedster archetype. There are only a handful of ways to increase speed, and only a handful of known ways to utilize it.

Basically, I'm looking for RAW ways how a fast movement speed matters in D&D. From the top of my head (Chuck E. Cheese included):
1. charging distance
2. Kiting with Flyby Attack or Spring Attack (as well as Rapid Blitz and Bounding Assault)
3. Strafing Breath's nuking coverage
4. Great Flyby Attack's attack coverage
5. Dervish Dance's attack coverage
6. Skirmish (but with a low minimum of 10ft. movement)
7. Jump checks
8. all things reliant on high Jump checks (including many Tiger Claw maneuvers)
9. Tornado Throw's damage and throwing distance (Level 9 Setting Sun maneuver)
10. Ring of Fire' nuking coverage (Level 6 Desert Wind maneuver)
11. scouting
ADDED:
12. Overrun/Trample range (including other mechanics related to them)
13. Bull Rush distance (including other mechanics related to them)
14. abilities that enable multiple uses of those above (like Cavalry Charger feat for Overrun, and Cleaving Charge ACF for Charge)

Anything else that I've missed?

Nettlekid
2014-06-14, 08:58 PM
Increasing speed in D&D doesn't really connect to the speedster archetype. Sure, it's a component, but it's more like halfway to teleportation than anything. What DOES connect to the speedster archetype is action economy abuse. Being able to go fast, meh. Being able to do tons of things at once, THAT'S a speedster. The Swiftblade PrC is the one perfectly designed for this, though there are a lot of Psionic action tricks that you could use too.

Alex12
2014-06-14, 09:07 PM
Mountain Avalanche is a Stone Dragon maneuver that lets you trample multiple targets.

Curmudgeon
2014-06-14, 09:07 PM
You forgot increasing the maximum Bull Rush distance.
Bull Rush Results
If you beat the defender’s Strength check result, you push him back 5 feet. If you wish to move with the defender, you can push him back an additional 5 feet for each 5 points by which your check result is greater than the defender’s check result. You can’t, however, exceed your normal movement limit.
Also Travel Devotion swift action movement limit.

Jack_Simth
2014-06-14, 09:22 PM
Increasing speed in D&D doesn't really connect to the speedster archetype. Sure, it's a component, but it's more like halfway to teleportation than anything. What DOES connect to the speedster archetype is action economy abuse. Being able to go fast, meh. Being able to do tons of things at once, THAT'S a speedster. The Swiftblade PrC is the one perfectly designed for this, though there are a lot of Psionic action tricks that you could use too.
There's a Sorcerer one for it too. Pick up immunity to Daze, get Rapid Metamagic, then pull out a Sanctum Spell Greater Arcane Fusion - and pick Celerity and another Sanctum Spell Greater Arcane Fusion (which you then use to iterate). An arbitrarily large number of standard actions out of an 8th level spell slot (it continues until you choose to replace the Sanctum Spell Greater Arcane Fusion with something else). THAT is a cinematic speedster. It's pretty much Time Stop without the pesky limitations.

Flickerdart
2014-06-14, 09:28 PM
There's a feat in CWar called Cavalry Charger that enables you to make more than one Overrun attack, so you can run over lots of guys if you have extra movement speed.

A Streetfighter Barbarian's Cleaving Charge allows him to make charges as long as he can drop the target of the charge on the first attack and has movement remaining. If you were exceptionally strong compared to your enemies, that extra movement would let you charge a whole lot of them.

Jack_Simth
2014-06-14, 09:54 PM
There's a feat in CWar called Cavalry Charger that enables you to make more than one Overrun attack, so you can run over lots of guys if you have extra movement speed.

A Streetfighter Barbarian's Cleaving Charge allows him to make charges as long as he can drop the target of the charge on the first attack and has movement remaining. If you were exceptionally strong compared to your enemies, that extra movement would let you charge a whole lot of them.
Sounds like it would combine well with the Shock Trooper / Leap Attack / Frenzied Berserker combo. Well, until he loses it and TPK's the party in one round...

ben-zayb
2014-06-14, 10:55 PM
Oops, yeah, I forgot about better ranging Overrun/Trample/Bull Rush attacks.

Increasing speed in D&D doesn't really connect to the speedster archetype. Sure, it's a component, but it's more like halfway to teleportation than anything. What DOES connect to the speedster archetype is action economy abuse. Being able to go fast, meh. Being able to do tons of things at once, THAT'S a speedster. The Swiftblade PrC is the one perfectly designed for this, though there are a lot of Psionic action tricks that you could use too.Yeah, two of the issues with D&D are that 1. they have options for Nightcrawler-y but not much for Quicksilver-y and 2. they mostly lumped the whole option for speedster archetype with temporal-manipulation (valid but not always the case in fiction).

There's a Sorcerer one for it too. Pick up immunity to Daze, get Rapid Metamagic, then pull out a Sanctum Spell Greater Arcane Fusion - and pick Celerity and another Sanctum Spell Greater Arcane Fusion (which you then use to iterate). An arbitrarily large number of standard actions out of an 8th level spell slot (it continues until you choose to replace the Sanctum Spell Greater Arcane Fusion with something else). THAT is a cinematic speedster. It's pretty much Time Stop without the pesky limitations.I think that a fast-moving sorcerer is the least of the DM's problems when it comes to THAT.:smallbiggrin:

There's a feat in CWar called Cavalry Charger that enables you to make more than one Overrun attack, so you can run over lots of guys if you have extra movement speed.

A Streetfighter Barbarian's Cleaving Charge allows him to make charges as long as he can drop the target of the charge on the first attack and has movement remaining. If you were exceptionally strong compared to your enemies, that extra movement would let you charge a whole lot of them.I admit that I'm not too knowledgeable when it comes to Barbarian builds (aside from Power Attack + Shock Trooper + Pounce shenanigans). It's really good with Fast Movement, and now I'm figuring out why I haven't heard of this ACF before.:smallconfused:

Flickerdart
2014-06-14, 11:05 PM
I admit that I'm not too knowledgeable when it comes to Barbarian builds (aside from Power Attack + Shock Trooper + Pounce shenanigans). It's really good with Fast Movement, and now I'm figuring out why I haven't heard of this ACF before.:smallconfused:
It's in a web article (Cityscape web enhancement) and comes online at level 19 of Barbarian, by which point most people have long since PrCd out. The ability normally has the same problem that regular (Great) Cleave does - it's a cute trick, but if you're dropping opponents that quickly, you probably weren't in danger to begin with.

Jack_Simth
2014-06-14, 11:11 PM
I think that a fast-moving sorcerer is the least of the DM's problems when it comes to THAT.:smallbiggrin:
Granted, there's a lot of other things you can do with the basic technique besides an arbitrarily large number of standard actions (an arbitrarily large number of Wings of Flurry come to mind) - but it is a way to do a Cinematic Speedster in D&D sufficient to do the recent X-Men movie's "Time in a Bottle" scene if you want. Add a 4th level spell slot, and it's an immediate action. Maintain Foresight continuously, and you don't even need to win initiative (you do, however, need to cast as a Sorcerer-18 or better).

subject42
2014-06-14, 11:23 PM
You can move as a standard action. What about using Factotum to get lots of extra standard actions?

Also, skirmish requires a minimum movement amount. If your speed is high enough, you can still trigger it even if your speed is somehow reduced to even a fraction of your normal base speed.

ben-zayb
2014-06-14, 11:50 PM
You can move as a standard action. What about using Factotum to get lots of extra standard actions?

Also, skirmish requires a minimum movement amount. If your speed is high enough, you can still trigger it even if your speed is somehow reduced to even a fraction of your normal base speed.But you don't need a LOT of move speed for that, is what I'm saying.

Most move speed reducers that I can think of either halves speed or brings it exactly down to 5ft., so a move speed of 20ft. should suffice if only to trigger skirmish. Using charge to trigger skirmish, does get help from a high move speed, however (just like I noted at the first post).

Darrin
2014-06-15, 06:05 AM
Tornado Throw (9th level maneuver, Setting Sun) lets you throw an opponent every 10'.

2xMachina
2014-06-15, 06:36 AM
A Diamond Mind stance boost can give you a 2nd Move action. Another gives a free counter (which is like a free swift). There is 1 full round maneuver that let's you Full attack twice.

WhamBamSam
2014-06-15, 06:58 AM
Paimon's Dance of Death lets you move up to your speed making attacks the whole way. It's a standard action to boot, which is pretty cool.

weckar
2014-06-15, 07:44 AM
The usefulness of Up the Walls and similar abilities is hard-limited by your movement speed.

Alex12
2014-06-15, 08:17 AM
The usefulness of Up the Walls and similar abilities is hard-limited by your movement speed.

Fun fact: Up the walls specifies that you have to end the turn on a horizontal surface. It never says that surface can't be a ceiling.

Socratov
2014-06-15, 08:39 AM
Fun fact: Up the walls specifies that you have to end the turn on a horizontal surface. It never says that surface can't be a ceiling.

clever... *small applause*

Flickerdart
2014-06-15, 12:09 PM
Fun fact: Up the walls specifies that you have to end the turn on a horizontal surface. It never says that surface can't be a ceiling.
Up the Walls does not, however, give you any special dispensation for staying attached to the ceiling, so you just fall down on your face.

Curmudgeon
2014-06-15, 12:11 PM
Fun fact: Up the walls specifies that you have to end the turn on a horizontal surface. It never says that surface can't be a ceiling.
Interesting. If you've got Spider Climb or some other way to stay there, that would indeed be "on" the ceiling. (If you don't, you'd just be "below" the ceiling rather than "on" it.) So this could open up some additional tactical options, but really only for characters built to exploit the options that having a Climb speed adds.

Dungeon Specialist (Player's Handbook II, page 59) is a Scout ACF, trading their fast movement for a Climb speed = ½ land speed. So consider that one way to leverage extra speed is by trading a bit of it away. (Barbarian Lion Spiritual Totem pounce is the better-known example, of course.)

Vaz
2014-06-15, 12:39 PM
Ring of Fire - Full Round Action Maneuver from the Desert Wind stance, dealing 12d6 Fire Damage to anything within an area which you can run around in. Optimize your speed a bit; this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=13073075&postcount=14) build, say, dropping Scout Levels for Swordsage, so you can get the maneuvre, and you've 700ft of movement - which using pi = 4, gives you 87 squares engulfed in flames (at a rought estimate, I've not really gone into it).