Rules check.. Is Southern Magician really that broken?

[Donny_Green]

Case in point: Could the feat "southern magician" (races of FR) allow Divine spell casting classes to qualify for Arcane Caster PrCs.

More specifically: Could a cleric with Southern Magician qualify for War weaver PrC (heroes of battle).

Because cleric spells in the weave seems like having your birthday on Christmas. (and getting twice the presents)

So simple question. Is Southern Magician really that broke? or am I missing something in the haze of rules.

Hope to hear some good stuff playground

Thanks.

[Sian]

depends on how much you lean onto strict RAW, or guess at RAI

[sleepyphoenixx]

As written, yes. Even if it does allow entry it doesn't make cleric an arcane spellcasting class so you don't advance your spellcasting, making it a lot less desirable.
You could get cleric spells onto a War Weaver with a Rainbow Servant build though.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Yes, it is.

FR has a lot of broken caster s*** that should never be allowed, like this, the "Cheater of Mystara" build, the Incantatrix PrC, etc...

Or just don't allow anything from FR. That's what I usually do, possibly with very rare exceptions for martial stuff.

[Donny_Green]

Sleepy: Good find, I didn't even think to consider the synergy of the class features. The text "+1 arcane spell casting class" really does cap the strength of the build.

I'm aware of rainbow servant but 10 levels is a long time to wait. I guess most people talk in terms of level 20 build but I think "how many quests really get to level 20?

Sian: RAW is preferred simply because I deal with 5+ GM's and each one of them has different perspectives on the game.

[Socratov]

How about Wizard (dip)+Archivist+Mystic Theurge+War Weaver (advancing MT) using Southern Magician to turn divine spells into arcane ones. Now step1: get leadership and boost your Int into the Stratosphere, step 2: cast divine Power through the weave, with Celerity, Righteous Might, Holy Sword and alter fortune by releasing precast spells and casting one using your std. action, Step 3: ??? Step 4: attack enemies always first and crush them Step 6: reward your little minions with bananas.

[Donny_Green]

Soc that's a very interesting idea, it'd be much like the Fred Astire build except with a divine flavor to it... It's be more like the "Father Fred build"

I'll have to check it out a bit more though.. look for other benefits.

[Socratov]

Soc that's a very interesting idea, it'd be much like the Fred Astire build except with a divine flavor to it... It's be more like the "Father Fred build"

I'll have to check it out a bit more though.. look for other benefits.

Well, if you are good aligned you can buff a whole lot in there. Though though if you really want to buff your int-mod of followers into the stratosphere you may want to start using spell matrices, woven into the weave. You can prepare 5 spell sin the weave, but if they are spellmatrices you can double them. Then you have a swift action and standard action left (move action used for releasing weave spells) so that could possibly include any decent buffspell on the Cleric list... This will be borrowing a bit from the Mailman, Clericzilla (but in the form of archivist) and will basically do what Warchanter does, but better. bonus points if you can get sonic weapon in there somewhere...

Also, I'd like it if you'd call the build Father Alexander Anderson! (http://hellsing.wikia.com/wiki/Alexander_Anderson) (don't forget the exclamation mark, it's really part of his name...)

[WhamBamSam]

How about Wizard (dip)+Archivist+Mystic Theurge+War Weaver (advancing MT) using Southern Magician to turn divine spells into arcane ones. Now step1: get leadership and boost your Int into the Stratosphere, step 2: cast divine Power through the weave, with Celerity, Righteous Might, Holy Sword and alter fortune by releasing precast spells and casting one using your std. action, Step 3: ??? Step 4: attack enemies always first and crush them Step 6: reward your little minions with bananas.That doesn't work. MT isn't a spellcasting class in and of itself. You can't advance it with other casting PrCs.

You could however run something like Savage Bard 5/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8/War Weaver 5 and get all the nice divine buffs that way.

[XionUnborn01]

How about Wizard (dip)+Archivist+Mystic Theurge+War Weaver (advancing MT) using Southern Magician to turn divine spells into arcane ones. Now step1: get leadership and boost your Int into the Stratosphere, step 2: cast divine Power through the weave, with Celerity, Righteous Might, Holy Sword and alter fortune by releasing precast spells and casting one using your std. action, Step 3: ??? Step 4: attack enemies always first and crush them Step 6: reward your little minions with bananas.


Unless I'm missing something in war weaver, you can't advance MT because it's not an arcane spellcasting class.

[Socratov]

That doesn't work. MT isn't a spellcasting class in and of itself. You can't advance it with other casting PrCs.

You could however run something like Savage Bard 5/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8/War Weaver 5 and get all the nice divine buffs that way.

Which could work just as well with bard 1/archivist 5/Mystic theurge 4/Sublime chord 1/War Weaver 5/Mystic Theurge 4

I think this could be a nice and exciting build. This of course has the added bonus of having access to any divine spell (so long as you can get a scroll of it) and using both the Sorcerer, Wizard and bard spellist (being specifically allowed to take the earlier spells of the bard over the sorcerer/wizard list). Also, I think Lost Tradition wouldn't a over luxurious here...

[Donny_Green]

RAW it seems like for a Mystic thurge/ warweaver. The character would only progress in levels of arcane spell casting during war weaver levels. You'd lose 5 caster levels of divine, and 1 of arcane not counting the loss from crossclassing. Still it might be worth it.

[XionUnborn01]

RAW it seems like for a Mystic thurge/ warweaver. The character would only progress in levels of arcane spell casting during war weaver levels. You'd lose 5 caster levels of divine, and 1 of arcane not counting the loss from crossclassing. Still it might be worth it.

Are you saying that War weaver would only give the arcane class increase for MT? Because that's really not the case at all. MT is not a casting class because the class itsself has no casting to speak of.

[Donny_Green]

Are you saying that War weaver would only give the arcane class increase for MT? Because that's really not the case at all. MT is not a casting class because the class itsself has no casting to speak of.

The class has and increase to both arcane and divine spell casting classes already taken.

Could you maybe explain the rules that you use to come to the conclusion that MT is not a casting class? If at all possible could you share book and page number?

I'm not a doubter just a very neurotic researcher, so this would be alot of help for me to make an educated statement.

[Necroticplague]

The class has and increase to both arcane and divine spell casting classes already taken.

Could you maybe explain the rules that you use to come to the conclusion that MT is not a casting class? If at all possible could you share book and page number?

I'm not a doubter just a very neurotic researcher, so this would be alot of help for me to make an educated statement.

It doesn't have spellcasting of its own, it just progresses casting you already have. So you can't progress "Mystic Theurge" casting, you would just continue progressing either of the base classes.

[XionUnborn01]

The class has and increase to both arcane and divine spell casting classes already taken.

Could you maybe explain the rules that you use to come to the conclusion that MT is not a casting class? If at all possible could you share book and page number?

I'm not a doubter just a very neurotic researcher, so this would be alot of help for me to make an educated statement.

I don't have specific page numbers or anything, though I know this has been discussed here before. Look at it this way; A War Weaver says it increases Spells Per Day and Spells Known of another class and specifically gains no class features the class has.

So if you were able to use it on MT, it wouldn't actually do anything.

[Donny_Green]

I don't have specific page numbers or anything, though I know this has been discussed here before. Look at it this way; A War Weaver says it increases Spells Per Day and Spells Known of another class and specifically gains no class features the class has.

So if you were able to use it on MT, it wouldn't actually do anything.

If anyone has a link to this thread, could they please post it. It sounds like a relatively involved explanation/debate.

[.Zero]

Donny, what you want to do is done with Legacy Champion or Uncanny Trickster, but the huge loss in caster level might never let you reach 9s.

[Donny_Green]

oh no I get it. In all actuality it seems like the UM build is probably the best way for a war weaver. The Fred Astaire build really does everything so much more awesomely.