Psionic Gish... with straight psion.

[Renen]

Just a though... what happens if you do the following:
1) control body on self and then give concentration to psycrystal.
2) Combat transformation shared with psycrystal if needed.(http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827e)
3) Astral construct armor trick to gain constructs str score (that should work right?)

So at lvl 20 you have Int to AC, Str higher than anything (assuming that wearing astral construct as a body armor and mentally commanding it to swing in time with your arm movements), and BAB 20.

[Pyromancer999]

I'm confused. What's the Astral Body Armor trick? Could you post a link to what it is, or at least explain it?

Edit: This doesn't work.

1) The Combat Transformation makes you lose the ability to use powers and the like, which definitely wouldn't allow you to use Astral Construct, and even if you were to cast it before, it is debatable whether or not you would be able to keep commanding the construct, as you'd lose the ability to use powers.

2) The Control Body power only would apply to your body. Even if it were able to be concentrated on by your psicrystal after you lose the ability to use powers after CT, you wouldn't be able to apply that to the construct because the construct is not your body. Yes, it would be wrapped around your body, but when it moves, it's because you command it to move, not because it's actually part of your body.

3) The Construct Power armor would only use its attack bonuses and Ability scores, because once again, even though it's wrapped around your body, the only way it will move is if you command it to, not because it's part of your body, and would not benefit from your ability scores.

4) Let's assume you just do Control Body + Combat Transformation. You'd gain your Int as a bonus to all your damage, but your attack bonus would take a hit because it is only equal to "your base attack bonus + your Intelligence modifier". This means you're losing out on the Str bonus to your attack rolls, regardless of how much you pump it up.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'm confused. What's the Astral Body Armor trick? Could you post a link to what it is, or at least explain it?

Assuming he means the Astral Construct Power Armor (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10279.0) trick, it doesn't work like he thinks it would work. The Astral Construct attacks using its own BAB, attack methods, and actions, and powers buffing the character inside do not buff the Astral Construct. It simply prevents anyone from attacking the character inside the astral construct.

Furthermore, it doesn't actually work at all, due to the Metacreativity discipline limitations (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#metacreativity) that he linked to:
"A creature or object brought into being cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it."

This could still work, just slightly differently:
1. Psicrystal + Share pain so you take half damage from all sources, keep the Psicrystal in a compartment on your person so opponents never have line of sight/effect to it and cannot target it directly or hit it with area effects, and don't forget its Hardness 8.
2. Use Schism (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/schism.htm), preferably with Practiced Manifester and Persistent Power, which should still be able to manifest powers when you're under Combat Transformation.
3. Metamorphosis (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/metamorphosis.htm) into a War Troll (MM3), preferably with Persistent Power, which gives you Str 31, Dex 16, Con 29, +14 natural armor, and Dazing Blow.
4. Control Body on yourself. Normally you would use Solicit Psicrystal so the Psicrystal can spend actions to make your body attack while your own actions are free to take mental actions such as manifesting powers, but Combat Transformation makes this completely unnecessary. Maybe use Control Body, Solicit Psicrystal, Control Body again with the Swift Concentration skill trick, your Schism uses Control Body on you, and you use Control Body again with Linked Power for Combat Transformation. That way your Psicrystal can make your body attack, your Schism can make your body attack, and you can make your body attack twice, all in the same round, every round. Note that you will always use your own BAB and Int bonus even for the one your Psicrystal is concentrating on because you're the one who manifest the power.
5. Inertial Armor and (Persistent) Force Screen and maybe Defensive/Offensive Precognition/Preconscience and Biofeedback and similar with Persistent Power should be more than sufficient, there's no need to even consider using the Astral Construct Power Armor cheese since it won't even be beneficial to what this build does.

You would still be better off as a Fast Movement Ranger 1/ Psion 6/ Slayer 9/ Sanctified Mind 4 and get a +17 BAB with 17th level manifesting at a manifester level of 20th with Practiced Manifester, and use Animal Affinity instead of Combat Transformation.

[Renen]

1) I do cast it last. And just because I lose ability to "manifest powers", doesnt mean I cant give mental directions as a free actions. Hey, how about a direction of "wrap around me and maintain 1mm of distance from my skin at all times".

2) Control Body CAN be concentrated on by a crystal. Its a known trick. And it DOES only apply to my body, main question which I actually doubt is if the construct's strength can be substituted for mine.

3) Im the one who is attacking, construct is just adding the strength. Though I am starting to think that this can be just done w/o construct and with pumping INT.

4) Yeh fair point so...
Lets see how much to hit we can have by lvl 20 w/o construct.
20 BAB
Then boosting INT:
4 from base INT
1 from Race
2.5 from levels (we get 5 by lvl 20 right? I can never remember)
3 from Headband of INT
2.5 from Tome of INT
So thats 33 to hit at lvl 20.
Its not bad is it? Thats not counting maybe PaO into something with hight base INT, or other shananigans



"A creature or object brought into being cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it."
Oh it ARRIVES at an open space, and is then told to come hug me like a body armor. But I take the point, the construct part was doubted even by me, and is now completely irrelephant.

Question: Does it's hardness actually apply to share pain's damage?

[Feint's End]

At least in Pathfinder a single classed Psion gysh works pretty well.

>Be an Egoist and make strength your highest score.
>Get Claws of the Beast through EK or UT (and Bite of the Wolf if you can/want)
>Add Minor Metamorphosis + later on the whole Metamorphosis line
>Add size increases, buffs etc.
>Use Share Pain + Vigor to become tanky
>???
>Profit

You will come to around 10+ natural attacks at level 20 (Claws of the Beast, Bite of the Wolf, 3 attacks from Metamorphosis, 4 from Form of Doom) ... you will have a high strength score and high to hit and still plenty of other powers left for everything else you might want to do.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Question: Does it's hardness actually apply to share pain's damage?

Yes, Share Pain does not specify that it bypasses hardness, so it doesn't. Also note that regardless of the original attack's damage type (sonic, adamantine weapon), the Psicrystal is still taking damage from Share Pain so its hardness will still apply.

[Flickerdart]

Hey, how about a direction of "wrap around me and maintain 1mm of distance from my skin at all times".
The construct is not amorphous and can't actually do that.

[Renen]

At least in Pathfinder a single classed Psion gysh works pretty well.

>Be an Egoist and make strength your highest score.
>Get Claws of the Beast through EK or UT (and Bite of the Wolf if you can/want)
>Add Minor Metamorphosis + later on the whole Metamorphosis line
>Add size increases, buffs etc.
>Use Share Pain + Vigor to become tanky
>???
>Profit

You will come to around 10+ natural attacks at level 20 (Claws of the Beast, Bite of the Wolf, 3 attacks from Metamorphosis, 4 from Form of Doom) ... you will have a high strength score and high to hit and still plenty of other powers left for everything else you might want to do.

Here I am talking more about 3.5, simply because while PF does have some broken stuff, it got gimped so much that the flaw is either painfully obvious, or not worth it.
What I am saying is that PF is like Apple (Kid friendly and nice to look at), and 3.5 is like PC (Clunky and has viruses, but soooo many things to play with).


The construct is not amorphous and can't actually do that.

It cant? Heck, it can just be hollow on the inside and a hole to climb through. Or manifested around me (on the ground that can totally support it).

[Flickerdart]

It cant? Heck, it can just be hollow on the inside and a hole to climb through. Or manifested around me (on the ground that can totally support it).
You still fall afoul of the rule that two creatures cannot share a space except when explicitly overruled by a more specific rule (such as Swallow Whole, or riding a mount).

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

It cant? Heck, it can just be hollow on the inside and a hole to climb through. Or manifested around me (on the ground that can totally support it).

The original trick is to manifest it so it appears around you, but as I already pointed out, "It must arrive in an open location" and a space occupied by a creature is not an open location.

[Feint's End]

Here I am talking more about 3.5, simply because while PF does have some broken stuff, it got gimped so much that the flaw is either painfully obvious, or not worth it.
What I am saying is that PF is like Apple (Kid friendly and nice to look at), and 3.5 is like PC (Clunky and has viruses, but soooo many things to play with).



It cant? Heck, it can just be hollow on the inside and a hole to climb through. Or manifested around me (on the ground that can totally support it).

Well pretty much the same stuff works on 3.5 too but you transform for real.

Also I tend to disagree. Generally you are right but pathfinder psionics is much better thought out than 3.5 is and dsp has a punch of well designed classes and mechanics.

[Rubik]

There's a power in -- I want to say Hyperconscious, but it may be in Untapped Potential -- that lets you wear an astral construct as power armor. So there's that.

[Renen]

I think i might know what you speak of, and I remember that being less than optimal.