(3.5) Need help making a lvl 11 optimized build

[D4rkh0rus]

So, basically, I like making builds and stuff... but when it comes to dealing damage at lower levels, Im stumped. I know there are shocktrooper builds, and warblade-wielding-colossal weapons for much emotion and pain. but, I like having a skilled chassis (by this I mean skills. Yes, I know that skills can be replaced by magic, But My DM likes to grab and make combat a free for all, and then, lock us up in more or less a world spanning anti-magic field until the next combat encounter. D:).

Anyways, the campaign starts at lvl 8, and would go on until around lvl 14


-The first being no more than 1 lvl in cleric, wizard, etc. I don't wanna use casting classes more than what is absolutely needed. (so wizard 1 for abrupt jaunt, cleric 1 for feats etc. Also, only one of these, only 1 level in cleric, wizard, sorcerer, archivist or druid at most.). I want to make a martial character, without using the common magical spells that pump BaB.

-I'd want it to go online at lvl 11, by this, I mean that whatever mechanic its using to deal damage, comes online at lvl 11 at the most, better if its under that mark. For example, a mechanic would be the Iaijutsu Master's ability to add its Cha to each Iaijutsu focus die, or the Telflammar shadowlord's ability to full attack after teleporting. now this seems simple, but below is the reason why I find it hard.

-The build has to include at least 3 factotum levels. this is mainly a flavor thing, But it has to be there.

-The build has to have Int as an important Stat, mainly for the skills I wanna keep up. Better if it also has Dex as a high priority stat as well.

-The build has to deal decent damage for its level (after the mechanic it uses comes online). I dont mean Shocktrooper battlejumper screaming death kind of damage, but close. at least half?


Other than that I don't think im putting up any other limitation.
Sooooo, what can you guys throw at me? any ideas at least? maybe some lesser known class?

Thanks for reading, by the way. :P

[eggynack]

Why not just make a factotum 20? That seems to fit in pretty well with what you want, between the three factotum level minimum, the desired level range (8 is a big level for the factotum), the skill monkey desire, and the int focus. Just pick up some font of inspiration (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070606), maybe do the whole iajatsu focus/gnomish quickrazor thing, and do reasonably well for yourself. You don't deal crazy damage, but you do enough, and there's casting, but it's hardly a focus. It just seems to be the way to go.

[Irk]

No problem. I just have one question: what kind of build?
Do you want to do archery, skirmishing, dual wielding, sneak attacking, some combination? I need more information. Just as an example, I suppose I'll leave a sample build here.

human Factotum 8/Martial Monk 2/Warblade 1

FEATS
Martial Stance (Crushing Weight of the Mountain)
Knowledge Devotion
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Ranged Pin
Greater Manyshot
Font of Inspiration x3

You have 11 inspiration points and can launch arrows that deal 1d8+2d6+1.5STR thanks to Ranged Pin + Crushing Weight of the Mountain and Knowledge Devotion + PBS is an extra +6. You get INT to that grapple check thanks to Brains over Brawn, and expending all your IP would give you 3 attacks + 2d6 sneak attack for 3d8+8d6+24+4.5STR in a round plus a move action. You also get spells and some of those Diamond Mind things to shore up bad saves.

This is not an amazing build, but it could maybe be versatile.

I work better if I know what kind of build you want. Shadowpouncer? Iaijutsu Focus? Dragonfire Inspiration? A combination of two of those (I think I would need levels 12-15 to do all 3). Give me a more specific idea, and I'd love to help.

EDIT: I could also do a level 8 combination of Iaijutsu and Dragonfire Inspiration, but shadowpounce always comes on at level 11. I'd also be willing to do both.

[D4rkh0rus]

No problem. I just have one question: what kind of build?
Do you want to do archery, skirmishing, dual wielding, sneak attacking, some combination? I need more information.

Ah yes, forgot that, Melee, dual wielding, all forms of dual wielding (even the EWM x2 to one handed power attack with dragonsplits combo) or 1 handed (not 2h).
that's the only condition, afterwards, gimme your best.

Preferably shadowpouncing. problem is the feats, not only shadowlord needs feats, but twf needs feats, etc.
And theres also the whole "methods to constantly teleport during a round"

[Red Fel]

Ah yes, forgot that, Melee, dual wielding, all forms of dual wielding (even the EWM x2 to one handed power attack with dragonsplits combo) or 1 handed (not 2h).
that's the only condition, afterwards, gimme your best.

Warblade, and done. Damage-dealing mechanic (maneuvers) comes online at level 1. Works well with any kind of weaponry, literally - any weapon-specific feat can be swapped out for another weapon. One-handed, two-handed, dual-wielding, you name it. Has solid Int-synergy with Factotum. Shocktrooper etc. not required for good outcome. Warblade is a melee class with a comfortably high floor; there's not much you can do to mess it up, and it's flexible enough to adjust to multiple play styles.

Now, if you want shadowpouncing, that's a different mechanic with different issues. First, the two big sources of Shadow Pounce are Telflammar Shadowlord and Crinti Shadow Marauder. Frankly, Telflammar is a much bigger pain to get into than Crinti, so let's assume Crinti. You need two feats and some skill ranks, so your earliest Crinti level can be level 6, which nets you Shadow Pounce at 10. A Totemist meets the Dimension Door prereq of Shadow Pounce easily, with the Blink Shirt soulmeld. Additionally, anyone can use the soulmeld with the Shape Soulmeld feat, although a Totemist can take great advantage of the full attack action with an arsenal of natural weapons. A Warlock can Dimension Door with Flee the Scene, but he gets that at level 6, which pushes back your progression. Also note that both Warlocks and Totemists are missing some of the skills that Crinti has as a prereq, so that pushes your progression back anyway.

Swordsage might be your answer. At level 5, you have an IL of 3; at IL 2 you can take Shadow Jaunt, the first of the Shadow Hand teleport-maneuvers. Since each of these maneuvers is a teleport, each qualifies for Shadow Pounce. If Swordsage's recovery mechanic bothers you, you could take Warblade levels instead, and take Martial Study to gain the relevant maneuvers; however, since Warblade lacks the necessary class skills, you'll be pushing that progression back. (Swordsage gets the relevant skills, though. It just has a rubbish recovery mechanic.)

[Irk]

No problem, lets do this. I'll have to make it level 11 due to the shadowpouncing bit, though.

Human Factotum 3/Swordsage 4/Telflammar Shadowlord 4.

Important Manuevers
Sapphire Nightmare Blade
Cloak of Deception
Shadow Jaunt
Mighty Throw
Diamond Mind save counters


FEATS
Martial Stance: Assassin's Stance (+2d6 Sneak Attack)
Shape Soulmeld (Blink Shirt)
Two-Weapon Fighting
Craven
Blind Fight
Midnight Dodge
Mobility (From the +1 Armor enhancement)
Spring Attack

As spells you get Invisibility and Haste. Your spellcasting is based on INT, so you that's some synergy. Lets look at combat.

Mighty Throw is a trip attack done at +4+STR+INT thanks to Factotum.
Cloak of Deception makes you invisible, as does the spell Invisibility.
Each turn, you can use Haste+Shadow Jaunt+Blink Shirt to get two full attacks, each with 4 attacks, for 8 attacks total. These will be on flat footed opponents due to Cloak of Deception, and you get substantial attack bonuses from Weapon Focus (Discipline Focus) and Haste. But that's not all. At a MINIMUM (if you invest max ranks in Iaijutusu, which you should), you deal an extra +2d6. Assassin's Stance adds +2d6, Craven adds +9.
Thus, you deal an extra +4d6+9. With 8 attacks, that's +32d6+72 extra damage. In total, around 40d6+72 damage in one round, and you can do trip attacks from Might Throw, you have good saves from Diamond Mind, GREAT skills, and you can do a Sapphire Nightmare Blade + Iaijutus Focus combo if you feel too strong.

To summarize: average of 212 damage per round, and a full skillmonkey chassis.
That's 129% of the average CR 11 HP and 92.9% of the maximum.

Have fun.

EDIT: Crinti Shadow marauder may be better or worse. You forgo one level of Swordsage, Haste, and Invisibility, but get +2d6 sudden strike, an likely Shadow Blade and Knowledge Devotion as well as perhaps Improved TWF. It could work, but I prefer keeping Haste, it makes things easier and more reliable.

EDIT2: to really make my idea work, you need two more things: A skillful Gnomish Quickrazor and Bracers of the Hunter. I also recommend Greater Truedeath Crystals.Along with the armor, this is 48500 GP.

Aaaand it does not work because Shadow Jaunt and Blink Shirt are standard actions. Hold on, working on a better one.

[D4rkh0rus]

well, 2 levels of totemist gives a move action teleport, but shadow jaunt is still a 1 use per encounter ability...

[Irk]

Human Factotum 3/Totemist 2/Swordsage 1/Martial Monk 1/Telflammar Shadowlord 4 could also work.

MANEUVERS
Diamond Mind Counters
Mighty Throw
Cloak of Deception if you can take swordsage after Factotum 3/Totemist 2 and have it count as IL 3


FEATS
Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance)
Multiattack
Blind Fight
Mobility(+1 Armor Enhancement)
Midnight Dodge
Mobility
Spring Attack
Craven
Knowledge Devotion

This is good because you get the Blink Shirt from Totemist and Girallon Arms bound to Totme Chakra. Attacking with the secondary attacks is only -1 due to Multiattack and Incarnum investment. You have to rely on the Shadowlord's invisibility or hiding (both of which are excellent options). With Haste up, You should have an item of Shadow Stride so that you can make two full attacks a round, 6 attacks on each, 12 total. These will deal 1d4(claws)+3d6(Sneak attack with Hunter's Bracers)+9(Craven)+5(Knowledge Devotion)+1(Essentia). That's 6d4+24d6+54+30 on each full attack for 12d4+48d6+168 total. That's and average of 366, enough to kill the CR 11 opponent with the most HP in one round. Also, you don't have to recharge Shadow Jaunt, because it's from an item. That's brutal. Of course, you are attacking with claws instead of swords, so I hope that's okay, but there you go.

I also recommend Wands with Vinestrike, Golemstrike, and Gravestrike that you can switch in situationally

But wait! there's more! What if you acquired a Wand of Stand and put in a Wand Chamber. That would give you an Immediate action teleport for 6d4+24d6+84 whenever you want. Tack it on to the 366 damage from above and you've got 549 damage. That's 134% of the average CR 20 HP and 63% of the maximum, that being the Tarrasque. Did I mention you have PHENOMENAL skills? Well, you do.This is a pretty neat-o build. When recharging maneuvers, you could deal 186 damage with Stand or just regain and let your Diamond Mind bolstered saves do the work Go to town.


I hope this helps.

[D4rkh0rus]

With Haste up, You should have an item of Shadow Stride so that you can make two full attacks a round, 6 attacks on each, 12 total.

From what I remember, Shadow stride is a lvl 5 maneouver. the maneouver items dont let you put a lvl 5 maneouver on them... and even if they did... it only once per encounter... how do you fix that?

Also, how do you get assassin's stance before lvl 9 with only 1 SS level?

[D4rkh0rus]

are there any ways to get 2d6 Sneak attack before level 8 without taking 2 lvls of Sneak attack classes?

[AlsoD]

are there any ways to get 2d6 Sneak attack before level 8 without taking 2 lvls of Sneak attack classes?

The builds above are using Assassin's Stance to qualify. Failing that there's Arcane Trickster and the Daggerspell PrCs (among others) which advance casting while giving sneak attack.

[D4rkh0rus]

The builds above are using Assassin's Stance to qualify. Failing that there's Arcane Trickster and the Daggerspell PrCs (among others) which advance casting while giving sneak attack.

but how do you qualify with assassin's stance by lvl 8? or does Martial stance let you choose Assassin's stance before you could realistically pick it?