[HELP] 21ᵗʰ level char.

[Garou666]

Hi people ! i'm doing some characters :smallsmile:

i can use all 3.5 books without Setting ( Like FR. )
So

Can u help show me your builds.

21th lvl
700,000 G.P

Informations:

I think we will challenge some Evil guys ( Mind-Controllers, and some great undeads)

I want to give some damage, but i wanna to control the battle camp too!
I think to use Exalted deeds to the combo :smallcool:
a Good guy will be good !
I like Str bases characters.
Like Water-orc.
ps: i Hate elves.
:smallamused:

[Crake]

I'm gonna throw this in there early, with that much information you aren't gonna get much help. You're gonna need to give people more information to work with.

[Wacky89]

Wild Half-Minotaur Dragonborn Water-Orc
stat adjustments: +18 str, +8 Con, -4 Dex, -6 int, -2 wis, -4 cha

Lion Totem Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 1, Fighter 4, War Hulk 1, Frenzied Berserker 10, War Hulk 4

Feats: Power Attack, Shock Trooper, Leap Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Quick Reconniter, Iron Will, Endurance, Steadfast Determination

Belt of Magnificence +6 Belt of Battle added (212k), Cloak of Resistance +5 (25k), Valerous enchanted weapon of some sort, cant remember alot by memory, Manual of bodily strength +5 (137,5k), Manual of gainful exercise +5 (137,5k)

[Larkas]

You're obviously a fellow Brazilian. A few pointers to help you with you in this English-speaking board:

-It's not 20°, it's 20ᵗʰ;

-"Cenário" does not translate into "Scenery" in this case, it translates into "Setting";

-Nitpick: "Forgotten" might be an understandable shorthand of "Forgotten Realms", but in English-speaking boards the preferred abbreviation is usually "FR";

-The "Tormenta" campaign setting is really only known in Brazil;

-Nitpick: in English, the punctuation mark used to separate thousands is the comma (,), not the period (.). The right way to spell seven hundred thousand in English would then be "700,000";

-"P.O." ("peças de ouro") translates into "gp" (gold pieces).

This might sound a bit harsh, but try to write more intelligibly. People won't put the effort into helping you if you don't at least try to write in a way they might understand. I only understood everything you said because I'm a Portuguese-speaker myself (and Brazilian to boot).

Anyways, I'm with Crake here. We need more information to help you. What do you want (and expect) your character to do? You want a Str-focused build, but do you want a damage dealer? A battlefield controller? A gish? How much cheese is acceptable? Furthermore, you do know the discrepancy between casters and non-casters in 3.5, right? At 21ˢᵗ level the game pretty much unravels, as Epic Spellcasting comes into play. What is your party composition? Which enemies do you expect to face?

[Garou666]

You're obviously a fellow Brazilian. A few pointers to help you with you in this English-speaking board:

-It's not 20°, it's 20ᵗʰ;

-"Cenário" does not translate into "Scenery" in this case, it translates into "Setting";

-Nitpick: "Forgotten" might be an understandable shorthand of "Forgotten Realms", but in English-speaking boards the preferred abbreviation is usually "FR";

-The "Tormenta" campaign setting is really only known in Brazil;

-Nitpick: in English, the punctuation mark used to separate thousands is the comma (,), not the period (.). The right way to spell seven hundred thousand in English would then be "700,000";

-"P.O." ("peças de ouro") translates into "gp" (gold pieces).

This might sound a bit harsh, but try to write more intelligibly. People won't put the effort into helping you if you don't at least try to write in a way they might understand. I only understood everything you said because I'm a Portuguese-speaker myself (and Brazilian to boot).

Anyways, I'm with Crake here. We need more information to help you. What do you want (and expect) your character to do? You want a Str-focused build, but do you want a damage dealer? A battlefield controller? A gish? How much cheese is acceptable? Furthermore, you do know the discrepancy between casters and non-casters in 3.5, right? At 21ˢᵗ level the game pretty much unravels, as Epic Spellcasting comes into play. What is your party composition? Which enemies do you expect to face?

Hey! Thank you i'll do it !! :smallsmile:

[Larkas]

Hey, no worries, I'm just glad to be of help!

Now, to give you some concrete advice, I think that, with your preferences, you can't really go wrong with a Sorcadin! The standard 20th level Sorcadin build is Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 4/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 8, which nets you 18th level Sorcerer casting and +16 BAB. This elegant build transitions exceptionally well into 21st level: according to the Epic Attack Bonus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/basics.htm#epicAttackBonus) rules, you don't gain further attacks from a high BAB after 20th level. However, since you were able to net +16 BAB at 20th, and hence the maximum number of attacks from BAB (four), that rule doesn't hinder you at all! Furthermore, with some clever skill point placing, you may net Epic Spellcasting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#epicSpellcasting) as soon as 21st level (assuming, of course, your DM is okay with that level of cheese).

For a tentative 21st level Sorcadin build, let's go with the following:

Race: Human
Ability Scores: 14/12/14/10/8/16 (assuming a 28 point buy)



Level

Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Feats
Class Features


1st

Paladin

+1

+2

+0

+0
Power Attack, Travel Devotion
Aura of good, detect evil, smite evil 1/day


2nd

Paladin

+2

+3

+0

+0

Divine grace, lay on hands


3rd

Sorcerer

+2

+3

+0

+2
Arcane Preparation
Summon familiar


4th

Sorcerer

+3

+3

+0

+3




5th

Sorcerer

+3

+4

+1

+3




6th

Sorcerer

+4

+4

+1

+4
Combat Casting



7th

Spellsword

+5

+6

+1

+6

Ignore spell failure 10%


8th

Abjurant Champion

+6/+1

+6

+1

+8

Abjurant Armor, Extended Abjuration


9th

Abjurant Champion

+7/+2

+6

+1

+9
Earth Bloodline
Swift Abjuration


10th

Abjurant Champion

+8/+3

+7

+2

+9




11th

Abjurant Champion

+9/+4

+7

+2

+10

Arcane Boost


12th

Abjurant Champion

+10/+5

+7

+2

+10
Minor Shapeshift
Martial Arcanist


13th

Sacred Exorcist

+10/+5

+7

+2

+12

Exorcism, turn undead


14th

Sacred Exorcist

+11/+6/+1

+7

+2

+13

Detect evil, resist possession


15th

Sacred Exorcist

+12/+7/+2

+8

+3

+13
Versatile Spellcaster
Chosen foe +1


16th

Sacred Exorcist

+13/+8/+3

+8

+3

+14

Dispel evil 1/week


17th

Sacred Exorcist

+13/+8/+3

+8

+3

+14

Consecrated presence


18th

Sacred Exorcist

+14/+9/+4

+9

+4

+15
Arcane Strike
Chosen foe +2


19th

Sacred Exorcist

+15/+10/+5

+9

+4

+15

Dispel evil 2/week


20th

Sacred Exorcist

+16/+11/+6/+1

+9

+4

+16

Holy aura 1/day


21st

Sacred Exorcist

+16/+11/+6/+1 (+1E)

+9

+4

+16
Epic Spellcasting
Chosen foe +3



All your attribute score bonuses should go to Charisma, which means that, at level 20, the score should naturally be 21 (that is, before any other increases).

I tried to keep this build as simple as possible, but seeing as it can be a little overwhelming to someone unfamiliar with the concept, a few explanations are in order:

-Divine Grace adds your Charisma modifier to all your saves. Add to that the fact that Sorcerer spells are based on the same ability and you have yourself a reason to pump your Cha as high as possible!

-Arcane Preparation is needed to give you access to Sanctified spells (from the Book of Exalted Deeds). This is important because your main source of AC will be luminous armor/greater luminous armor (which, by the way, are affected by the Abjurant Champion's class features). What's better: due to the way Sanctified spells work, you don't need to spend your spells known on them: any prepared spellcaster can access them automatically!

-The drawback from Earth Bloodline may seem a little harsh, but it really isn't. Most important spells that you may think have the Air descriptor actually do not: fly, for example, doesn't, and as such you can still cast it!

-Minor Shapeshift is a nifty little reserve feat. Its main use for you will be Vigor, which gives you temporary hit points equal to your HD as a swift action as long as you have any polymorph spell of 4th level or higher known, and any way to cast it. This is exceptional for a Sorcerer: you don't prepare spells, and as long as you have the potential to cast the needed spell, you can use the reserve feat! This means that, as long as you have at least one spell slot of the spell's level or higher, you may activate the feat!

-Versatile Spellcaster is pretty straightforward in its use. One thing that may not be readily apparent, however, is its combination with Minor Shapeshift: as long as you have two 3rd level spell slots (or four 2nd level, etc.), you can still activate the latter!

-Epic Spellcasting is the single most powerful ability in the game. Note that I put it in the table, but haven't actually calculated the skill points needed to get it, specially considering all the PrCs pre-requisites. If it's actually not achievable with the proposed setup, you can move things around a little (such as moving that 12 from Dex to Int, for example), or postpone getting it at 24th level, getting some other (probably Epic) feat in its place.

Now, for spells. Your battlefield controlling will be coming from them, so choose them accordingly. Good spells in this regard are, for example, grease, the wall line of spells, solid fog, resilient sphere, and forcecage. Note that I'm not telling you to get all of them: you are first and foremost a Sorcerer, so mind your limited spells known. Get those you feel will be useful in most situations. (Myself, I'd probably get grease, black tentacles and wall of stone and be done with it.) You'll also need a spell to power Minor Shapeshift, and you can't really go wrong with polymorph here. You'll also need an abjuration spell to enter Abjurant Champion: grab shield and don't look back. Aside from all that, you're a gish, so focus on spells to buff yourself, but take care to not take redundant spells (again, you're a sorcerer, don't go spending more than one spell known on spells that do more or less the same thing). Also, keep in mind all the Sanctified spells open to you, not to mention those given by Earth Bloodline. If, after getting all the buff spells you wanted you still have a few slots to fill, then feel free to get other kinds of spells (utility, damage dealing, etc).

Regarding items, you'll want a few:

-Rod of Bodily Restoration (3,100 gp): this will counter the drawbacks from (greater) luminous armor. Do note that those drawbacks only come into play after the spell expires. We're talking 42 hours at 21st level, so even if you don't get this, you should be fine.

-Manual of Bodily Health/Gainful Exercise/Quickness of Action and Tome of Leadership and Influence +5 (137,500 gp each): these will all give you a permanent +5 bonus to Con/Str/Dex/Cha. Can't really go wrong here. (You can probably make do with only +4 to Str, Dex and Con, though, and that will cost you "only" 110,000 gp each.)

-Belt of Magnificence +6 (200,000 gp): +6 to all your ability scores. If you can get a custom magic item, you could probably make do with a (cheaper) item that gives that bonus to Con, Str, Dex and Cha only.

-You don't need armor (your AC will be coming from shield and luminous armor, and the latter won't stack with armor bonuses from real armor), but you can wear one with up to 10% arcane spell failure (which you'll ignore thanks to that level of Spellsword) to benefit from armor enhancements. As such, a simple masterwork leather armor (160 gp) to stack enchantments on might be a good idea.

And that's pretty much it, really. Remember that you can't spend more than 1/4 your wealth on any single item, and go shopping! Of course, don't forget to get some awesome weapon. :smalltongue:

Well, hope this can be of use!

[Garou666]

ok guy i need to say my DM allow epic feats in 18th level, so 18th+ can pick up :smallconfused:

[Larkas]

Most Epic feats are rather weak, actually. The best are Epic Spellcasting and Improved Spell Capacity. You don't qualify for either at 18th, unfortunately.

[Gavinfoxx]

Also, it's 21st and 20th.

Twenty-first and Twentieth.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Human, gain Saint (BoED) at 6th and buy off the level adjustment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) which cost 28,000 xp. You'll have an Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm) which means Invest Life Energy kicked in before you paid that and you gained an extra 10% of it before it was paid. A 21st level character has at least 210,000 xp, which means you would have had at least 21,000 extra, so you'll be no more than 7,000 xp behind the rest of the party when you begin play because of this, though you'll want to spend some on magic item creation. Since you'll be getting a 10% bonus to all future xp, you should catch back up and even pull ahead in no time.

Go Druid 10/ Master of Radiance 1/ Contemplative 1/ Radiant Servant 1/ Druid 8+, with Knowledge Devotion to gain Knowledge: Religion as a class skill. You'll gain Turn Undead from Master of Radiance, the Sun domain from Contemplative, and Extra Greater Turning from Radiant Servant. You can cast Bone Talisman (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040721a) to be able to Turn Undead at your Druid caster level plus Master of Radiance and Radiant Servant levels plus the effects of items that increase your effective level for undead turning, such as a Phylactery of Undead Turning (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#phylacteryofUndeadTurning). You can use a Greater Turning when you activate one of those to automatically destroy any undead that would have been turned.

You can put Unguent of Timelessness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#unguentofTimelessness) on the spell focus for that so its passage of time will be 365 times slower, which makes the spell last 365 times longer or 60 hours and 50 minutes per caster level. At a caster level of 20th with a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend each of those will last a little over 101 days. Buy 25 Unguent of Timelessness and put it on two hundred Bone Talisman spell foci, a spell focus can be reused indefinitely and the unguent never wears off. You can number them and thread them onto a loop of string like beads, with the longest-remaining duration at one end and the shortest-remaining duration at the other. When you use one, use it from the shortest-duration end and then move that bone to the top and put it on a twist in the loop so it stays separate. Cast that twice every day (prepare once 2nd level Pearl of Power) with a Lesser Rod of Extend, always on ones that were used or on the two with the shortest duration remaining, and move them to the end of the row with the longest-remaining duration. You'll always have 200 uses of Turn Undead available at the start of a given adventure.

Get two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) for two extra feats, I'd make them Love of Nature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?258440-The-quot-Best-quot-Flaws#30) (DC 14) and Vulnerable. Your feats need to include three exalted feats, make them Nymph's Kiss at 1st, Exalted Companion at 3rd, and Exalted Wild Shape at 6th. Your flaws can show up at any character level, as long as they're taken 'when creating a character' as the rules state. Use your flaws to get Item Familiar and Knowledge Devotion at 3rd. You'll need Extra Turning at 12th, and you'll want Extend Spell, Natural Spell, Persistent Spell, and DMM: Persistent from Human, 9th, 15th, and 18th. Your 21st level feat should be Epic Spellcasting. Say you retrained a feat per PHB2 Chapter 8 on gaining level 20 to trade Knowledge Devotion for Natural Bond, you cannot retrain a feat and skill points at the same level so you'll still have max ranks in Knowledge: Religion as a class skill, you'll just pay cross-class cost to put ranks in it on future Druid levels. If you an retrain your exalted feats after gaining the Saint template, then you should definitely do so, especially considering you won't lose the skill points gained from Nymph's Kiss, though keeping it helps your turning checks.

Something to note about Exalted Wild Shape: "You can also turn into a celestial version of any animal you could normally transform into.... You gain the extraordinary and supernatural abilities of the creature." A given creature's special abilities (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/specialAbilities.htm) include both special attacks and special qualities, so using this feat to take the form of a Celestial version of a given animal gives you all of that creature's extraordinary and supernatural special attacks and special qualities, including those of the base creature. This basically means you'll get the animal's low-light vision and scent, as well as the darkvision, resistances, DR, and SR of the celestial creature template, plus having DR/Magic means your natural attacks overcome DR/Magic. Also remember that you'll keep everything Saint gives you when Wild Shaped, which makes those resistances redundant due to immunities, but the SR is still decent at this level and being able to use a Blink Dog's Dimension Door ability is useful.

Your animal companion should be a Dire Eagle from Races of Stone, which is a 'level -3' companion, with the Celestial Creature template from Exalted Companion at another 'level -1' so you'll count as a Druid 17 for its benefits considering Natural Bond. It will be smart and good-aligned, so it should have Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty. You're beginning play with less character wealth than you should have (975,000 gp at level 21 according to DMG p209) so you can't afford to buy gear for both yourself and your animal companion. Its other feats should hopefully include the Mage Slayer line from CA.

Gear needs to include the following items:
Ephod of Authority (MIC, 800 gp)
Phylactery of Undead Turning (DMG, 11,000 gp)
Scepter of the Netherworld (MIC, 9,000 gp)
Rod of Defiance (MIC, 7,312 gp)
Reliquary Holy Symbol (MIC, 1,000 gp)
Night Sticks (LM, 7,500 gp each)
Standard Strand of Prayer Beads with the Bead of Smiting removed (DMG, 9,000 gp, the DMG overrules the SRD in D&D games per primary source rules)
Monk's Belt (DMG, 13,000 gp)
Lesser Metamagic Rods of Extend (DMG, 3,000 gp each)
Metamagic Rod of Extend (DMG, 11,000 gp)
25 Unguent of Timelessness on Bone Talisman foci (DMG, 3,750 gp)
2nd level Pearl of Power (DMG, 4,000 gp)
6th level Pearl of Power (DMG, 36,000 gp)
+6 Enhancement bonus to Wis added to a head or neck item (MIC p234, 36,000 gp)
+6 Enhancement bonus to Cha added to a head or shoulders/cloak item (MIC p234, 36,000 gp)
Wilding Clasps (MIC, 4,000 gp each)
Shax's Indispensable Haversack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?148101-3-x-Shax-s-Indispensible-Haversack-%28Equipment-Handbook%29) (varies)
+1 Wild Soulfire Leather Armor (DMG, BoED, 64,160 gp, it melds into your form when Wild Shaped and even though it still provides an armor bonus, you're not counted as wearing armor)
Gemstone of Heavy Fortification, NPC spellcasting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#spell) Limited Wish to embed it (Draconomicon, PHB, 37,410 gp total)
Ring of Enduring Arcana (CM, 6,000 gp)
Ring of Freedom of Movement (DMG, 40,000 gp)
Banner of the Storm's Eye with backpack frame (MIC, 15,005 gp)
Third Eye: Conceal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/universalItems.htm#conceal) (XPH, 120,000 gp)

I count a total of 460,437 for all of the above, not counting any Night Sticks, Lesser Rods of Extend, or Wilding Clasps. You have 239,563 to spend among those, get at least two Lesser Metamagic Rods, enough Wilding Clasps for any items you're going to use more often than 1/day when buffing, and get enough Night Sticks to DMM: Persist all the buffs you want to have (Sirine's Grace, Bite of the Werebear, Stormrage, Greater Magic Fang, etc.). The 6th level Pearl of Power is so you can cast Energy Immunity (SC) twice from only one spell slot, covering fire and sonic since Saint makes you immune to the other three energy types. Also cast Greater Luminous Armor (BoED) and Superior Resistance (SC) every day. Note that an item with a Wilding Clasp on it 'continues to function' when you Wild Shape, which includes both magical and mundane functions. One function of a belt is to hold other items, so a Wilding Clasp on your Monk's Belt means you can put other items on your belt (string of Bone Talisman beads, rods, etc.) and none of those will need a Wilding Clasp of its own.

Use the Bead of Karma from the Strand of Prayer Beads when casting your buffs and Bone Talismans. That will put it at a caster level of 24 when you're level 21, and you'll get an extra +8 to your effective Cleric level whenever you turn undead, and the Rod of Defiance gives all undead within 20 ft. -4 to their effective HD for resisting turn undead. With a decent turning check roll, your greater turning will automatically destroy undead of up to 37 HD.

[Nettlekid]

I've been brainstorming 21st level characters for a while since a friend of mine plans to DM a campaign of that level soon. My first advice is that the single extra level can make a huge difference. Some classes are written off for level 20 builds, but become viable at level 21. Master Transmogrifist is the perfect example. People say Shapechange is better than all of MT, and they're right, despite the amazing abilities MT gets for Polymorphers. But at level 21, with no other lost caster levels, you CAN take all of MT and still get Shapechange. That makes you amazingly formidable. Swiftblade is the same way. Gishy builds like Jade Phoenix Mages or Ruby Knight Vindicators become more viable with a little more wiggle room. You can get the capstone of some classes and stick in a level dip, like Cleric 1 into a Knight 20 (Loyal Beyond Death is pretty cool) or Exemplar to aid a Truenamer build if you want that true-nickname and at-will Gate. You can get two more non-initiator levels into a ToB build, which aids in something like a Master of Nine. You said you hate Elves, but a Revenant Blade/Eternal Blade makes a blending machine. Similarly, if your DM doesn't use LA buyoff, you can build a level 20 character with LA +1 as though it was a normal build. Goliaths and Thri-Kreen become a lot more viable then. Those are some tips I have.