Undead Leadership and Necropolitans

[Yogibear41]

Is there any reason that someone couldn't have necropolitans with pc or npc class levels instead of the standard zombies/skeletons for followers when using undead leadership?

[OldTrees1]

It is common practice to have such Necropolitians as followers.

[sideswipe]

for the cohort a necropoliton with pc classes would be fine.

but followers are either said to be only npc's or it is heavily implied. so i guess you could allow your "level 2" followers which would normally be 2hd zombies or skeletons instead be a 1hd necropoliton with 1 npc class level.

i say this because the necropoliton has to lose 1000xp to become one, this is essentially the whole of gaining level 2.
so a level 1 necropoliton npc = level 2 living npc = 2hd zombie.

as the cohort, it would just be the general allowed level of the cohort - 1000xp.

[unseenmage]

for the cohort a necropoliton with pc classes would be fine.

but followers are either said to be only npc's or it is heavily implied. so i guess you could allow your "level 2" followers which would normally be 2hd zombies or skeletons instead be a 1hd necropoliton with 1 npc class level.

i say this because the necropoliton has to lose 1000xp to become one, this is essentially the whole of gaining level 2.
so a level 1 necropoliton npc = level 2 living npc = 2hd zombie.

as the cohort, it would just be the general allowed level of the cohort - 1000xp.

In the 3.0 DMG Followers were explicitly NPC classes only.

This text didn't make it into the 3.5 DMG.

[Yogibear41]

for the cohort a necropoliton with pc classes would be fine.

but followers are either said to be only npc's or it is heavily implied. so i guess you could allow your "level 2" followers which would normally be 2hd zombies or skeletons instead be a 1hd necropoliton with 1 npc class level.

i say this because the necropoliton has to lose 1000xp to become one, this is essentially the whole of gaining level 2.
so a level 1 necropoliton npc = level 2 living npc = 2hd zombie.

as the cohort, it would just be the general allowed level of the cohort - 1000xp.


Since the Template has no LA If it is allowed I would say that 1 hd necropolitans would be 1st level followers and 2 hd necropolitans would be 2hd, they have have use to of been a higher level but they aren't anymore. Especially since it is "Undead" leadership.

[sideswipe]

In the 3.0 DMG Followers were explicitly NPC classes only.

This text didn't make it into the 3.5 DMG.

yes but they are explicitly split into FOLLOWERS and COHORTS (caps for emphisis). so if the line says followers must be NPC's, which is what i said, then i am correct.

but it says nothing about your cohort having to be npc classes. like i said.

There are no limitations on the class, race, or gender of a character’s
cohorts,
the DMG page 104. cohorts

in my original post to the OP i said that, since he asked if FOLLOWERS could have PC classes, followers themselves cannot have pc classes. i then said npc class levels could be fine. i then said that since the necropoliton transformation process drains xp, the total amount the character would have had would be 1000+ making them iffy in my eyes of being "level 1" though having 1 hit die.
so i merely suggested that if i was dm i would say that a 1hd necropoliton with a npc class would be equivelent to a "level 2 slot" since my groups play with no LA buyoff. i should have gone into more detail with my last post.

i mentioned the cohort because they could do exactly what the OP wanted and wanted to clear any questions they would have with them before hand.
though with a cohort, being basicly the same-ish level of the party i would allow the normal necropoliton rules as cohorts are meant to "extra characters".

[Vaz]

NPC's are not explicitly NPC class levels only. Look at Deities and Demigods for example - they are all NPC's (usually), and have class levels.

[sideswipe]

NPC's are not explicitly NPC class levels only. Look at Deities and Demigods for example - they are all NPC's (usually), and have class levels.

so your example it to use things that should never have been given stats in the first place..... good example.

none of my groups use the d&d gods, they all suck and are really weak. or just dumb but powerful and would never use their power.


moving on from comparing Gods to a level 1 adept.
like i said it is implied that followers should be NPC's as they are just some low power guys who cannot make an adventurers party of there own. and should be just average people.

the cohort is an aspiring powerful character just like you. but maybe of slightly less power, and learning to adventure with bigger badder people.

[Segev]

You can claim it's implied all you like, but there are no RAW in 3.5 to support the claim that followers must use the NPC classes. Being an NPC is not synonymous with having an NPC class. Technically, PCs can take the NPC classes, and there are examples of numerous humanoids and monstrous humanoids in the MMs which are statted out as antagonists which explicitly have levels in PC classes. The Ogre Fighter and the Celestial Charger Unicorn (which has cleric levels) come to mind.

Nothing prevents all of your first level followers from being wizards, each with a different buff spell they plan to cast on you in the first round of combat. Nothing, that is, except their extreme fragility compared to the foes you'll be facing and thus the danger of a single AoE wiping 30% of them out.

[unseenmage]

yes but they are explicitly split into FOLLOWERS and COHORTS (caps for emphisis). so if the line says followers must be NPC's, which is what i said, then i am correct.

but it says nothing about your cohort having to be npc classes. like i said.

There are no limitations on the class, race, or gender of a character’s
cohorts,
the DMG page 104. cohorts

in my original post to the OP i said that, since he asked if FOLLOWERS could have PC classes, followers themselves cannot have pc classes. i then said npc class levels could be fine. i then said that since the necropoliton transformation process drains xp, the total amount the character would have had would be 1000+ making them iffy in my eyes of being "level 1" though having 1 hit die.
so i merely suggested that if i was dm i would say that a 1hd necropoliton with a npc class would be equivelent to a "level 2 slot" since my groups play with no LA buyoff. i should have gone into more detail with my last post.

i mentioned the cohort because they could do exactly what the OP wanted and wanted to clear any questions they would have with them before hand.
though with a cohort, being basicly the same-ish level of the party i would allow the normal necropoliton rules as cohorts are meant to "extra characters".

My reminder was not intended to imply any wrongness on your part and was prompted by the below bolded text. My apologies if you were somehow offended or felt made less of as that was never my intention. The bolded text simply reminded me of the 3.0 to 3.5 discrepancy and so I pointed it out in an attempt to share the knowledge.


for the cohort a necropoliton with pc classes would be fine.

but followers are either said to be only npc's or it is heavily implied. so i guess you could allow your "level 2" followers which would normally be 2hd zombies or skeletons instead be a 1hd necropoliton with 1 npc class level.

i say this because the necropoliton has to lose 1000xp to become one, this is essentially the whole of gaining level 2.
so a level 1 necropoliton npc = level 2 living npc = 2hd zombie.

as the cohort, it would just be the general allowed level of the cohort - 1000xp.
Emphasis mine.

---------------------

Additionally the book Power of Faerun provides many more uses for the Leadership feat among them attracting specific Cohorts and the separation of the Cohort Leadership score from the Follower Leadership score so as to allow for even more Followers for higher influence characters.

[Vaz]

so your example it to use things that should never have been given stats in the first place..... good example.

none of my groups use the d&d gods, they all suck and are really weak. or just dumb but powerful and would never use their power.
Give me a 4 person ECL20 Party that can kill anything stronger than Imhotep without access to Divine ranks themselves.

[sideswipe]

Give me a 4 person ECL20 Party that can kill anything stronger than Imhotep without access to Divine ranks themselves.

they are not cr 25 or less ( +5 cr ish is what is considered the 5% of unwinnable fights). i was not saying my party kills them, just read the entries. they are so unoptimised its not funny. i have a member of my group who doesn't know a thing about optimisation but when i showed him the book he said "well it doesn't make sense, they should be way more powerful then that with that many levels"

the flip side is that unless you play them with the intelligence they should have they are piss weak for their ECL.

if you play a high divine rank god with its true intellect. then they just say.... i alter reality to give myself 20 levels of STP erudite, 20 levels of psion (and the rest is inconsequential) i alter reality to give myself knowledge of every spell/power/manoeuvre/utterance/anything else in existence. i now have infinite powers per day with anything that exists. i alter reality to become 1 level of as many things that give me feats at first level as possible. i now chaos shuffle them into all the feats i need. i then alter reality into 20 levels psion and the other 30 in wizard. i maximise my spellcraft to say 100. i create an epic spell to increase it to almost infinite. i make some stupidly powerful spells i now know. alter STP again, now i am a psion with infinite epic casting. and now chaos shuffle or do anything else i need to.

i do all of this after using alter reality time stop 100,000,000 times. so it takes 6 seconds to do.

on top of this i am boccob (or someone similar) so now anything can come across me and i will infinite epic doom of death them until they never existed at all. last thing being an irrresistable un-name which cannot have the naming ritual give them a new name and cannot be given one by any spell of lower level then mine or by a god weaker than me.


see. gods are either so poor considering THEY ARE A GOD! or they just one day realise they are poor and fix it since they can just poof anything into anything.

some of the things may not be true but you get the picture. i just thought of these as i went along.