New GM seeking general assistance.

[Eboksba]

Hello everyone. So, as the title of the thread states, I'm DMing for the first time and am just curious on any advise anyone has. I know there've been a number of threads similar to this, and by know I mean I've actually been a member of this forum for years and years and years, yet never bothered to make an account until recently. Bit embarrassing, but I've always been more of an observer than an active poster.

So, I'm not a new player, I've been playing since around 2.5 and have done every single edition except 4.0 and beyond. It started out with an interest in the ye olde famous Baldur's Gate, which quickly made the jump to some friends who knew what it was about and introduced me into D&D in general.

So here I am in 2013 and discover (imo) a gen called Pathfinder, which introduced a bunch of really interesting new theories to me, seemed more FIXED (not saying balanced) and more consolidated than the standard 3.5< did. I did several campaigns and found that in all actuality, it seemed more rp friendly than vanilla did.

One day, I was joining a new campaign with an interesting world called Thunderscape: The World of Aden, which immediately came off as a sort of new world/steampunk full cultural translation of our world in the western age. Also, magic, and lots of it. Seemed an interesting campaign, so I joined.

The DM who hosted was obviously experienced rules wise, and would offer very good optimization guidelines for various classes and builds in pathfinder, however, in terms of rp, he was terrible at fostering a good environment, and we had a total of nearly 20 people join, play 1 round, not be there the next week and leave. I appreciate his work, but it was simply because perhaps of the skill of making the world come alive that killed it for the other people. I was thinkin this and how disappointed I was that I couldn't explore this world (I love stories almost as much as I love stories) when I realized that I had the entire campaign pdf in my hands. Since the campaign was new at the time by almost a couple of weeks, there wasn't any one of those player read-me's that other campaigns like Second Darkness 3.5/3.0 had to read, so he had us buy the main pdf.

So I get this idea that maybe I could try it and see how well it would work. I know what has made it fun for me, and how many other people have had fun doing it, and was thinking of setting up a roll20 campaign for Thunderscape.

Now that was just a long list of stuff that is sorta related to my topic. I have a few general questions that would greatly help out my making a campaign.

What is a good rate of monsters to players? I've decided that from an administrative standpoint, one of the better leveling systems were when the DM simply said "The party advances to level x". It kept everything balanced and admired how well it worked for the campaign. Loved that DM.

How does the CL system work? It is sort of a DM thing that I just never learned, and while I know some players don't use it, I would still like to know how it works.

What is a good gold-to-level ratio?

And finally, what are some of your greatest DM crimes/accomplishments you've seen? They say practice makes perfect, but I'm a little more pragmatic. Perfect practice makes perfect, not simply practice.


Thanks for reading.

-E-

[Sir Chuckles]

So here I am in 2013...
Try again.



The DM who hosted was obviously experienced rules wise, and would offer very good optimization guidelines for various classes and builds in pathfinder, however, in terms of rp, he was terrible at fostering a good environment, and we had a total of nearly 20 people join, play 1 round, not be there the next week and leave. I appreciate his work, but it was simply because perhaps of the skill of making the world come alive that killed it for the other people. I was thinkin this and how disappointed I was that I couldn't explore this world (I love stories almost as much as I love stories) when I realized that I had the entire campaign pdf in my hands. Since the campaign was new at the time by almost a couple of weeks, there wasn't any one of those player read-me's that other campaigns like Second Darkness 3.5/3.0 had to read, so he had us buy the main pdf.

No, it was not the RP skill, it was the fact that 20 people showed up. It's darn near impossible to get much of anything done when there's 20 people. Most I've done is 12, and that was a challenge and ended up with a 50% player retention.
It' even wrose for the DM (speakin' from experience) when a campaign world falls apart. Especially when the big reveal is that every campaign you've ever done with the group is all connected via space and you all about to find out that the current world was a semi-failed space-colonization attempt...
Uhhh... FrostWolfeh! Don't read the above!



What is a good rate of monsters to players? I've decided that from an administrative standpoint, one of the better leveling systems were when the DM simply said "The party advances to level x". It kept everything balanced and admired how well it worked for the campaign. Loved that DM.
I can agree with that at times. It saves a lot of DM time, but can result in 15 minute adventuring days. Remember that CR = to Average Party Level is meant as 1/4th of the party's daily resources, but this does not mean two CR=APL encounters together is 1/2 the daily resources. You generally need to gauge your players first, but a good ratio is never less than 3:5, enemy:player. This depends on the strength of the enemy, and that ration assumes a non-mook battle. A mook battle could be around a 5:1.



How does the CL system work? It is sort of a DM thing that I just never learned, and while I know some players don't use it, I would still like to know how it works.
Caster level?
I don't think I've heard of many campaigns omitting caster level...



What is a good gold-to-level ratio?
Wealth-by-Level. In the DMG. Page 134?
It should be on the pfsrd for Pathfinder.



And finally, what are some of your greatest DM crimes/accomplishments you've seen? They say practice makes perfect, but I'm a little more pragmatic. Perfect practice makes perfect, not simply practice.

I'll try to edit this in, as it would be a massive write-up.

[Eboksba]

My apologies for messing up first few posts. The campaign was set during 2013. As for the 20 players, the game started out with 6 players, and over the course of the next several weeks, almost 20 players filled in vacancies, came, played a bit, then left. Campaign lasted all of 7 sessions.

And CL is a typo, CR system.

[Sir Chuckles]

Read my name. I don't take your typos that seriously :smalltongue:. Though clarification is nice.

As for the CR system, many people will tell you take it with a grain of salt, myself included. Some would recommend taking it with the whole shaker. And a fair double handful would throw it out the window.

It's a bit subjective, being as it ranges from "Why the f*ck is an Allip CR 3?" to "Ok, that makes sense".
I use it as a very rough guideline. Really, it's the DM's job to anticipate and sometimes predict the performance of his group.

For example, I've learned that, despite my group being purposely given a bit more power than their levels hold, an "appropriate" encounter is often a tough challenge for them, due the fact that they can often play like they don't what a pencil is.
Conversely, I know to always keep a ninja, recently a literally Goblin Ninja/Cragtop Archer, as a contingency plan in case they have a burst of insight and don't cast maximized area of effect spells on their teammates.

[Firest Kathon]

To actually answer your question about the CR system: The CR of a creature is meant to represent the "difficulty" of this encounter, in relation to the party level (for a party of 4-5 characters). There is a description how to design encounters here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering). Also, the XP awarded for an encouter can be based on the CR of the encounter.





Difficulty
Challenge Rating


Easy
Party Level -1


Average
Party Level


Challenging
Party Level + 1


Hard
Party Level + 2


Epic
Party Level + 3




An encounter with CR = Party Level should (in theory) deplete the party of 1/4 of their daily resources (spells, abilities, ...). As Sir Chuckles said, many creatures have a wildly inaccurate CR, and the difficulty also depends heavily on party composition (e.g. if the party has no means of flight available, a flying encouter will be much more diffcult) and level of play (tactical, ...).


What is a good gold-to-level ratio?

Have a look at the table Character Wealth by Level (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering#Table-Character-Wealth-by-Level) on the above-mentioned page.

[QuackParker]

The challenge rating is bunk. It all depends on the composition of your party. The big, bad monster may prove generally ineffective against a party of casters and rogues with ample time to prepare for it. Likewise, a handful of cunning casters may utterly destroy your party if they are mainly melee. Even if you have a the classic "balanced" party - melee/tank, caster, skill monkey, and healer - Pathfinder so heavily rewards specialization that whatever opponent you put against may have DR rendering the fighter obsolete, cold resistance negating damage from your ice mage, be true neutral leaving the cleric's anti-evil spells useless, and incorporeal making it quite difficult for your rogue to trap or hit. Pathfinder may make some consideration with this when giving the creature a CR, but we have fought enemies 4+ CRs more difficult in a breeze and much lower CRs with great difficulty. Take it with the aforementioned shaker.

[Eboksba]

Salt, Pepper, and Chipotle shaker it is then.

What are some other good advices for a beginning DM then? Anything just stick out to you?

[QuackParker]

Don't get carried away. I fell in love with an edgy, angel-killing necromancer and so I introduced him at around level 2 as the new, main villain. Problem was, the campaign began as a fun, old school, dungeon crawling adventure. Now suddenly everything had a sense of urgency that really harmed that concept.

Also define your setting. If magic users are rare, then so are magic items, potions, scrolls, etc. If you can literally trip over wizards walking around, maybe the cost of magic items and services should reflect that. Do the races live in harmony? Then a city should be filled with different races. If not, seeing a dwarf in town might be quite a shock.

Don't be afraid of throwing your players a bone. If they want to be a ranger that really hates svirfneblin and wants to kill them, it doesn't hurt to give them that chance on occasion. Likewise, if a player wants to play something odd and marginally useful like a scholar or a pirate, then devise ways to make them feel included and valued. DM-ing is a balancing act after all.

[Haladir]

My advice would be to start with a published module. That way, someone else has done all of the heavy lifting of adventure design for you, and you can practice things like running combat, roleplaying the NPCs, and the improv act of reacting to players' unexpected actions.

I'd also strongly recommend starting with a module for 1st-level characters: that way you won't get too bogged down with your players having too many options that you have to know.

Good luck!

[jiriku]

Welcome to the other side of the DM screen! Here are your godlike powers. I hope you've been practicing your maniacal laugh.

As a DM, remember your three roles.
A DM is first and foremost a leader. Step up and take charge of things like organizing the game event and managing any people problems that crop up.
Like your previous DM, the DM is also a teacher. Teach the game, and always be learning more about it yourself.
The most obvious role of the DM is storyteller. Keep the story interesting and full of drama, and keep it focused on the players, their actions, and their choices.

New DMs make some classic mistakes. I'll list a few here, and show the better approach.
Railroad plots: when you assume that players will do x, then y and Z will happen. Instead of creating scripted plots, set up situations and then improve outcomes as the players make decisions.
NPCs as the stars: it's tempting to introduce a super-awesome NPC sometimes. Keep such characters in the background, so the story can focus on the PCs.
Overgunned encounters: "the players can survive as long as they do x, y, and z in this fight." Challenge yourself to make good encounters with weak monsters. If an encounter is too easy, you can always make a harder one later. If an encounter is too hard, then all the PCs are dead and the story is over.
Too much treasure: a common DM mistake is to fall in love with overgunned encounters and try to artificially boost the PCs with too much treasure so they can survive. Avoid handing out hugely powerful magic items. Most of the flashy stuff in the magic item section is intended for high-level play that you won't reach until a few years from now.

Here are some techniques for being an awesome DM that most DMs have to learn through trial and error.
Find a way to say "yes" whenever you can. Whether the player wants mecha and laser rifles, an airship and air pirates defend it from, a dramatic confrontation with his father the evil necromancer, or just a chance to run desperately through the market fleeing the town guard after his latest caper failed hilariously, learn to constantly be watching for cues from your players about the type of fun they want to have, and think of creative ways to serve up that fun.
Tell interesting stories about realistic people. Avoid predictable plotlines, and create sympathetic villains, deep and interesting allies, sudden plot twists, deep loyalty, unexpected betrayal, foul murder, races against time, shameful secrets that people will kill to protect or uncover, cursed bloodlines, and whatever else your twisted brain can uncover.
Play the long game. Be willing to plant seeds that take a long time to grow. Share facts and clues today that will gradually coalesce into a mystery or interesting story about the game world that isn't fully solved or explained until a game held three months (or three years) from now. (I am still sitting on the answers to some mysteries that have been puzzling my players for more than ten years of gaming.)

There are also some technical secrets to D&D that are useful for new DMs to know.
Plots have a "challenge rating" too. Getting lost without supplies in the wilderness is only challenging up until about 4th level. Solving a murder mystery is only challenging up until about 8th level. Take the time to learn how divinations, travel abilities, and effects that create useful supplies on the spur of the moment change the game and force you to update your approach.
Even in Pathfinder, party balance is fragile and easily broken. Keep an eye on the party's attack, AC, and save bonuses, and on each character's overall power, and don't let them get spread too far apart.
Battlefield control effects (those that restrict enemy actions) are much more powerful than damaging effects. Learn to use them judiciously against the PCs, and don't be surprised when the players occasionally shut down entire encounters with some well-placed battlefield control effects.