The Party vs. ... Another Party

[arcane_asp]

Hi Playground,

You have been great for advice when needed in the past. Im hoping you can help me again...

The party in my campaign is going to come up against another party of adventurers (opposed). I know, its an idea that has been used before, but Ive not seen it done in this edition of D&D.

Background
After months wandering the jungles, sorting out local problems and making a name for themselves in the small settlements there, the party have started homing in on their long time nemesis in the jungles heart. There's a super-dungeon to be finished before reaching him (as is traditional in these cases :smallwink: ) but I had planned for the BBEG to send his old Adventuring party up against the PC's as a first line of defence

Possible Problems
This is what Im worried about - I wanted a straight out confrontation with the PC's, they would have the enemy party using the sort of tactics they often use (tanking, strikers circling, magic users magicking away like artillery peices in the back row). I didnt want to use5 character sheets in game as thats too unweildy during combat, which lasts long enough already. I have started trying to condense the character sheets down to monster-like stat blocks, choosing the best abilities the enemy party would likely use.

Is this going to be too powerful a challenge to overcome for the group?
Should I scale the level of the enemy PC's down a bit or give the players a Full-On challenge where they are going to have to think differently?
Has anyone tried this kind of thing before? How did it work out?

Anything anyone can add will be useful. Many thanks

[Kurald Galain]

Is this going to be too powerful a challenge to overcome for the group?
It will be rocket tag. 4E is build on the principle that monsters have way more hit points than, and do less damage than, PCs. This means that a PC that wins initiative, particularly a striker, will likely drop an opposing PC in one round. And moreso if daily powers and action points are allowed.

So it's not really too powerful, but it is too random.

[Epinephrine]

The party in my campaign is going to come up against another party of adventurers (opposed). I know, its an idea that has been used before, but Ive not seen it done in this edition of D&D.

4e is not meant to have you fight players. Make monsters that use player-like abilities. Soldiers are defenders, Artillery are ranged/area strikers, Brutes are tough strikers, controllers are exactly that, skirmishers can be strikery or controllery, and Lurkers tend toward striker, sometimes controlling a bit. Leader is a specialty that you add to a monster that can buff/heal teammates.

If you want them to have similar defenses and attacks you should use ~level+2 foes; that will give base attack bonuses and defenses comparable to your party. Use MM3 stats to make sure they have enough damage output.

Example translation:
Barbarian -> Brute, give him knock down attacks, and a bonus against prone targets. Encounter power to smash an area (blast 2? close burst 1?) for a ton of damage.
Fighter -> Soldier, with an immediate interrupt when you violate his mark. If you want to be nasty, imitate a polearm controller by giving him a reach weapon and threatening reach, have him slide people around and stop their movement. Slow or immobilise perhaps? Remember that monsters can use readied actions, too.
Rogue -> Skirmisher (or Lurker?) with shifting attacks and bonus damage for Combat Advantage (lurker option, have him go invisible on every second round, deal roughly two attacks worth of damage every other round). Have it also inflict some minor conditions (slow? prone? ongoing poison?). The lurker option is always terrifying, first time the party gets hit for 2X(level+2+8) damage they'll try to take out the annoying rogue. Give him a fun flavor power like an acrobatic dodge against close or area attacks that shifts him 2, and negates the attack on him if it carries him out of the zone (encounter power, immediate interrupt).
Wizard -> Artillery, add controlling effects to attacks, groups foes up for the Barbarian and Fighter. Make some zones, have the fighter lock them into it.
Runeriest -> Soldier (Leader); good AC, aura to buff allies near him, hands out saves or THP with his attacks. Encoutner or recharge power to double attack and inflict a daze.

That's about how it works. Using actual PCs won't do the job.

[The_Ditto]

Our group had this happen to use in 4e.
We hit a "mirror match", which we were all "cloned". DM took "as of time" image of us (ie same powers spent, same surges left, etc, etc.)

Then we had to duke it out. DM was good in the sense he didn't just burn all dailies because he didn't need them ... he actually tried to play them "smart", without knowledge of that fight as the "only fight".

Gotta say - it was fun.
Gotta say - it was tough. VERY tough. we had a 5 man party, fairly balanced, two PCs went down, but we didn't manage to prevail - mostly due to better tactics (the DM got the lucky rolls ;) )

So in your case, yeah, could go either way. Make sure you watch their resources. If they've already fought 4 or 5 encounters, have no dailies, etc, you could easily TPK them unless you shave off similar resources from your team.

If you keep them at the same level, it becomes a pretty close crap shoot, in which the PCs need to get either lucky, or very strategic - or both.
(and they say luck beats skill - so be careful relying on them using better tactics to win ;) )

Aside from that, if you keep the NPCs "toned down" appropriately, I think they could prove quite challenging, and make quite the memorable combat.

[Inevitability]

Just create 5 monsters of the party's level (or a bit higher) and use these. Give them a few attacks that imitate class abilities and you're good to go.

[arcane_asp]

Speedy responses!


Gotta say - it was fun.
Gotta say - it was tough. VERY tough.


It will be rocket tag. 4E is build on the principle that monsters have way more hit points than, and do less damage than, PCs.

Yeah, thats what Im worried about.


4e is not meant to have you fight players. Make monsters that use player-like abilities.


Just create 5 monsters of the party's level (or a bit higher) and use these

I will probably end up doing something like that. Im going to lable the abilities/powers similarly to that of the PC's abilities/powers though, since they will be familiar with them but not ever been on the recieving end. I am actually looking forward to using their own powers against them, should be interesting for both of us. The guy playing the fighter can see how irritating it is having one character lock down a whole group of enemies, interrupting movement and OA'ing all over the place :smallbiggrin:

Seems like the general consensus is that regularly generated characters against Player characters might be too much for a fun game.

BTW, the party has one advantage that I wasnt planning on giving the 'mirror' party, they have all the loot & magic items they have acquired over 10 levels of adventuring.

[Surrealistik]

What I've done is use equal level elites with normal monster stat damage and accuracy scaling; works well.

[Tegu8788]

I was gonna say that, elites of equal level should match up the XP of a good fight, have enough HP to make things interesting, and do the damage/have enough tricks to keep players on their toes. Monsters are in no ways PCs mechanically, but reflux whatever you want. You got a solid breakdown above so I won't try to repeat. I'm just gonna throw my vote behind a party of elites. That'll make it fun, tough, but far less swingy.

[Kimera757]

I did this for the second-last battle of my Dark Sun campaign. I built an elite version of each PC, only made them all githyanki Sword Stalkers. I made one a healer and... if you're going to add an NPC healer, please do not put healing on a recharge. I limited the healing to 30 hit points each "shot" (PCs and NPCs were 13th-level) and still managed to heal 150 hit points over the course of the battle. In hindsight, I would mad Healing Strike recharge when bloodied. (That would still have potentially allowed 120 hit points of healing though.)

It was absolutely brutal. I knocked out the PC archer for the first time that campaign, and every PC except the barbarian fell unconscious at one point in the battle. The paladin brought back three people from unconsciousness with a power that healed allies within close burst 5 for about 5 hit points. Yikes! The battle turned on the evil cleric missing by one. (The evil cleric and paladin each had 5 or 6 hit points, and the cleric had recharged Healing Strike and was trying to use it. Many PCs were unconscious at the time, and the paladin, an off-healer, was the target of the attack, and had very low hit points.) Had I rolled 2 points higher on the attack roll the NPCs would have won. Very exciting, very dangerous.

Fully expect a TPK. This means make sure the PCs know that this is coming up first. The NPCs can get surprise, of course, this is more about player management. (Also, you don't have to duplicate the PCs.)


Hi Playground,

You have been great for advice when needed in the past. Im hoping you can help me again...

The party in my campaign is going to come up against another party of adventurers (opposed). I know, its an idea that has been used before, but Ive not seen it done in this edition of D&D.

Background
After months wandering the jungles, sorting out local problems and making a name for themselves in the small settlements there, the party have started homing in on their long time nemesis in the jungles heart. There's a super-dungeon to be finished before reaching him (as is traditional in these cases :smallwink: ) but I had planned for the BBEG to send his old Adventuring party up against the PC's as a first line of defence

Possible Problems
This is what Im worried about - I wanted a straight out confrontation with the PC's, they would have the enemy party using the sort of tactics they often use (tanking, strikers circling, magic users magicking away like artillery peices in the back row). I didnt want to use5 character sheets in game as thats too unweildy during combat, which lasts long enough already. I have started trying to condense the character sheets down to monster-like stat blocks, choosing the best abilities the enemy party would likely use.

Is this going to be too powerful a challenge to overcome for the group?
Should I scale the level of the enemy PC's down a bit or give the players a Full-On challenge where they are going to have to think differently?
Has anyone tried this kind of thing before? How did it work out?

Anything anyone can add will be useful. Many thanks

For ease of use, I would use monster stat blocks. Yes, that means more hit points, slighter lower to hit and AC, but it's going to be easier in the long run... if you like building monsters. Monsters work far better with less healing than PCs get (to put it another way, the NPCs would need loads of healing if they're built like PCs rather than NPCs).

I would use elites. One elite per PC of the same level means a level +4 encounter, which is usually considered difficult.

Note that monsters, unlike PCs and companions, have only one healing surge per tier. (The NPCs I had created had only two surges each, and I limited the amount of healing Healing Word and Healing Strike could do to avoid the problem of the super-sized surges. I wasted 60 points of healing on the NPC psion, who was forced to run screaming from the barbarian.)

What level NPCs are you planning on using? What classes and powers? I could help you create monster stat blocks.

[Tegu8788]

This (http://slyflourish.com/master_dm_sheet.pdf) and this (http://blogofholding.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/printablemm3businessfront.gif) are all you need to build your own monsters on the fly. No initiative, but everything else is there. Home brewing monsters are fun.

[arcane_asp]

What I've done is use equal level elites with normal monster stat damage and accuracy scaling; works well.

That sounds like the most straight forward route, I've basically condensed and edited down a few character sheets to this. It doesnt quite have the same flavour for the party as fighting peers, but I suppose thats not a balanced option


What level NPCs are you planning on using? What classes and powers? I could help you create monster stat blocks.

That could be handy - if you've got a few minutes to spare for this, I would love to see what you could come up with. Notes on rival party in spoiler:

The Hooded Comrades (Evil NPC party, alluded to in the campaign story with a few minor details revealed already). The PC's are L10, so these NPC's would need to be around L12...?

male human fighter, established as wielding a greatsword
female half-elf rogue, no established details yet
male halfling sorceror (wild magic)
female eladrin warlock (star pact)
male elven ranger, established as longbow wielder

Apart from the fighter, who has already been revelaed to have a magic greatsword, the others have no magic items or other specialties other than those listed

[Kimera757]

The Hooded Comrades (Evil NPC party, alluded to in the campaign story with a few minor details revealed already). The PC's are L10, so these NPC's would need to be around L12...?

male human fighter, established as wielding a greatsword
female half-elf rogue, no established details yet
male halfling sorceror (wild magic)
female eladrin warlock (star pact)
male elven ranger, established as longbow wielder

Apart from the fighter, who has already been revelaed to have a magic greatsword, the others have no magic items or other specialties other than those listed


If you have one elite NPC per PC, there's no need for them to be higher level.

The fighter, rogue and ranger are fine, but the other two...

A wild magic sorcerer straddles the line between artillery striker and controller. I'm frankly a little disappointed in the sorcerer class. I realize that virtually every NPC sorcerer I've built is a fire elementalist due to role clarity issues. Which side of the class are you aiming at?

Something similar happens with the star warlock. It's kind of split between two options (even worse as a PC, because it has to choose a primary stat). Is this striker or controller? Charisma or Constitution?

[arcane_asp]

The sorceror should probably lean more towards the controller type, he was created to be a parallell to the PC party's wizard who is a controller type wizard build.

The warlock is definitely more striker based, again to parallel the PC party's warlock (an all-out, power hungry infernal pact striker warlock, Con based)

I agree, I wasnt too impressed with the Star Pact warlock either, but it fit thematically with the NPC party's last know quest (interpreting astrological symbols on a distant ruin).

[Tegu8788]

So what you'll want to do, is take what's iconic about the class. Fighter NPC marks and OAs stop movement. The sorcerer will be bursting. The warlock can curse someone, with monster damage instead of PC damage. The Ranger fires two shots every round. The rogue, loves flanking for spike damage.

[arcane_asp]

So what you'll want to do, is take what's iconic about the class. Fighter NPC marks and OAs stop movement. The sorcerer will be bursting. The warlock can curse someone, with monster damage instead of PC damage. The Ranger fires two shots every round. The rogue, loves flanking for spike damage.

Very much this!

The flavour of PC's but the mechanics of scaled monsters so the battle is more tactical and less random. Would love to use some of the class features, particularly from the wild sorcerer (chaos burst could be a real surprise to the PC's!) and maybe the rangers hunters quarry too. might need to scale it down tho, an extra d6/d8 damage to their regular attacks might be too much...

BTW - havent heard the term spike damage before, can you clarify...?

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[Tegu8788]

Um, right.


Spike damage is a term for when there is a lot of damage real fast. And often not constant. A nova (using a standard, maybe a minor, and even an AP with daily and encounter powers for lots of damage) are spikes. All classes can spike, some are just better at it. The Rogue in the beginning, when CA was harder, was spiky. The executioner is definitely spiky. On the other hand the ranger or barbarian do pretty consistent heavy damage. Does this clarify what I meant?

[Kurald Galain]

So what you'll want to do, is take what's iconic about the class. Fighter NPC marks and OAs stop movement. The sorcerer will be bursting. The warlock can curse someone, with monster damage instead of PC damage. The Ranger fires two shots every round. The rogue, loves flanking for spike damage.

Yes. Also, be sure you are familiar with the PC's strengths and weaknesses. The last DM pulled this "anti-party" trick on us, he made the counterpart of my pyromancer be some creature with lots of fire resistance... completely overlooking that pyromancers ignore fire resistance by default (not to mention the fact that I had several non-fire spells). So my counterpart died in turn one, and from that point it was a mop-up.

[Kimera757]

These are the generic classed NPCs I have kicking around. Note that these are not elites.



Fighter, Classic
Level 10 Soldier
Medium natural humanoid (human)
XP 500
HP 101; Bloodied 51
AC 26; Fortitude 23; Reflex 21; Will 22
Speed 5
Initiative +8
Perception +13

Traits
Combat Challenge (martial)
Every time the fighter attacks an enemy, it can mark that target until the end of the fighter's next turn.
Combat Superiority (martial)
The fighter gains a +3 bonus to opportunity attacks. An enemy struck by its opportunity attack stops moving, if a move provoked the attack. If the target still has actions remaining, it can use them to resume moving.
Standard Actions
m Longsword (weapon) • At-Will
Attack: Melee 1 (one creature); +15 vs. AC
Hit: 2d8 + 9 (18) damage.
M Tide of Iron (martial, weapon) • At-Will
Attack: Melee 1 (one creature); +15 vs. AC
Hit: 2d8 + 9 (18) damage, and the fighter pushes the target 1 square if it is Large or smaller. The fighter can shift 1 square into the space that the target occupied.
r Javelin (weapon) • At-Will
Attack: Ranged 10/20 (one creature); +15 vs. AC
Hit: 2d6 + 6 (13) damage.
M Griffon's Wrath (martial, weapon) • Recharge when first bloodied
Attack: Melee 1 (one creature); +15 vs. AC
Hit: 4d8 + 9 (27) damage, and the target takes a -2 penalty to AC until the end of the fighter's next turn.
Move Actions
Get Over Here (martial) • Encounter
Effect: Melee 1 (one adjacent ally). The fighter slides the ally 2 squares to a square that is adjacent to the fighter.
Triggered Actions
M Combat Challenge Attack (martial, weapon) • At-Will
Trigger: A marked enemy that is adjacent to the fighter shifts or makes an attack that doesn't include the fighter.
Effect (Immediate Interrupt): The fighter can make a melee basic attack against the triggering enemy.
Heroic Effort • Encounter
Trigger: The fighter misses with an attack or fails a saving throw.
Effect (No Action): The fighter gains a +4 racial bonus to the attack roll or the saving throw.
Skills Athletics +15, Intimidate +10
Str 20 (+10)
Dex 12 (+6)
Wis 16 (+8)
Con 13 (+6)
Int 11 (+5)
Cha 10 (+5)
Alignment unaligned*****Languages Common
Equipment scale armor, heavy shield, longsword, javelin x2



Ranger, Elf Archer
Level 10 Artillery
Medium fey humanoid (elf)
XP 500
HP 78; Bloodied 39
AC 22; Fortitude 21; Reflex 23; Will 22
Speed 7
Initiative +10
Perception +16
Low-Light Vision
Traits
Defensive Mobility
The ranger gains a +2 bonus to AC against opportunity attacks.
Wild Step
The elf ignores difficult terrain when it shifts.
Standard Actions
m Short Sword (weapon) • At-Will
Attack: Melee 1 (one creature); +15 vs. AC
Hit: 2d6 + 6 damage.
r Longbow (weapon) • At-Will
Attack: Ranged 20/40 (one creature); +17 vs. AC
Hit: 2d10 + 7 damage.
R Twin Shot (martial, weapon) • At-Will
Effect: The ranger makes the following attack twice.
Attack: Ranged 20/40 (one creature); +17 vs. AC
Hit: 1d10 + 6 damage.
R Evasive Shot (martial, weapon) • Recharge 5 6
Effect: The ranger shifts up to 5 squares before or after the attack.
Attack: Ranged 20/40 (one creature); +17 vs. AC
Hit: 4d10 + 5 damage.
Triggered Actions
Elven Accuracy • Encounter
Trigger: The elf makes an attack roll.
Effect (Free): The elf rerolls the triggering attack roll and uses the second result.
Skills Nature +16, Stealth +15
Str 13 (+6)
Dex 20 (+10)
Wis 18 (+9)
Con 12 (+6)
Int 11 (+5)
Cha 10 (+5)
Alignment unaligned*****Languages Common, Elven
Equipment leather armor, short sword, longbow, arrow x20



Rogue
Level 10 Skirmisher
Medium natural humanoid (human)
XP 500
HP 99; Bloodied 50
AC 24; Fortitude 22; Reflex 23; Will 21
Speed 6
Initiative +12
Perception +11

Traits
First Strike (martial)
At the start of the encounter, the rogue has combat advantage against any creatures that have not yet acted in that encounter.
Standard Actions
m Short Sword (weapon) • At-Will
Attack: Melee 1 (one creature); +15 vs. AC
Hit: 2d6 + 6 damage.
r Throwing Dagger (weapon) • At-Will
Attack: Ranged 5/10 (one creature); +15 vs. AC
Hit: 2d6 + 6 damage.
M Crimson Edge (martial, weapon) • Encounter
Attack: Melee 1 (one creature); +13 vs. Fortitude
Hit: 2d6 + 8 damage, and the target takes ongoing 5 damage and grants combat advantage to the rogue (save ends both).
Miss: Half damage, and no ongoing damage.
Move Actions
Ambush Trick (martial) • At-Will
Effect: The rogue moves up to its speed. Until the end of its turn, the rogue gains combat advantage against enemies that are within 5 squares of the rogue when it attacks and that have none of their allies adjacent to them.
Tactical Trick (martial) • At-Will
Effect: The rogue moves up to its speed, and it does not provoke opportunity attacks when leaving squares adjacent to its allies. Until the end of its turn, the rogue has combat advantage against enemies that have at least one of the rogue's allies adjacent to them.
Triggered Actions
Sneak Attack (martial) • At-Will (1/turn)
Trigger: The rogue hits an enemy granting combat advantage to it with a light blade, a hand crossbow, a shortbow, or a sling.
Effect (No Action): The triggering attack deals 2d6 extra damage.
Skills Acrobatics +15, Athletics +13, Stealth +15, Streetwise +10, Thievery +15
Str 16 (+8)
Dex 20 (+10)
Wis 12 (+6)
Con 11 (+5)
Int 13 (+6)
Cha 10 (+5)
Alignment evil*****Languages Common
Equipment leather armor, short sword, dagger x5, thieves’ tools



Sorcerer, Wild
Level 2 Artillery
Medium natural humanoid (human)
XP 125
HP 31; Bloodied 16
AC 14; Fortitude 13; Reflex 14; Will 15
Speed 6
Initiative +3
Perception +1

Traits
Chaos Burst
The sorcerer's first attack roll during each of its turns determines a benefit it gains in that round. If the sorcerer rolls an even number, it gains a +1 bonus to AC until the start of its next turn. If the sorcerer rolls an odd number, it makes a saving throw.
Ritual Caster
The sorcerer can master and perform rituals of 2nd-level or lower.
Unfettered Power
When the sorcerer rolls a natural 20 for an arcane power, it slides the target 1 square and knocks it prone after applying the attack's other effects. When the sorcerer rolls a natural 1 for an arcane power, it must push each creature within 5 squares of it 1 square.
Wild Soul
When the sorcerer finishes an extended rest, it rolls a d10 to determine a damage type.

1—acid, 2—cold, 3—fire, 4—force, 5—lightning, 6—necrotic, 7—poison, 8—psychic, 9—radiant, 10—thunder.

The sorcerer gains resist 5 to that damage type until the end of its next extended rest. While it has resistance to that damage type, the sorcerer's arcane powers ignore any target's resistance to that damage type up to the value of the sorcerer's resistance.
Standard Actions
m Ensorcelled Blade (arcane, weapon, varies) • At-Will
Attack: Melee 1 (one creature); +7 vs. AC
Hit: 1d4 + 5 (7) damage. If the target hits or misses the sorcerer with a melee attack before the start of the sorcerer's next turn, it takes 5 damage. This damage is of a single type to which the sorcerer has resistance arising from its wild soul feature.
R Chaos Bolt (arcane, implement, psychic) • At-Will
Attack: Ranged 10 (one creature); +7 vs. Will
Hit: 1d10 + 4 (10) psychic damage. If the sorcerer rolled an even number for the primary attack roll, it makes a secondary attack.
Attack: Ranged 5 (one creature within 5 squares of the target hit by this power.); +7 vs. Will
Hit: 1d6 + 4 (7) psychic damage. If the sorcerer rolled an even number for the secondary attack roll, it repeats the secondary attack. The sorcerer can attack a creature only once with a single use of this power.
R Storm Walk (arcane, implement, thunder) • At-Will
Effect: Before or after the attack, the sorcerer shifts 1 square.
Attack: Ranged 10 (one creature); +7 vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d8 + 5 (10) thunder damage.
Chromatic Orb (arcane, implement, varies) • Encounter
Attack: Ranged 10 (one creature); +7 vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d10 + 4 (10) damage. Roll a d6 to determine the attack's damage type and effect.
1—Yellow: Radiant damage, and the target is dazed (save ends).
2—Red: Fire damage, and each creature adjacent to the target takes 5 fire damage.
3—Green: Poison damage, and ongoing 5 poison damage (save ends).
4—Turquoise: Lightning damage, and the sorcerer slides the target 2 squares.
5—Blue: Cold damage, and the target is immobilized (save ends).
6—Violet: Psychic damage, and the target takes a -2 penalty to AC (save ends).
Miss: Half (5) damage. Roll a d6 to determine the attack's damage type and effect, as above.
Minor Actions
Stretch Spell (arcane) • Encounter
Effect: Until the end of the sorcerer's turn, it adds 2 to the range of its ranged arcane powers.
Skills Arcana +7, Intimidate +10
Str 11 (+1)
Dex 14 (+3)
Wis 10 (+1)
Con 13 (+2)
Int 12 (+2)
Cha 18 (+5)
Alignment unaligned*****Languages Common
Equipment dagger, ritual book, alchemical reagents (arcana)

I'm not a huge fan of the wild sorcerer, and didn't have a 10th-level version lying around.



Warlock, Star Pact
Level 10 Artillery
Medium natural humanoid (human)
XP 500
HP 79; Bloodied 40
AC 22; Fortitude 21; Reflex 22; Will 23
Speed 6
Initiative +6
Perception +5

Traits
Ritual Caster
The warlock can master and perform rituals of 10th-level or lower.
Standard Actions
m Resplendent Blade (arcane, implement, radiant, weapon) • At-Will
Requirements: The warlock must be wielding a starshadow blade.
Attack: Melee 1 (one creature); +15 vs. AC
Hit: 1d10 + 8 radiant damage, and one enemy adjacent to the target takes 5 radiant damage.
r Eldritch Blast (arcane, implement) • At-Will
Attack: Ranged 20 (one creature); +15 vs. Reflex
Hit: 4d6 + 4 damage.
R Dire Radiance (arcane, fear, implement, radiant) • At-Will
Attack: Ranged 10 (one creature); +15 vs. Reflex
Hit: 2d6 + 6 radiant damage. If the target moves closer to the warlock on its next turn, it takes 5 radiant damage.
Elder Constellation (arcane, cold, implement, teleportation) • Recharge 5 6
Attack: Ranged 10 (one or two creatures); +15 vs. Reflex
Hit: 4d6 + 6 cold damage, and the target grants combat advantage until the end of the warlock's next turn. If the warlock hits both targets, it can teleport them, swapping their positions.
Move Actions
Ethereal Stride (arcane, teleportation) • Encounter
Effect: The warlock teleports 3 squares, and gains a +2 power bonus to all defenses until the end of the warlock's next turn.
Minor Actions
Pact Blade (arcane) • At-Will
Requirements: The warlock must be holding an implement in one hand and not be wielding a starshadow blade.
Effect: The warlock manifests a starshadow blade in one free hand. The blade persists until the warlock no longer holds either it or the implement, or until the warlock dismisses it as a free action.
Warlock's Curse (arcane) • At-Will (1/round)
Effect: The warlock chooses one enemy it can see. Until the end of its turn, its ranged implement attacks deal 1d8 extra damage against the chosen enemy.
Triggered Actions
Dire Fate (arcane) • At-Will (1/round)
Trigger: The warlock reduces an enemy to 0 hit points, or an enemy adjacent to the warlock drops to 0 hit points.
Effect (Free): The warlock gains a +2 bonus to attack rolls until the end of its next turn.
Skills Arcana +13, Dungeoneering +10, Intimidate +15, Religion +13
Str 11 (+5)
Dex 12 (+6)
Wis 10 (+5)
Con 13 (+6)
Int 16 (+8)
Cha 20 (+10)
Alignment evil*****Languages Common, Deep Speech
Equipment leather armor, wand implement, ritual book (Hand of Fate, Magic Circle, Read Omens), alchemical reagents (arcana), sanctified incense (religion)

This one is using Charisma instead of Con, but it's actually a Con-lock. I'm just not a fan of physical stat-based magic. I gave him hexblade melee abilities, but don't worry, it's balanced with artillery in mind (in other words, the damage is really low, I just didn't want to give him a flavorless melee attack like a dagger).



These aren't elites, and you will need to adapt them.

For fighters, I would give them a double attack (mark twice as many opponents) and maybe make Combat Challenge Attack a free action with a limit of 2/round.

For rogues, I give them Alacrity:


Thomas makes two initiative checks, and takes a full turn on each initiative result. He receives one immediate action between the end of one of his turns and the start of another.

For rangers, just bump up the damage per attack to 18 on average, and maybe also give them Hunter's Quarry (I have an "easier" version than the PC version to keep track of).

Warlocks could just use a double attack.

And as for the sorcerer, I just don't know. The only elite sorcerers I have are fire or storm sorcerers.

[arcane_asp]

Thats great! Thanks Kimera757, you're a star! Will definitely tweak these then drop them into the game in a few sessions time :smallsmile:

Thanks to Tegu8788 too, you definitely helped get the flavour right :smallsmile:

Murphys law now says that the party will try and negotiate with the enemy party and succesfully pull off every charisma, diplomacy and bluff roll needed to avoid fighting them :smallwink: