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GAAD
2015-06-12, 08:30 PM
Uh, Glyphstone? I kinda already did that.

Kish
2015-06-12, 08:33 PM
"Removes armor" is a pretty obvious choice for an anti-warrior card, just as anti-priest cards commonly mess with healing.

r2d2go
2015-06-12, 09:17 PM
Meanwhile...

Magnetic Mauler 4
Epic Warrior Minion
Battlecry: Destroy each weapon and gain half their damage and durability as attack and health.
Mech
3/5

Note: This is rounded up after adding. For example, a 3/1 Fiery War Axe will grant it +2/+1, while a 5/1 Arcanite Reaper plus a 1/2 dagger will grant it +3/+2.

GAAD
2015-06-12, 11:00 PM
r2d2go: That could actually be a pretty sweet 5 mana Rogue card instead, since it deals primarily with your and your opponent's weapons.

Anxe
2015-06-13, 01:05 AM
Shieldbreaker
Rare Warrior Minion 4
3/3
Battlecry: Remove your opponent's Armor.

I feel like we can come up with more creative names for this card than "Shieldbreaker" :smallredface:

cha0s4a11
2015-06-13, 03:54 AM
Inquisitor 5
Rare Paladin Minion
While fighting a minion with a Divine Shield, take that Divine Shield from them before dealing damage.
4/6
Do you truly put your faith in the light?


Inquisitor vs Scarlet Crusader

Initially: 4/6 vs 3/1 (Divine Shield)
Inquisitor Ability fires: 4/6 (Divine Shield) vs 3/1
Combat Damage: 4/6 (Divine Shield Popped) vs 3/-3
Resolved: 4/6 vs Dead

vs Tyrion Fordring
Initially: 4/6 vs 6/6 (Divine Shield)
Inquisitor Ability fires: 4/6 (Divine Shield) vs 6/6
Combat Damage: 4/6 (Divine Shield Popped) v 6/2
Resolved: 4/6 vs 6/2

The Glyphstone
2015-06-13, 04:26 AM
Uh, Glyphstone? I kinda already did that.

Yeh, but mine is simpler and more straightforward.

Gandariel
2015-06-13, 04:54 AM
Yeh, but mine is simpler and more straightforward.

And way too weak to be ever played. This isn't M:tG, there is no sideboard

GolemsVoice
2015-06-13, 05:27 AM
Thanks foor the feedback:

Lightslayer, (5)

Rare Priest Minion

Whenever a minion is healed, deal 2 damage to its owner.

5/4

I changed it a bit, I just wanted the minion to do damage not only to the hero, but also to minions like farseer and that naga healer.

After consulting with international experts, I have decided to make the following and final changes:

Lightslayer, (5)

Rare Priest Minion

Whenever an enemy minion is healed, deal 2 damage to its owner.

4/6

Wherever the Light goes, there goes the Shadow.

Frog Dragon
2015-06-13, 06:20 AM
Fyi, you should probably put all those edits in the original post and remove the minion from all the others. Reduces confusion about which is the final version.

http://i.imgur.com/Xve74bO.png

Terrorfiend 4
Rare Warlock Minion
Whenever a card is discarded, deal 2 damage to the enemy hero.
Demon
5/4

The Glyphstone
2015-06-13, 02:28 PM
And way too weak to be ever played. This isn't M:tG, there is no sideboard

You could say the same thing about GAAD's. A Flat 3/3 for 4 is at least a slightly overcosted body if its effect never triggers. A 2/4 for 4 is weaker in the same circumstance,and needs to strip at least 6-9 points of armor from an enemy to even be on-cost - if your opponent has built up 9 points of armor, you have utterly lost board control and one minion is unlikely to save you there.

If there is no sideboard, why are we bothering to design cards for a mirror match, which is only going to happen 1/9 of the time? Every card here should be in the sideboard that doesn't exist.


Though now I've got an idea to make it stronger, after sleeping overnight. Now it's guaranteed to give positive advantage, rather than only re-establishing equilibrium.


Dragonmaw Ironbreaker
Rare Warrior Minion 4
3/4 Dragon
Battlecry: Destroy the enemy hero's weapon and deal damage to a minion equal to its Attack.

Gandariel
2015-06-13, 02:54 PM
If there is no sideboard, why are we bothering to design cards for a mirror match, which is only going to happen 1/9 of the time? Every card here should be in the sideboard that doesn't exist.


And in fact we're not designing for that purpose.
We should be designing cards that are OK on their own, and particularly good in a mirror match. See the already posted examples for Priest or Warlock

Kish
2015-06-13, 02:58 PM
Rounded up or down? (If it removes one armor, does it inflict one damage or no damage?) Any removes-all-armor card is of course a must-play against almost all Blackrock Mountain bosses.

Jormengand
2015-06-13, 03:00 PM
Rounded up or down? (If it removes one armor, does it inflict one damage or no damage?) Any removes-all-armor card is of course a must-play against almost all Blackrock Mountain bosses.

I was thinking Kel'thuzad, but that works too.

The Glyphstone
2015-06-13, 03:04 PM
Rounded up or down? (If it removes one armor, does it inflict one damage or no damage?) Any removes-all-armor card is of course a must-play against almost all Blackrock Mountain bosses.

Eh, let's say Rounded Up, give it a bone.

And yeah, I'm not going to worry about corner cases for Single player bosses. They're trivial with the correct decks anyways.

I don't want to create the next Dr. Skill, though - does anyone else think it's currently underpowered? Maybe raise it to a 3/4 so it doesn't get taken out by a 2-drop?

GolemsVoice
2015-06-13, 03:32 PM
I'd say it'sa llright as it is, since you will always get the battlecry, which is what you'll play it for, most likely.

Frog Dragon
2015-06-13, 04:13 PM
It's absolutely underpowered, because it's a 3/3 for 4 and in the vast majority of games, that's all it'll be. Buffing it by improving the effect is somewhat missing the point, because it still does nothing against anything except other warriors. To be a decent tech card, you need to not hate life when you play it against something that you're not teching for, the thing you're teching for needs to be reasonably common, and the effect needs to be seriously impactful.

This basically only techs against control warrior. As an example of an effective tech card, Kezan Mystic techs against mech/tempo mage, freeze mage, and hunter, and still has better stats.

CantigThimble
2015-06-13, 04:41 PM
What if the shield breaker removed both players armor and fired it at a single enemy? That would give it utility against other classes.

The Glyphstone
2015-06-13, 04:46 PM
It's absolutely underpowered, because it's a 3/3 for 4 and in the vast majority of games, that's all it'll be. Buffing it by improving the effect is somewhat missing the point, because it still does nothing against anything except other warriors. To be a decent tech card, you need to not hate life when you play it against something that you're not teching for, the thing you're teching for needs to be reasonably common, and the effect needs to be seriously impactful.

This basically only techs against control warrior. As an example of an effective tech card, Kezan Mystic techs against mech/tempo mage, freeze mage, and hunter, and still has better stats.

So what if I reworked it to destroy a weapon instead and deal damage based on the weapon that was destroyed? Sort of like an offensive version of Harrison Jones, making it a tech card against Warrior, Rogue, Hunter, Paladin, and sometimes Shaman? That makes it widely applicable enough to be worth an overcosted base body, though I think I'll still make it a 3/4, and particularly good against Warrior who has the strongest Weapon cards of any deck minus an Oil Rogue who's gotten their combo off.

GAAD
2015-06-13, 05:33 PM
All right; changed mine to 3 mana instead of 4; most snowball creatures are 3 mana anyway.

Epinephrine_Syn
2015-06-14, 03:11 AM
As a note, the whole "one class counter, which is only 1/9th of the time" is 'very' false. Primarily because classes aren't played perfectly equally. In ranked, I see a 'lot' of hunter and warlock comparatively to say, priest. Also these cards should have 'some' use outside of the niche-BGH is still a 4/2 for 3 outside it's battlecry, a jungle panther without stealth.

Rogue: Defias Club DJ

2 Mana, 1/4
"Whenever you draw a card or summon a minion, place a copy of that card in your deck."

thirsting
2015-06-14, 03:46 AM
Trapdetectron 3
Rare Hunter Mech
Secrets won't trigger.
2/4

How does it do it, you ask? The same way you hug a werehedgehog - VERY carefully.


Secretdenier 3
Rare Mage Minion
Secrets won't trigger.
2/4

"Lalalalalala-Idon'tevenwanttoknow-can'thearyou! Lalalalalalalaa--"

CarpeGuitarrem
2015-06-14, 08:50 AM
"Should be generally useful" is a good point. I'll try and work an upside into my Wisp.

Epinephrine_Syn
2015-06-14, 11:55 AM
"Should be generally useful" is a good point. I'll try and work an upside into my Wisp.

Admittedly your wisp is already better than the default wisp. :P

Kish
2015-06-14, 12:10 PM
And its usefulness against Mind Control Technician even if your opponent is not a priest is worth noting, too.

r2d2go
2015-06-14, 02:51 PM
A bit of a late response, but...


r2d2go: That could actually be a pretty sweet 5 mana Rogue card instead, since it deals primarily with your and your opponent's weapons.

The thing is, Rogue is less about brute force and big guys than Warrior, IMO. This seemed too upfront and bruiser-ish to be a rogue class card. I did consider making it a Rogue card, though.

Epinephrine_Syn
2015-06-14, 06:49 PM
Though the wisp generally can be killed off easily. But if it worked from being in your hand instead of on the field, it might be 'too' strong.

CarpeGuitarrem
2015-06-14, 09:07 PM
And its usefulness against Mind Control Technician even if your opponent is not a priest is worth noting, too.
Yeah, but MCT isn't common enough to make Kidnapped Wisp a playable card outside of the Priest mirror. Off to brainstorm!

CantigThimble
2015-06-15, 12:20 AM
Hobgoblin priest running double wisp? Just imagine the VALUE!

r2d2go
2015-06-15, 01:59 AM
Not sure if I'm supposed to note this, but might as well: Changed the Mauler to grab half-stats but added +1 attack, so that it's less swingy (and reasonable without a weapon to steal). Still very above curve if it steals things, but now it doesn't utterly screw your opponent over any more than a single-shield Blood Knight, most of the time. I hope.

CarpeGuitarrem
2015-06-15, 02:18 PM
Hobgoblin priest running double wisp? Just imagine the VALUE!
TOO MUCH TO HANDLE.

Anyhow, I think I found an upside that doesn't make it laughably bad. I think it feels like an Epic now.

Gandariel
2015-06-16, 08:04 AM
Plasmashield Cannon 3
Epic Mage Mech
This minion reduces all damage it takes by 1.
4/1


Explaination: this is immune to pings, Arcane Missiles, Flamewaker, Juggler, Whirlwind effects and so on.

Not really amazing because you can just kill it with a random 2-drop, but a fun "epic "gimmick.

Note: yes, his effect counters three hero powers (4, If you count paladin), but really, I don't think the card has to be only good versus ONE class. Kezan and Ooze are good vs a few classes, after all.

GolemsVoice
2015-06-16, 10:34 AM
Why not write: ignores 1 point of damage?

Kish
2015-06-16, 10:37 AM
That would make me think "inferior Divine Shield; if I run two Silver Hand Recruits into it the second one will kill it."

If someone told me that wasn't what it meant, but didn't tell me what it did mean, my second thought would be "if it's buffed to 4/3 with a Power Word Shield*, Lightning Bolt will still kill it, because it only ignores things that do only 1 point of damage."

*For the sake of the example, the mage player got Power Word Shield from Nefarian, or the priest player got the minion from Thoughtsteal.

Gandariel
2015-06-16, 11:00 AM
Changed the wording a bit. Is it better now?

Kish
2015-06-16, 11:02 AM
Mm, it's not confusing, but I think it was better the other way.

AgentPaper
2015-06-16, 11:38 AM
Plasmashield Cannon 3
Epic Mage Mech
Always ignores the first point of damage received.
4/1

Looking for better wording.

Explaination: this is immune to pings, Arcane Missiles, Flamewaker, Juggler, Whirlwind effects and so on.

Not really amazing because you can just kill it with a random 2-drop, but a fun "epic "gimmick.

Note: yes, his effect counters three hero powers (4, If you count paladin), but really, I don't think the card has to be only good versus ONE class. Kezan and Ooze are good vs a few classes, after all.

Looks like you want to say, "Reduces all damage taken by 1."

Kish
2015-06-16, 11:39 AM
That would make me think that while that minion is on the field every character (that minion, all other minions, both heroes) ignore the first point of damage received from any source.

Anxe
2015-06-16, 12:23 PM
"This minion reduces all damage it takes by 1."

Gandariel
2015-06-17, 10:48 AM
Danke! Stolen :D

Dr.Gunsforhands
2015-06-18, 07:09 PM
There are a ton of entries this week! I't'll take some time to comb through them. I'll do it in a text file and then post it all at once, probably tomorrow. Feel free to squeak in any straggling entries in the meantime!

CarpeGuitarrem
2015-06-19, 08:12 AM
Trapdetectron 3
Rare Hunter Mech
Secrets won't trigger.
2/4

How does it do it, you ask? The same way you hug a werehedgehog - VERY carefully.

One point you should probably clarify: there's currently three secrets which trigger when you play a minion, so does Trapdetectron prevent those?

thirsting
2015-06-19, 08:31 AM
Yes, the same way Kezan Mystic does not get mirror entitied or sniped when stealing those secrets.

Hamste
2015-06-19, 08:36 AM
Yes, the same way Kezan Mystic does not get mirror imaged or sniped when stealing those secrets.

Admittedly, that is because it is a battlecry which happens before the creature enters the board.

thirsting
2015-06-19, 11:59 AM
Answer to that can be found from the fluff text of alternate version.

The Glyphstone
2015-06-20, 04:10 PM
Made a last-minute revision to mine, unless the pre-edit version is the one that gets judged. Not enthusiastic either way, I guess this round's gimmick just didn't click for me.



Dragonmaw Ironbreaker
Rare Warrior Minion 4
3/4 Dragon
Battlecry: Destroy the enemy hero's weapon and deal damage to a minion equal to its Attack.

Dr.Gunsforhands
2015-06-21, 01:02 AM
Okay, sorry this took so long. I'd like to say I had a reason other than just slacking off. I'd like to.

Anyway, one big spoiler for everybody this week. Deal with it. :smallcool:

Anxe:
Fog Bank 2
Epic Hunter Secret
When one of your minions is attacked, give all your minions stealth until the end of your turn.

- - What exactly does this help against? Most hunters just want to go for your face anyway. Then again, if you are a face hunter, I guess you don't want them getting good trades if you have them on the ropes.

Onasuma:
Lifeleech 3
Rare Priest Minion
Whenever a character would be healed, instead lifeleech gains +1/+2
3/3

- - The main function is clearly to buff it with your own heals, but the way it hoses your opponent's healing is kind of gross; it could have worked by just pumping itself without countering the restoration.

CarpeGuitarrem:
Kidnapped Wisp (0)
Epic Priest Minion
This minion cannot be targeted by spells or hero powers. If your opponent takes control of a minion, they take control of this minion instead.
1/1
"Help! Help! Somebody save me!"

- - A 1/1 for 0 with just the second ability, or a 2/1 for one with both (or just the first) would have worked. As a 0-drop, I don't think I like the way it so clearly overshadows other wisps, even if it's still barely worth a card.

GolemsVoice:
Lightslayer, (5)
Rare Priest Minion
Whenever an enemy minion is healed, deal 2 damage to its owner.
4/6
Wherever the Light goes, there goes the Shadow.

- - This is a better version of the heal-counter than a replacement effect, I think. It works, but it doesn't really have to be priest-specific.

HashtagGaad:
Rust Monster 3
Epic Warrior Beast
Battlecry: destroy your opponent's weapon and Armor. Gain 1 attack for each 3 points of Armor destroyed.*
2/4

- - Not bad. I liked my version better, though. :p

Jormengand:
Spelltheft 3
Epic Mage Spell
Secret:*When your opponent casts a spell, get two copies.

- - ďPut two copies of it into your hand,Ē doesn't make it too long, I don't think. Quite an interesting card! It feels like something Nefarian would do. I'd almost rather get a Rogue spell with it than a Mage one, actually.

CantigThimble
Shadow Dance Instructor 4
Rogue Rare Minion
Whenever a minion is returned to your hand, it costs 2 less.
3/5
The dance of shadows has many steps and she can teach you all of them.

- - This could probably get away with being neutral, but the flavor drips of Rogue, so points there. Your explanation re: vanish is enough to tell me about the intended mirror matchup, and it makes sense, but I would also submit that it helps even more vs. trap-based hunters. Also, I kind of hope that the minion is a Pandaren, even though she's not a brewmaster. Imagine the synergy!

R2D2GO:
Magnetic Mauler 4
Epic Warrior Minion
Battlecry: Destroy each weapon and gain half their damage and durability as attack and health.
Mech
3/5

- - This one looks like it involves a lot of math. It also seems like more of a Pirate ability than anything.

ChaosForAll:
Inquisitor 5
Rare Paladin Minion
While fighting a minion with a*Divine Shield, take that*Divine Shield*from them before dealing damage.
4/6
Do you*truly*put your faith in the light?

- - I think the ability could be spelled out more concisely, but the idea is there. The stat set feels out of place, though; if you already have 6 health, what do you need a divine shield for?

Frog Dragon:
Terrorfiend 4
Rare Warlock Minion
Whenever a card is discarded, deal 2 damage to the enemy hero.
Demon
5/4

- - That's pretty entertaining. You can use it in your own Hellbent-style deck and get some value, and if your opponent triggers it, hey, bonus. I'd almost prefer it on a 1-drop so that you can go into Succubus right away, or a 2-drop just because it feels better for a minor utility effect.

The Glyphstone:
Dragonmaw Ironbreaker
Rare Warrior Minion 4
3/4 Dragon
Battlecry: Destroy the enemy hero's weapon and deal damage to a minion equal to its Attack.

- - Hmm. I'd actually consider making it blow up directly in the hero's face, rather than going around to hit a minion.

Thirsting:
Trapdetectron 3
Rare Hunter Mech
Secrets won't trigger.
2/4
How does it do it, you ask? The same way you hug a werehedgehog - VERY carefully.

- - Not a fan of the flavor text, and the name could just be Detectron. The ability works, though, and it's even a cute way of preventing your own traps from going off at inappropriate times.

Gandariel:
Plasmashield Cannon 3
Epic Mage Mech
This minion reduces all damage it takes by 1.
4/1

- - I dunno, I like, ďWhenever this minion takes damage, reduce that damage by 1.Ē :p Good ability! Has no real reason to be mage-specific. A mech-mage would probably still like it if it were neutral, and it certainly protects against all of the triggered random-damage stuff that the mages on the ladder are so fond of right now. The flavor could use some work. A cannon should be shooting things, and shields are already a thing; this feels like some kind of weird absorption field.

It's actually coming down to a couple of entries that seem to fit the best as class-specific cards in their own right: CantigThimble's Rogue Panda-enabler and Frog Dragon's Warlock Discard-synergy. Long story short, it came down to a flavor battle and the way one of them makes my imagination run away more than the other.

CantigThimble wins with Shadow Dance Instructor!

CantigThimble
2015-06-21, 03:20 AM
Thanks! For this week:

Make a card for arena!

A card that is only playable in arena, a card that somehow gains functionality in arena, a card that changes your arena, whatever! If you know MTG then, this is hearthstone's version of conspiracy.

thirsting
2015-06-21, 06:33 AM
Um.. I have no idea how to even begin thinking of something like that. :smallfrown: Well, except that "this card only available in Arena" thing..

Gandariel
2015-06-21, 06:52 AM
MCT, Argent Commander, Sunwalker, Boulderfist ogre, Sea Giant etc.

Cards that are not usable in Constructed, but highly valued in Arena

thirsting
2015-06-21, 07:06 AM
Ah, I misunderstood then. I thought those would be hard forced restrictions as in "You may only pick this card in arena, period", instead of "not really good in constructed".
Edit: Or, judging from the contributions below and this (http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Conspiracy_(format)), maybe I didn't. Huh. I'm confuse.



Make a card for arena!

A card that is only playable in arena, a card that somehow gains functionality in arena, a card that changes your arena, whatever! If you know MTG then, this is hearthstone's version of conspiracy.

(Copying this here for ease of reference - no need to check last page for this week's rules)

Anxe
2015-06-21, 08:34 AM
Fortune Seeker 3
Rare Neutral Minion
Your next pick is for a Legendary minion.
1/2

The Glyphstone
2015-06-21, 10:44 AM
Underdog Gladiator
Epic Neutral Minion 2
2/2
Battlecry: Gain +2 Attack for each Loss this arena run and +2 Health for every Win this arena run.

thirsting
2015-06-21, 11:45 AM
Premonition 0
Epic Neutral Spell
This card is replaced by a copy of your next pick.


Neutral spell? Why not, it doesn't come up in actual play, only when drafting. And again, name is bad. Or rather, does not fit the card really.

Kish
2015-06-21, 12:00 PM
That's not exactly a good card for arena either, especially in light of the fact that it has to be one of three epic choices and your next pick will probably be a common.

But I do see that the rules say nothing about a good card for arena, just a card for arena.

Gandariel
2015-06-21, 12:05 PM
Underdog Gladiator
Epic Neutral Minion 2
2/2
Battlecry: Gain +2 Attack for each Loss this arena run and +2 Health for every Win this arena run.

So naturally, at a score of 11-2 you'd be coining a 6/24 on turn one. Sure.


But even at 2-0 you'd be playing a 2/6 for 2 and that's ridiculous


@Kish: There are a LOT of common cards i'd take over a LOT of epics :P



Question to the Judge: Is this actually what you were looking for?

Should we all make cards like this? (specific effect while drafting or playing Arena games), or a "normal" card that is particularly suited for Arena?
I intended the latter, but everyone seems to be doing the former.

Please clarify the purpose of the contest :D

CantigThimble
2015-06-21, 12:30 PM
Both of those things! And any other interpretations of my challenge you have.

The Glyphstone
2015-06-21, 01:03 PM
So naturally, at a score of 11-2 you'd be coining a 6/24 on turn one. Sure.


But even at 2-0 you'd be playing a 2/6 for 2 and that's ridiculous



Sure, but that is perfect-case. And of course it's ridiculous. It's SILENCE ME: The Card.

Epinephrine_Syn
2015-06-21, 01:12 PM
I, I think my entry to the last contest just got 'entirely' skipped. I probably should have marked it better, I liked it too. Oh well, I'll just think up something for this one, which looks intriguing.

Also


That's not exactly a good card for arena either, especially in light of the fact that it has to be one of three epic choices and your next pick will probably be a common.

But I do see that the rules say nothing about a good card for arena, just a card for arena.

http://media-hearth.cursecdn.com/avatars/147/454/636.gif

Kish
2015-06-21, 01:58 PM
I have to wonder if the two people who apparently think "there are good common cards" negates everything I said dread the first, fifteenth, and thirtieth picks because it can't be a common then.

Gandariel
2015-06-21, 02:49 PM
Sure, but that is perfect-case. And of course it's ridiculous. It's SILENCE ME: The Card.

It is OP every single game except the first. I *highly* recommend changing it.
something like "if you have more wins than losses, X, otherwise, Y"?

@Kish: of course not, but the point is: there are a lot of useless epics, and a "spin again" card wouldn't be such a bad idea, especially at the epic slot.

And btw, I've gone 12-0 with no epics or legendaries.
Especially in the case of Epics, more rare doesn't necessarily mean better.

Frog Dragon
2015-06-21, 03:23 PM
Sure, but that is perfect-case. And of course it's ridiculous. It's SILENCE ME: The Card.
Even if you silence it, it's still okay-ish. Like it's a 2/2 for 2. That's not so bad. Compare it to a lightspawn, which becomes a brick if you silence, and it's still good because it's a 5/5 for 4.
If your opponent doesn't have silence, it's insanely above curve in every game past the first one.

Edit: Sworsage'd by Gand.

The Glyphstone
2015-06-21, 05:47 PM
Okay, attempt 2:


Underdog Gladiator
Rare Neutral Minion 2
2/2

If you have more wins than losses, this card gains +3 Health.
If you have more losses than wins, this card gains +3 Attack.


Now it's more like a cheap Druid of the Flame, trading -1 mana for the inability to directly choose which statline it gets (2/5 or 5/2). When you're behind, it's more aggressive, and when you're ahead, it's more cautious and defensive.

Epinephrine_Syn
2015-06-21, 07:15 PM
When you pick that card, you're basically gambling that one of the three choices for your next pick, including Common, will be better than either of the other two Epics that you pick. I feel like this is going to be a card you pick sometimes, but not always. I don't feel like it's 'so bad it's unpickable'.

I mean, if your picks were Junkbot, Hungry Crab, and Mini-Mage, would you really not be preferring to take a 'double down on your next option' card?


Also, what happens if you are equal in wins and losses? Stays a 2/2? Or would it become a 3/3 or some such?

Anyway, here's my card, more clearly in the open.

Neutral Rare: Centralized Ley Lines
0 Mana Spell: Effect; Gain 3 Mana crystals for this turn only.
At the end of your draft, add 1 to the mana cost of 8 cards in your deck.
At the end of your arena run, if you have at least 3 wins, add 2 wins to your arena run (still max 12).

Gandariel
2015-06-22, 03:05 AM
Okay, attempt 2:


Underdog Gladiator
Rare Neutral Minion 2
2/2

If you have more wins than losses, this card gains +3 Health.
If you have more losses than wins, this card gains +3 Attack.


Now it's more like a cheap Druid of the Flame, trading -1 mana for the inability to directly choose which statline it gets (2/5 or 5/2). When you're behind, it's more aggressive, and when you're ahead, it's more cautious and defensive.

... And again, it is way overpowered. You can't have a 5/2 or 2/5 for 2 at no drawback, man

The Glyphstone
2015-06-22, 05:11 AM
... And again, it is way overpowered. You can't have a 5/2 or 2/5 for 2 at no drawback, man

...Whatever. I'm happy with it now. The snowballing first draft was legitimately too powerful, but no one calls Druid of the Flame overpowered as your choice of a 5/2 or a 2/5 for 3 mana, with the option of Choose One to control its shape. In fact, DoF is often referenced as 'weak'. So a 2/5 for 2, that might be a 5/2 for 2 if you get really unlucky in your first 1-2 matches, is not way overpowered. It fits the power band I want, has the design intent I'm looking for, integrates the flavor I was aiming for to its mechanics, and meets the criteria of the contest. Go nuts making your own idea if you have something better.




Also, what happens if you are equal in wins and losses? Stays a 2/2? Or would it become a 3/3 or some such?

Yeah, neither triggers and it's just a 2/2 for 2, which is mediocre but not awful. And since that can only happen when you are 0-0, 1-1, or 2-2, it's such a small percentage of potential activations that I don't think it is worth designing around.

Gandariel
2015-06-22, 06:09 AM
is not way overpowered. It fits the power band I want,

IT IS WAY OVERPOWERED!

It's a 3-drop that costs 2 mana and has no disadvantage!

Kish
2015-06-22, 08:09 AM
I don't know why Gandariel's insisting on fighting the "overpowered" question to the mat (nor would I want to bet on Blizzard never introducing a card which can be a 2/5 or 5/2 for 2 with no more disadvantage than "might also be a 2/2 for 2,") but I do wonder why the name "Underdog Gladiator," which makes me expect a buff if you're behind and a nerf if you're ahead, not a different buff either way.

Frog Dragon
2015-06-22, 08:29 AM
It is overpowered though, by virtue of being stronger than everything else in its weight class in pure stats with no meaningful drawback.

The Glyphstone
2015-06-22, 08:45 AM
I don't know why Gandariel's insisting on fighting the "overpowered" question to the mat (nor would I want to bet on Blizzard never introducing a card which can be a 2/5 or 5/2 for 2 with no more disadvantage than "might also be a 2/2 for 2,") but I do wonder why the name "Underdog Gladiator," which makes me expect a buff if you're behind and a nerf if you're ahead, not a different buff either way.

Like above, the idea was that he fights more aggressively when he's behind (bonus to Attack), but more cautiously to protect his advantage when he's ahead (bonus to Health). If you can think of an adjective better than Underdog, I'm open to suggestions.



It is overpowered though, by virtue of being stronger than everything else in its weight class in pure stats with no meaningful drawback.

The very first core set had Bloodfen Raptor (common 3/2 with no text) alongside Acidic Swamp Ooze (common 3/2 with a bonus ability) and Faerie Dragon (common 3/2 with a bonus ability), or River Crocolisk (common 2/3 with no text) alongside Amani Berzerker (common 2/3 with a bonus ability) and Bloodsail Raider (common 2/3 with a bonus ability), but no one calls Ooze/Dragon/Berzerker/Raider overpowered despite being directly superior to another card in their set. It had Chillwind Yeti, a common 4/5 with no text, who is also stronger than everything else in its weight class in pure stats with no meaningful drawback, yet Yeti is considered 'good', not 'overpowered'. It may be overpowered in a pure vacuum according to the Vanilla Test, but against actual printed-by-Blizzard cards, I think it's fairly in the middle of the pack; a 2/5 is almost guaranteed to go 2-for-1 in the early game, but as a Rare card in Arena that is a fair benefit compared to a lot of other potential picks.

Frog Dragon
2015-06-22, 08:57 AM
Your own math is betraying you here.

Firstly, what does the yeti not have? Well, it doesn't give a friendly minion +2 to attack. It doesn't have taunt. It doesn't have a whole bunch of other things. It's 1 stat point above a whole bunch of cards that actually have card text. This is reasonable.

Now lets look at yours. It has 7 stat points. What else has 7 stat points? Lets see, Dark Cultist, Injured Blademaster, Spider Tank, Druid of the Flame, for example. What do these have in common? They cost three mana. Out of those, only the class cards have any real effects in addition to having a fat load of stats.

Do you actually think the amani ability is worth of a whole 2 extra points of stats? Or the ooze ability? Or even the juggler ability? Turns out the answer is no, because otherwise those cards would cost 3, like basically everything else with 7 points of stats or equivalent abilities.

You just said you expect it to "go 2 for 1 in the earlygame". On a 2 mana neutral. What else is that but overpowered? An earlygame 2 for 1 is game-winning by itself. This thing is overpowered especially in 2/5 form because it will kill the opponent's 2 drop and then kill more stuff. In doing this, this card is already significantly more powerful than anything else in its weight class. You can't even finish this one with a ping after it slaughters your 2-drop. At least with the yeti fighting a 4-drop you can usually do that.

7 points of stats is worth 3 mana. The published cards consistently back this up. Your card is overpowered.

Edit: Also rarity is not supposed to equal power. While blizz tends to slip on this in the high end legendaries, there is no real precedent for rares being de facto better than commons.

The Glyphstone
2015-06-22, 09:07 AM
Your own math is betraying you here.

Firstly, what does the yeti not have? Well, it doesn't give a friendly minion +2 to attack. It doesn't have taunt. It doesn't have a whole bunch of other things. It's 1 stat point above a whole bunch of cards that actually have card text. This is reasonable.


You objected that it was overpowered in terms of raw stats. So is Yeti. If you want to concede that point and argue based on other grounds, feel free, but I've made my argument, it stands up on its own, and yours is directly undermined by the cards I've already listed as being considered balanced by Blizzard. Spider Tank is a Mech, with massive synergy potential and basically an auto-include in any Mech-theme deck; Injured Blademaster has a attack advantage and can potentially be a 4/7 for 3 under good circumstances. So even they have indirect benefits beside being neutral.

As a 3-drop, it would suck, being an inferior Druid of the Flame since it couldn't go aggressive. If you have an actual suggestion to what you think would fix it, I'd consider it, but so far you haven't actually offered a solution to a problem only you can perceive. Kish's question is an actual valid issue, since the name doesn't perfectly match the intended flavor I want, and one I'm much more interested in addressing than vague concerns about balance for Constructed ladder decks that it explicitly is not designed for and can never be included in - its disadvantage for its superior stats is explicit in the Arena Format itself, you must first get a chance to pick in in the first place and must give up the other two picks available, which could be any of a very large pool.

Frog Dragon
2015-06-22, 09:16 AM
I am definitely not the only one seeing this problem.

Do you think the disparity between mana cost and stats is the same with your card and the yeti? Lets see what kind of stat values cards with various mana costs tend to have.

1. 2/1, 1/2. Some cards even have 4 points of stats, but those tend to be class cards or shieldbearer. Then there's chow and flame imp, but those have a tangible downside that comes with being undercosted for their stats.
2. 2/2, 3/2, 2/3, 1/4, sometimes 4/1. The 2/2s tend to be kind of bad, the average is 3/2 or 2/3, which is 5 points total.
3. More all over the place, but 3/3 is common. 4/3 and 3/4 are also common. Some are weaker, but that's due to their card text. 3 drops average 6 or 7.
4. You see a lot of 3/5 and 4/4. Some better distributions in class cards. Most of the 3/5s and 4/4s have card text like violet teacher or ogre magi. Yeti has nothing, but has 1 more health. This spot averages 8, but there's yeti with his 9. Some class cards 10.

Do you get it now? 2-drops are actually a little unusual in how good they are in an arena context to begin with. The vanilla text is theoretically 2x mana cost. 2-drops as a rule beat this, and then have some more stuff. Yours beats it as well... except by a significantly larger margin than any other card.


7 points of stats is worth 3 mana. The published cards consistently back this up. Your card is overpowered.

If yeti was like your card, it'd be a 4/7. And that would be overpowered.

Kish
2015-06-22, 09:21 AM
Edit: Also rarity is not supposed to equal power.
I'm curious as to what your source of information on Blizzard's intentions is.

Frog Dragon
2015-06-22, 09:25 AM
I'm curious as to what your source of information on Blizzard's intentions is.
Deductive reasoning.

If rares were supposed to be better than commons, why is this generally not the case? Why is arcane nullifier a rare and taz'dingo a common, when taz'dingo is in most cases better? I think if you take an honest look at the relative power level of published rares and published commons, you'll find there's no significant difference.

Gandariel
2015-06-22, 09:36 AM
I don't know why Gandariel's insisting on fighting the "overpowered" question

Because i want to make him understand that a 2/5 for 2 is overpowered, as is a 5/2 for 2.

I will probably drop the issue anyways, since it doesn't look like the argument is going anywhere.

Oh and obviously, agree 100% on what Frog said.



@rarer cards not necessarily better:
Yeah, it's a design choice. I can't find some official stuff to support this, but it's kinda clear.

Rarer cards are, in general, "flashier" and more "special".

That's why most legendaries have "unique" effects (strong or not).

Far Sight is a... well, weird card. Not strong, but weird and interesting. Same with Shadowform, Mindgames, etc.

Common cards tend to have solid stat blocks and nonflashy effects.

Kish
2015-06-22, 09:39 AM
Ah, I love it when people cut out part of a single phrase in a sentence and respond to it like that doesn't distort the meaning.

Gandariel
2015-06-22, 10:10 AM
Ah, I love it when people cut out part of a single phrase in a sentence and respond to it like that doesn't distort the meaning.

Your earlier post:

"I'm not going to discuss why Gandariel keeps insisting it's overpowered, but i want to talk about this other unrelated thing."

I cut the unrelated thing because it was, as i said, unrelated, and wanted to remark on the part about me.

Your sentence started with "i don't know why" and i told you why.

...What's not clear or "distorted" about it?

CarpeGuitarrem
2015-06-22, 10:18 AM
New card!

Druid for Hire (3)
Epic Hunter Minion
When you draw a minion, it becomes a Beast.
3/3

Explanation: in Constructed, Hunter can pretty reliably build a deck with Beast synergies. In Arena, those become pretty dubious, and drafting cards which have synergy with Beasts is a pretty bad prospect. This makes those cards a much better choice and gives Arena Hunter some power.

Aha! I finally got it! Though this might twist the theme a little....lemme know if it still fits!

The Innkeeper (7)
Legendary Neutral Minion
Battlecry: Replace your hero with The Innkeeper.
0/20

New Hero Power: Arena Draft (cycles forward each time you use it)
(2) Reveal three random Common cards and put one into your hand. It costs (1) less.
(2) Reveal three random Rare cards and put one into your hand. It costs (1) less.
(2) Reveal three random Epic cards and put one into your hand. It costs (1) less.
(2) Reveal three random Legendary cards and put one into your hand.

Clarifications: replacing the hero keeps all weapons and secrets, resets your health to 20, and the Innkeeper does not have a weapon which comes into play. Each time you use the power, it upgrades into the next version, and when you use the Legendary power, it turns back into the Common draft again. When you use the Hero Power, it works like Tracking: you see three cards, pick one, and the others go away. You still retain your previous class for the purpose of Arena Draft; it will sometimes randomly give you cards from your class as some or all of your options.

Power-balancing to come later.

The Glyphstone
2015-06-22, 10:24 AM
Presumably it resets your health to 20 as well?

Do you keep your original class for the purpose of Arena Draft assigning class cards?

Jormengand
2015-06-22, 11:30 AM
Master Crafter 6
Rare neutral minion
Battlecry: Redraft a card you own into your hand. (Keep it for this constructed game or arena run)
4/5

You can target a minion on the field or a card into your hand, and then get the new card in the hand.

Kish
2015-06-22, 11:39 AM
What does "a card you own" mean here? A card in your collection? If it's a card in your deck then this seems to be a confusingly phrased and sideways-functioning Gang Up (though am I reading correctly that you have a 31-card deck for the rest of the matches after playing this in any event?); if anyone who's playing a mage in an arena run but owns Tirion Fordring can target an opponent's Tirion and play out that match and the rest of the matches in that run with a 31-card deck with Tirion in it, that's different.

Jormengand
2015-06-22, 12:42 PM
What does "a card you own" mean here? A card in your collection? If it's a card in your deck then this seems to be a confusingly phrased and sideways-functioning Gang Up
A card that's in your deck that you can see to target it - in your hand or on the battlefield.


(though am I reading correctly that you have a 31-card deck for the rest of the matches after playing this in any event?);

No, you redraft the card. If it's on the battlefield the new card goes in your hand.


if anyone who's playing a mage in an arena run but owns Tirion Fordring can target an opponent's Tirion and play out that match and the rest of the matches in that run with a 31-card deck with Tirion in it, that's different.

The same way that you can use Magic cards that target cards you own to target enemy cards of which you own a copy? Plus, you wouldn't even get a Tirion anyway. You would get a re-draft of a legendary.

To be clear, I'm going to use the last picture I can find from the main HS thread, which is Thirsting's last ladder pic. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19434257&postcount=1286) If he had a master crafter in hand and played it, he could have targeted any other card in hand, for example the Sacrificial Pact to destroy it and draft a new common. If he shot the Mal, he'd destroy it and redraft a new legend into his hand. If he destroyed the one that's really a faceless manipulator, he'd get a new epic which would cost him his manipulator.

CarpeGuitarrem
2015-06-22, 01:35 PM
Presumably it resets your health to 20 as well?
Correct!

Do you keep your original class for the purpose of Arena Draft assigning class cards?
I had not thought of that, but yes. Most definitely. I will put that in clarifications.

Kish
2015-06-22, 02:55 PM
The same way that you can use Magic cards that target cards you own to target enemy cards of which you own a copy?
You appear to be assuming a level of Magic: the Gathering knowledge I don't have.

By "redraft," you mean three random-but-class-appropriate cards of that rarity pop up on your screen, and whichever one you pick goes in your hand immediately and permanently replaces the card you targeted in your deck for the rest of that arena run?

Jormengand
2015-06-22, 04:13 PM
You appear to be assuming a level of Magic: the Gathering knowledge I don't have.

By "redraft," you mean three random-but-class-appropriate cards of that rarity pop up on your screen, and whichever one you pick goes in your hand immediately and permanently replaces the card you targeted in your deck for the rest of that arena run?

Basically, what I was saying is that just because you own a copy of the card doesn't mean that you own that one - it's "Not your Tirion."

Yes, I do.

The Glyphstone
2015-06-22, 06:35 PM
Not to bias the result or anything, but the Innkeeper is definitely my favorite so far. Balance irrelevant, it turns any game it's played in into Arena-ception.

Anxe
2015-06-22, 08:52 PM
Not to bias the result or anything, but the Innkeeper is definitely my favorite so far. Balance irrelevant, it turns any game it's played in into Arena-ception.

We have to go deeper...

Arena-ception 4
Common Neutral Minion
Every card played turns into a Choose Three card.
1/4

Choose Three cards are like an Arena choice, but all three of the cards are the same rarity and cost. You basically pay the mana cost of whatever was in your hand and then get a choice of three random things that fit the cost and rarity of the card you played. The card you choose is the one played.

CantigThimble
2015-06-22, 09:09 PM
On the innkeeper and arena-ception: while they're fun cards, they're totally playable in constructed and aren't noticeably better in arena than in constructed.

cha0s4a11
2015-06-22, 11:49 PM
Diplomat 5
Rare Neutral Minion
When drafted, the next 5 drafts will consist entirely of class cards from other classes.
1/1
"You have NO idea how hard it was to get these guys to the negotiating table."

Basically, at the cost of having a Wisp that's overpriced by 5 mana as part of your deck, your Rogue arena deck can have 5 non-Rogue class cards, which may very well provide some interesting, weird, and potentially imbalanced in your favor synergy boosts. Likewise for Hunter, Mage, Warlock, Paladin, etc arena decks.

CarpeGuitarrem
2015-06-23, 07:39 AM
On the innkeeper and arena-ception: while they're fun cards, they're totally playable in constructed and aren't noticeably better in arena than in constructed.
Keedoke; like I said, I was very loosely interpreting the theme of "a card for Arena", but I can make something which follows it more closely.

Anxe
2015-06-23, 10:25 AM
On the innkeeper and arena-ception: while they're fun cards, they're totally playable in constructed and aren't noticeably better in arena than in constructed.

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp39/darthramza/Foghorn-Leghorn-Thats-a-joke-son-You-missed-it-Flew-right-by-ya.jpg

CantigThimble
2015-06-23, 11:35 AM
Keedoke; like I said, I was very loosely interpreting the theme of "a card for Arena", but I can make something which follows it more closely.

Welll, they're not really 'for' arena and more 'about' arena. Still cool cards though!

Edit: I've decided I won't disallow them or anything but I'll judge them, like all the others, on how interesting and good they would be in arena. For that reason any legend would get knocked down a few pegs just due to how little impact adding legends to the game has on arena.

CarpeGuitarrem
2015-06-23, 12:48 PM
Not to bias the result or anything, but the Innkeeper is definitely my favorite so far. Balance irrelevant, it turns any game it's played in into Arena-ception.
Twincast Arenaception

CarpeGuitarrem
2015-06-25, 02:35 PM
I think I have a substitute! We'll see how it goes...

Buckethead
2015-06-25, 03:10 PM
I would kill from some neutral spells or enchantment-type cards like MTG has, or more racial types with varying bonuses. Murloc, mech and dragon is a good start but I would like humans, elves, dwarves, taurens, everything having its own types and boosting cards.

If I could design a specific card:

Legendary Neutral Minion (4?) mana
Gnomish Ghost (like a starcraft ghost)
While in play, for both players, all effects with a numerical range are always maximum. (so boom bots deal 4 damage instead of 1-4, imp-losion deals 4 dmg, makes 4 imps, etc)
1/6
"The real trick is aiming the nuke away from your face."

CarpeGuitarrem
2015-06-25, 03:52 PM
Buckethead, in this thread, we tend to have regular contests based around themes. That winds up being a major criteria in the judging of the card; right now, the theme is "cards that are better for Arena", and your card doesn't seem like it fits that.

Gandariel
2015-06-25, 04:38 PM
Also, I just won two weeks ago with a card that did exactly that :D

Fortune Channeler 2
Epic Shaman Minion
All numerical effects for your spells and minions are maximised.
3/2

Oh, and your card would be too weak: the effect is actually not that strong, and applying to both players makes it even weaker.


Also, new tribals are almost certainly gonna be introduced in the next expansions, so don't worry ;)

GAAD
2015-06-25, 09:30 PM
Stakeout Master 8
Epic Hunter Minion
Taunt. Battlecry: Gain 1 attack for every turn that has passed since the beginning of the game.
0/6

Totally worthless in a constructed Facehunter, but in a drawn out Topdeck Wars Arena match? Pretty dang good. On curve? It's a 7 drop with Taunt. Into Fatigue? Threatens lethal and kills everything.

Dr.Gunsforhands
2015-06-25, 09:43 PM
Abolisher <2>
No, this won't do at all!
Common Neutral Minion
Pick Me!: Remove another card from your card pool. (Pick Me! cards do something when you choose them while building an arena deck.)
3/2

When you choose this in arena, it draws your attention to your card pool on the side, allowing you to highlight a card and confirm with a button. Unless it's your first pick, you can't take Abolisher without pitching something. This doesn't reduce the final size of your deck; the thing you pitch will just be replaced with an extra pick. It'll still get rid of that one terrible Epic you had to take, though.

EDIT: I also imagine that the Pick Me cards can be added to your collection, not from packs but occasionally coming up as Arena prizes. Of course, they're not very good without the metagame benefit. Blizz might need to give you some fun legendary like The Innkeeper for collecting them all, so that getting them doesn't feel like a punishment.

Kish
2015-06-27, 04:03 PM
If you choose Abolisher as your tenth pick, is your next pick #10 again, or is the last pick #31?

(To put it another way, if you choose Abolisher as your tenth pick, is the pick five after Abolisher guaranteed to be at least Rare, or is that the pick six after Abolisher?)

Dr.Gunsforhands
2015-06-27, 04:19 PM
I suppose it depends on how this mysterious, "pick number," attribute is calculated. If the pick number is based on how many cards are currently in your deck, you'll naturally be getting a new tenth pick. If you're simply counting how many picks you've had to avoid repeating, then you'll end up with more than thirty total picks.

EDIT: I originally didn't care one way or the other, but I suspect that the mechanic you describe is designed such that the very last pick is more likely to be a flashy and interesting one. As such, it's probably best to get a new, "tenth pick," so that that rhythm stays intact. Make sense?

Gandariel
2015-06-28, 10:29 AM
Entropy Blast 4
Epic Warlock Spell
Deal 1 damage for every 5 different cards in your deck



Explaination:
The damage is rounded DOWN.

The spell looks at your whole 30-card deck, counts the number of cards with different name, and then deals the damage.

So, simply put:

15-19 different cards => 3 damage
20-24 different cards => 4 damage
25-29 different cards => 5 damage
30 different cards => 6 damage

This is a card that is likely good in Arena because you usually end up with almost all singles (so the spell usually deals 5 damage), while most Constructed decks run 2x of most of their cards (so the spell will deal 3-4 damage and be subpar).

This is a card that works both in Arena and Constructed, but is clearly better in Arena (and might even steer your drafting, as you'll avoid doubles from now on)

Keledrath
2015-06-28, 10:31 AM
I'd still say it's bad. At most (no doubles), it's 6 damage for 4 mana. So it's fireball, but usually worse.

Gandariel
2015-06-28, 10:32 AM
Blizzard devs explicitly said that they made Warlock burn spells weaker (see Shadow Bolt / Darkbomb), because otherwise the class would be too strong.

Giving something like Fireball to Warlock would be much, much too strong.

A "deal 5 damage" spell for 4 mana would be really good and welcome for pretty much every class (save for Mage and Rogue, i suppose).
And most importantly, it would be a really good card for Arena that i'd be really happy to pick up.

Also, Fireball used to cost 5 mana (in very early alpha) :P

CantigThimble
2015-06-28, 02:59 PM
Gandariel, am I reading it right that it counts up your decklist not your current deck? Does it say how much damage it deals on the card somewhere? Will Malorne or Gang up change it at all?

Gandariel
2015-06-28, 03:12 PM
Yeah, it checks decklist. The moment the game starts, the damage is fixed.
The only thing that affects this card's damage is how you built your deck.

Clear enough?

CantigThimble
2015-06-29, 01:26 AM
Anxe - Fortune Seeker

Fortune Seeker
Rare Neutral Minion
Your next pick is for a Legendary minion.
1/2

So you get a really weak card in your deck in the hopes that youíll get a really strong one next. Simple enough. While I appreciate it for introducing more legends into arena, what I donít like about it is that it really feels awful to get this then a bad legend pull, or to have this up against Azure Drake or Argent Commander or to get screwed over by drawing this terrible minion. I donít know, itís obviously better to get the opportunity to take this as opposed to not, but I can just see so many situations where Iím just kicking myself for taking or not taking this card and I feel like it would add more frustration than joy to my drafts.

TheGlyphstone - Underdog Gladiator

Underdog Gladiator 2
Rare Neutral Minion
If you have more wins than losses this card gains +3 health.
If you have more losses than wins this card gains +3 attack.
2/2

I really donít like this card, itís always overbudgeted and really has no weaknesses. Most of the time, itís going to be a discount druid of the flame, which is already a GREAT arena card. Also, I really donít feel the Ďunderdogí in this. Itís usually better when youíre doing well.

thirsting - Premonition

Premonition 0
Epic Neutral Spell
This card is replaced by a copy of your next pick.

I like it. I would probably take this over southsea captain and the like and it adds more strategy to the next pick by making you look for things you want multiples of. Not much more to say, sold card.

Epinephrine Syn - Centralized Leylines

Centralized Leylines 0
Neutral Rare Spell
Gain 3 mana crystals this turn only. At the end of your draft, add 1 to the mana cost of 8 cards in your deck. At the end of your arena, add 2 wins to your arena run.

So innervate on steroids. AND stuff is more expensive. AND you get 2 free wins. Weather or not the innervate is worth the expense is room for hearty debate but 2 free wins is immense, and I would feel compelled to pick this every time I saw it for that. In addition to that, this is a whole lot of text for a hearthstone card, twice or three times as much as anything else and it all needs to be there, none of this text can be moved to tokens like on boom. This is just too complicated for hearthstone.

CarpeGuitarrem - Druid for Hire

Druid for Hire
Epic Hunter Minion
When you draw a minion, it becomes a beast.
3/3

Spicy! Not as good as it would have been before they nearly removed buzzard from the game but still interesting. Solid body too. My only issue is how slow this is and how likely it is never to trigger. Minions rarely last long in arena so Iíd usually rather have an immediate effect, like turning all the minions in my hand into beasts. I like the concept but itís just not there in execution.

Jormengand - Master Crafter

Master Crafter 6
Rare Neutral Minion
Battlecry: Redraft a card you own into your hand. (Keep it for this constructed game or arena run.)
4/5

ÖHuh, so you can slowly weed your deck over a run at the cost of playing a bad minion. With the potential downside of being stuck with it in your hand to avoid hitting your value or getting screwed by the arena pulls. My main problem with this is that it encourages BMing your opponent while you try to draw into cards to burn with this.

cha0s4a11 - Diplomat

Diplomat 5
Rare Neutral Minion
When drafted, the next 5 drafts will consist entirely of cards from other classes.
1/1

Fun effect! I would love to see this. My only issue, is why is it SUCH a bad body? Thereís really no reason for it to be, in fact youíre less likely to get cards that combo with what you have already so it might even be a disadvantage. I donít wanít to make my deck significantly worse in order to have fun, not when arena prizes are on the line. I feel like it could easily be a yeti or 4/4 and be quite balanced.

GAAD - Stakeout Master

Stakeout Master 8
Epic Hunter Minion
Taunt. Battlecry: Gain 1 attack for every turn that has passed since the beginning of the game.
0/6

I assume you mean each of your turns. Seems like a pretty sweet card, I can see a lot of situations where this would be fun and interesting. My only question is why hunter? Thatís the one class least likely to see fatigue due to their hero power putting a timer of the lategame. Seems kinda counter-intuitive to me.

Dr. Gunsforhands - Abolisher

Abolisher 2
Common Neutral Minion
Pick Me!: Remove another card from your card pool.
3/2

Darn fine card. Good keyword, good effect, good body. Depending on my deck this could easily challenge a dwarf or ooze (not win axe or shredder though), which seems like a fine power level. All around well designed.

Gandariel - Entropy Blast

Entropy Blast 4
Epic Warlock Spell
Deal 1 damage for every 5 different cards in your deck.

Solid card in arena, bad card in constructed. Pretty good. Not much more to say really, it deals 5 damage.

Well my three favorites this week have to be Abolisher, Entropy Blast and Premonition. Iíll go withÖ.

Dr. Gunsforhandsí Abolisher! Itís a really solid card that makes arena more interesting and is still a pretty balanced common.

CarpeGuitarrem
2015-06-29, 08:27 AM
<shakes head> Wish I would've thought of that tweak. :smalltongue:

I think my favorite here was Entropy Blast, just because it wasn't explicitly a card for arena, but it very elegantly becomes better in arena.

Gandariel
2015-06-29, 10:12 AM
Eh, i agree with the judge.
I obviously like my card, but the winner is really well implemented, and i'd pick it as winner if i were the judge. This week I agree with the judge about all the cards, really

Also, "Pick Me!" is a mechanic I wouldn't be surprised to see in the future.

Dr.Gunsforhands
2015-06-30, 12:49 AM
Mine was a reference to a card in Ascension, for what it's worth.

This week, Make a card where the number of minions on the board matters!

CarpeGuitarrem
2015-06-30, 08:24 AM
Chorus Acolyte (2)
Rare Priest Minion
Battlecry: Restore 1 Health for each other minion on the board.
1/3
They really, really like putting together four-part harmonies.

(It restores all health to a single target.)

Gandariel
2015-06-30, 08:41 AM
Shy Giant 5
Epic Neutral Minion
This minion has -1/-1 for every other minion on the board
8/8

The Glyphstone
2015-06-30, 09:18 AM
So, first idea that I'm going to throw out..

Shadow Army
Epic Spell

Summon a copy of each minion on the board. Minions summoned in this way gain Charge and are destroyed at the end the turn.

1) Is this remotely balance-able? It can be either a board wiper in most cases, sometimes a 1-sided board wiper if your opponent has board control, or a 'double your face damage' spell. That's pretty powerful.

2) Assuming there's an appropriate cost for 1) that makes it playable without being overpowered, which class? I want to say Rogue or Mage, but Mage has a high-cost sweep card already, and part of Rogue's balance is lacking a way to mass clear big monsters.

Gandariel
2015-06-30, 10:02 AM
It's significantly stronger than the Druid combo. And that costs 9 mana and 2 cards.

It's significantly stronger than Mind Control.

I don't think it's balanceable.

You could try
"Summon random dead minions until your board is full" (which works like Resurrect, for both players, and multiple times"?)
I don't really know. It's probably too big an effect to make it work

The Glyphstone
2015-06-30, 11:06 AM
What i was afraid of. Back to square one.



...I got it.


Bladestorm
Epic Warrior Spell X
Deal damage to all minions equal to the number of minions in play.


How to price it, though? Its direct counterparts are Whirlwind (1 for 1 to all), and Revenge (2 for 1 to all, or 2 for 3 to all at 12 health or less), so it needs to be at least 3 mana I think. More than that wouldn't be worth it, probably - Warrior can't afford to burn 4+ mana on something that isn't decisive.

Anxe
2015-06-30, 04:33 PM
Bladestorm
Epic Warrior Spell X
Deal damage to all minions equal to the number of minions in play.


How to price it, though? Its direct counterparts are Whirlwind (1 for 1 to all), and Revenge (2 for 1 to all, or 2 for 3 to all at 12 health or less), so it needs to be at least 3 mana I think. More than that wouldn't be worth it, probably - Warrior can't afford to burn 4+ mana on something that isn't decisive.

It's pretty close to Brawl in effectiveness. Go with 5 mana?

GAAD
2015-06-30, 04:40 PM
Echo Barrier 4
Taunt. Battlecry: for each enemy minion, gain +1/+2.
0/1

Hamste
2015-06-30, 04:43 PM
It's pretty close to Brawl in effectiveness. Go with 5 mana?

It is also similar to twisting nether but slightly worse. Maybe 5-6?

Jormengand
2015-06-30, 04:44 PM
Vengeance Blade 4
Epic Paladin Weapon.
Always has attack equal to the number of minions on the field.
0/3

You will take revenge on your opponent for allowing you to summon that many minions!

Hamste
2015-06-30, 04:56 PM
...I was about to submit the exact same card as Gandariel:P

Murderhobo 3 mana
Battlecry: Gain 1/1 for every minion your opponent has -1/-1 for every other minion you have
2/2

The Murderhobo doesn't work well with others but he sure is good at killing.

I designed this to work well when you are behind but weak otherwise. It heavily penalizes muster for battle and zoo but otherwise isn't that strong. I wanted it to be based off of Questing Adventurer.

CantigThimble
2015-06-30, 05:25 PM
For Gandariel and Hamste: '-1/-1' is a mechanic that doesn't exist yet. The only comparable mechanic is losing +1/+1, which doesn't affect current health only maximum health. Will your cards work the same way?

Kish
2015-06-30, 05:42 PM
For Gandariel and Hamste: '-1/-1' is a mechanic that doesn't exist yet.
Are you sure? (http://www.hearthhead.com/card=1936/shrinkmeister)

Hamste
2015-06-30, 05:45 PM
Yes, the hobo can be 1/1 (that can't be healed but if silenced goes up to 2/2) or even immediately die when played.

CantigThimble
2015-06-30, 05:50 PM
Kish, that's kinda irrelevant to my question.

Hamste, let's say that through whatever series of events hobo has 10 health. Then it hits the beast. Health goes down to 1, then it loses +1/+1, health is still 1. Then it gets -1/-1. Is it alive?

Hamste
2015-06-30, 05:52 PM
Kish, that's kinda irrelevant to my question.

Hamste, let's say that through whatever series of events hobo has 10 health. Then it hits the beast. Health goes down to 1, then it loses +1/+1, health is still 1. Then it gets -1/-1. Is it alive?

Mine is a battlecry.

Kish
2015-06-30, 05:53 PM
The hobo wouldn't lose +1/+1. It's a Battlecry. It's not reapplied as board conditions change. "How does it interact with Snipe or Repentance" is still a question though.

CantigThimble
2015-06-30, 05:58 PM
As you may have noticed, I am in fact a genius. This question still applies for Gandariel

And kish, it would work like Twilight Drake, first comes battlecries then come triggers.

Hamste
2015-06-30, 06:00 PM
The hobo wouldn't lose +1/+1. It's a Battlecry. It's not reapplied as board conditions change. "How does it interact with Snipe or Repentance" is still a question though.


Presumably the same way it interacts with frostwolf warlord (I think it is applied first then secrets activate)

The Glyphstone
2015-06-30, 07:04 PM
It is also similar to twisting nether but slightly worse. Maybe 5-6?


It's pretty close to Brawl in effectiveness. Go with 5 mana?

Brawl sounds like a good benchmark, yeah. 5 mana it is.

CarpeGuitarrem
2015-06-30, 10:50 PM
Shy Giant 5
Epic Neutral Minion
This minion has -1/-1 for every other minion on the board
8/8
awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Epinephrine_Syn
2015-07-01, 02:13 AM
A fairly simple concept. I'm still not sure whether this is too strong or too weak, but given that a 6/6 for 4 didn't even help Shaman in Blackrock, and that this depends on swarm, which is vulnerable to aoe I can't imagine this being too big.

Shaman: Death Ward (is a Totem)
3 mana 0/3 Minion
At the end of your turn, deal 2 damage to a random enemy character a number of times equal to the amount of minions you have more than your opponent.
Look at it go!

(rebuffed to original state, I'm trusting others that it's better in that state on this one)

thirsting
2015-07-01, 09:17 AM
Fel Converter 3
Epic Warlock Demon
Each friendly minion counts as extra mana crystals that have 50% chance to be randomly destroyed when used.
3/4

"The reason I tolerate all these guys around? Extra battery."

Use 4 minion mana, 4 random friendlies each have a 50% chance to die. Normal mana crystals are used first.
May be useless, bad idea, don't know. Imp synergy!

Kish
2015-07-01, 09:24 AM
Does the number of minions on the field dictate what you can cast?

In other words, if you have ten mana crystals and 6 minions, can you summon a giant that currently costs 16 mana? What about one that currently costs 20 mana? If you have no full mana crystals and four minions, can you cast Shadowbolt?

thirsting
2015-07-01, 09:34 AM
Yes, crystals + minions = total mana, even if it means you get to use more than 10 mana per turn.
(spellchecker keeps wanting to replace mana with mama)

Gandariel
2015-07-01, 09:48 AM
A fairly simple concept. I'm still not sure whether this is too strong or too weak, but given that a 6/6 for 4 didn't even help Shaman in Blackrock, and that this depends on swarm, which is vulnerable to aoe I can't imagine this being too big.

Shaman: Death Ward (is a Totem)
3 mana 0/3 Minion
Battlecry: Until the start of your next turn, instances of damage dealt by this totem are increased by 1.
Effect: Deal 1 damage to a random enemy character a number of times equal to the amount of minions you have more than your opponent.
Look at it go!

What does "effect" mean? And really, is this "fairly simple"?

Kish
2015-07-01, 09:54 AM
What's a 6/6 for 4 that didn't help shaman in Blackrock? Is that how you're describing Fireguard Destroyer? It has to be, that's the only new minion they got there, even though it doesn't fit a single word of your description.

(Not a 6/6. Not for 4; Overload is not a meaningless word. Not a card nobody uses.)

The Glyphstone
2015-07-01, 10:55 AM
A fairly simple concept. I'm still not sure whether this is too strong or too weak, but given that a 6/6 for 4 didn't even help Shaman in Blackrock, and that this depends on swarm, which is vulnerable to aoe I can't imagine this being too big.

Shaman: Death Ward (is a Totem)
3 mana 0/3 Minion
Battlecry: Until the start of your next turn, instances of damage dealt by this totem are increased by 1.
Effect: Deal 1 damage to a random enemy character a number of times equal to the amount of minions you have more than your opponent.
Look at it go!

I have no idea what this does.

Gandariel
2015-07-01, 11:12 AM
Fel Converter 3
Epic Warlock Demon
Each friendly minion counts as extra mana crystals that have 50% chance to be randomly destroyed when used.
3/4

"The reason I tolerate all these guys around? Extra battery."

Use 4 minion mana, 4 random friendlies each have a 50% chance to die. Normal mana crystals are used first.
May be useless, bad idea, don't know. Imp synergy!

The card is 3/4 for 3 with a positive effect, so it clearly isn't useless :P
I think you could improve the wording :
"Friendly minions count as extra Mana Crystals. They have a 50% chance to be destroyed on use"

Question: can a minion be used more than once in a turn? Can a "sleepy" minion be used for mana?

Epinephrine_Syn
2015-07-01, 11:34 AM
Oh, well that was silly of me. I nerfed the effect by having half of the damage only work on the first turn, but I forgot to reintroduce the "At the end of your turn" text to the base effect when I was rewriting the card. It was originally just "at the end of your turn, deal 2 damage to random enemies equal to the amount of creatures you have more than your opponent".

Kish
2015-07-01, 11:43 AM
So if you have five minions, your opponent has three, you summon that and end turn, does it do 4 damage? Or 6 damage in three bursts of 2 damage each? If you summon it and play Charge on it (you got Charge from Nefarian), I presume it does 3 damage to whatever it attacks that first turn.

Epinephrine_Syn
2015-07-01, 12:59 PM
So if you have five minions, your opponent has three, you summon that and end turn, does it do 4 damage? Or 6 damage in three bursts of 2 damage each? If you summon it and play Charge on it (you got Charge from Nefarian), I presume it does 3 damage to whatever it attacks that first turn.

To the first, if it'd be the 6th minion you have, then it'd deal 3 instances of 2 damage to enemies, akin to knife juggler or ships cannon.

About the charge, it would deal 3 damage to whatever it attacks. I figured that you're not going to optimize charge+damage too much, I actually think that'll come up more if an enemy attacks it while it has a flame tongue buff or some other kind of buff, but that's also niche.

Aka yes.


(Also, about the Fireguard, I was oversimplifying, but my point was it wasn't enough to make shamans competitive in constructed. I never said shamans didn't use it. I said it didn't significantly make them better for constructed ranking, to my knowledge)

Gandariel
2015-07-01, 06:15 PM
I'd say this card is (other than overly complicated) too weak.

The rules text is very weird, but anyways it's basically flametongue: Do some free damage if you have more minions than your opponent.

Since it can hit your opponent's face, this card deals (good case) 2-4 damage, which might also just miss, and leaves behind a 0/3 body, which is worthless.
AND it's a blank 0/3 for 3 if you have equal or less minons than your opponent.

In short, i strongly advise a rework :)

CantigThimble
2015-07-01, 06:43 PM
Gandariel, shy giant is at 2 health and hits a haunted creeper, does it die?

Stormsurge 5
Shaman Epic
Summon 2 1/1 elementals with charge. Your hero gains 1 attack for each minion in play this turn.

Wayac
2015-07-01, 11:30 PM
Sin'dorei Spelldamper 2
Rare Neutral Minion
4/1
Effect: Lowers enemy spell damage by 1 for every minion you have in play.

So if you have this on the board with three other creatures, a non-powered flamestrike will do zero to all your minions. Still very susceptible to weapons, damage battlecries and removal spells, but should have enough utility to be useful in many situations.

Gandariel
2015-07-02, 02:38 AM
Gandariel, shy giant is at 2 health and hits a haunted creeper, does it die?


Yeah. Whenever a minion's Health reaches zero it dies (unless it's also receiving a buff or a heal)

Giant is at 2, hits a Haunted Creeper
=> Giant goes to 1 HP
=> Creeper dies, two spiders spawn (net +1 minion on the board)
=> Giant goes to 0 HP and dies.


A more interesting question is: Giant is at 1 HP and it hits a Webspinner. Does it die?

I'm going to say NO.
For the same reasoning as Flesheating ghoul gaining Attack for his own death, when Giant kills the Webspinner he goes to 0 HP BUT also receives +1/+1, so he stays at 1 Health.

CarpeGuitarrem
2015-07-02, 08:59 AM
Sin'dorei Spelldamper 2
Rare Neutral Minion
4/1
Effect: Lowers enemy spell damage by 1 for every minion you have in play.

So if you have this on the board with three other creatures, a non-powered flamestrike will do zero to all your minions. Still very susceptible to weapons, damage battlecries and removal spells, but should have enough utility to be useful in many situations.
I should point out that this is just a speedbump against Mage because of the Hero Power, and Mage is the class that this minion is designed to counter.

onasuma
2015-07-02, 09:19 AM
Crazed Bomber 6
Epic Neutral Minion
Battlecry: Deal 2 damage split randomly between all other characters for each minion in play.
6/6

Edit: Yes! Thanks for the catch!

Wayac
2015-07-02, 12:57 PM
I should point out that this is just a speedbump against Mage because of the Hero Power, and Mage is the class that this minion is designed to counter.

Sure, a mage can easily get rid of it. But if it's on turn 7, the mage still can't flamestrike or blizzard (without coin). And it's not just designed against mages, it affects Lightning Storm, Holy Nova, Swipe, Blade Fury, Consecration, Hellfire, and Whirlwind (one less patron activator!) just as well.

It's not OP by any means, but it is a cheap heavy hitting minion that's got a little bit more staying power than the average 1 health creature.

Jormengand
2015-07-02, 01:28 PM
Crazed Bomber 6
Epic Neutral Minion
Deal 2 damage split randomly between all other characters for each minion in play.
6/6

Should that not say Battlecry: on it?

Epinephrine_Syn
2015-07-02, 04:19 PM
I'd say this card is (other than overly complicated) too weak.

The rules text is very weird, but anyways it's basically flametongue: Do some free damage if you have more minions than your opponent.

Since it can hit your opponent's face, this card deals (good case) 2-4 damage, which might also just miss, and leaves behind a 0/3 body, which is worthless.
AND it's a blank 0/3 for 3 if you have equal or less minons than your opponent.

In short, i strongly advise a rework :)


Since people have been saying that it is both complicated this way and needing a buff, I'll just shorten it to the original effect.

I'm just worried about cases such as on turn 5-6, your enemy just played mountain giant, you have a haunted creeper and a totem on board, you rockbiter, abusive sergent/flametongue, hit the enemy giant for 6, then death ward for 8 damage to face. And a free avenging wrath every-single-turn unless your enemy has board clear.

Gandariel
2015-07-02, 04:56 PM
.. That is a really, really, really niche scenario.

Does it deal all the damage to the same character now?

So yeah, this card is simply not OP because if you don't have enough minions it's a blank card.
It *is* kinda scary, though. Hm...

I don't particularly like the fact that a 3-mana card can do 0-14 damage a turn, but that is not for me to judge.

After giving it a brief thought, i can say it's *almost* trivial to deal at least 2 damage. So this card's floor is a really bad SI:7 Agent.
Over to a better case, this card is a weaker Bloodlust or a weaker Goblin Blastmage.
The dream case is not even worth mentioning, because you might as well win if you have such an advantage. But then again, i said i'm not particularly fond of "deal 14 damage a turn".

Take all of this with a grain of salt, and with the knowledge that i am not the judge

cha0s4a11
2015-07-05, 12:58 PM
Blade of the Berserker 6
Epic Warrior Weapon
Battlecry: Gain one durability for each enemy minion on the battlefield.
Whenever this weapon kills an enemy, gain +1 attack.
2/1

Frog Dragon
2015-07-05, 01:59 PM
Chain Lightning 5
Rare Shaman Spell
Deal 6 damage to all enemy minions. Deals (1) less damage for each enemy minion on the battlefield.

http://i.imgur.com/eUBiXuU.png

So basically, if there's 1 minion, it hits for 5. If there are 2, it hits both for 4, and so forth.

Epinephrine_Syn
2015-07-05, 02:47 PM
Does it deal all the damage to the same character now?

So yeah, this card is simply not OP because if you don't have enough minions it's a blank card.
It *is* kinda scary, though. Hm...


It deals the damage to different characters, so no it won't slam something for 6 damage once if you have 4 minions, and your 1. However, if your opponent has a clear board, there's really only one target to 'hit'. If you have 4 more minions than your opponent, it's basically a 3 mana avenging wrath. That repeats each turn if your opponent can't aoe clear the board. Opponents can usually at least 'clear' some of your minions though, this mainly favors the shaman token decks. In terms of shaman token it's kind of a win condition, I mean we already have Patron Warrior for your "aoe or die" shenanigans, for example.

@Chain Lightning: So what would you say is the best case scenario for this card?

Frog Dragon
2015-07-05, 03:06 PM
Well, it deals the most damage in total against three targets. That's probably also where you'd most want to use it, since you're probably 2 or 3 for 1:ing by zapping the opponent's board for 3. At that point it effectively acts as a midpoint between consecration and flamestrike.
The 1 minion and 5 minions cases are the worst, so I'd tier it like this. 3>2=4>5>1. I'm not sure whether the two minions on board case beats the four minions on board case, or vice versa. Paying 5 mana for arcane explosion is definitely shafting yourself though.

Jormengand
2015-07-05, 03:10 PM
I'd say an expensive consecrate that doesn't go face is beneath an expensive, but powerful, multi-shot.

The Glyphstone
2015-07-06, 09:35 PM
Okay, formatted.


Bladestorm
Epic Warrior Spell 4
Deal damage to all minions equal to the number of minions in play.



I reflected a bit, and decided to price it at 4 instead of 5. Brawl costs 5, and is a flat 'Kill Everything But One'. Bladestorm kills better the more targets it hits, but a handful of big beefy monsters will shrug it off.

Frog Dragon
2015-07-07, 04:30 PM
*poke poke*

Judgement?

Dr.Gunsforhands
2015-07-07, 11:30 PM
Okay, in the interest of not making you wait, I've selected a few favorites and a winner:

Bladestorm - This really gets the job done. It's simple enough to explain, but requires significant forethought to realize its true potential, which is not a bad thing. The flavor is sufficiently warrior-y. You do need to do something about your older versions, though. I'm used to such things being spoilered; in other circumstances I might've taken that shadow horde thing as your entry.

Chorus Acolyte - Simple, effective, sensible in a number of board states and can heal your hero more to help outrun a big horde. The flavor text is wonderful and really hard to turn down. You even thought to succinctly clarify that it doesn't count itself! I knew it would be a favorite right when I saw it.

Chain Lightning - Effective, but a bit more complicated than the other two. It feels like it should have overload, but if it did it would probably be... stealing Lightning Storm's thunder. :smallcool:

YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Glyphstone wins!

I'll see about filling in some more reviews tomorrow, but I'll spoiler them in new posts so you don't have to keep looking back here.

The Glyphstone
2015-07-08, 12:32 AM
Woot.


Alright - and the new challenge is:

Create a Class-Specific minion with the Murloc subtype.

Frog Dragon
2015-07-08, 02:07 AM
Yeah I thought overload would be appropriate as well (since every other shaman lightning spell has it), but I just couldn't get it right with overload. 4 mana 1/2 overload would've been too close to Storm, and anything else would've made it overcosted.

GAAD
2015-07-08, 02:23 AM
Silverstomper 2
Rare Paladin Murloc
ALL Silver Hand Recruits are Murlocs.
3/2

onasuma
2015-07-08, 04:07 AM
Murloc Bloodletter 3
Rare warlock minion
Whenever a murloc dies, deal 2 damage to your opponent.
Murloc
2/3

Wayac
2015-07-08, 05:02 AM
Murloc Sentry 2
Rare Rogue minion
Combo: Put a random Murloc card into your hand for every Murloc Sentry still in your deck.
Murloc
2/1

thirsting
2015-07-08, 06:09 AM
Coldlight Cannibal 2
Rare Wizard Murloc
Gains +1 Spell Power whenever a murloc dies.
2/2

It likes to roleplay a zombie, and so only eats the tiny brains of it's fallen friends and relatives.


Brlbrlbrlbrlbrlbrlaaains - :smallyuk:

Gandariel
2015-07-08, 07:00 AM
Coldlight Caller 2
Rare Warlock Minion
Whenever you draw a Murloc, give a random friendly murloc +2/+0
Murloc
2/3


There would also be a cute sound effect (mrlgrlgrl!).

This applies every time YOU draw a card. The boost happens, your opponent doesn't get to see the card (but he'll know it's a murloc)

CarpeGuitarrem
2015-07-08, 07:11 AM
Silverstomper 2
Rare Paladin Murloc
ALL Silver Hand Recruits are Murlocs.
3/2
<cowers in the corner>

I can hear their voices in my head. MRLGLRLRLRLRLRLRLR

They're coming for me.

EDIT: also, my entry. Dunno how to power-adjust it. On the one hand, strictly better than Emperor Cobra (swapping Beast for Murloc synergy and giving a potential buff to more cards), but it's also class-specific. And Murlocs aren't hard to deal with. Plus, they don't want to be destroying minions, they want to be smashing face.

Murloc Stalker (3)
Rare Rogue Murloc
Destroy any minion damaged by a Murloc.
2/3

cha0s4a11
2015-07-09, 07:13 PM
Hmm... I would have preferred to go neutral on this one, but if I have to pick I think they lean a bit Rogue-ish...

Murky 4
Legendary Rogue Minion
Deathrattle: Summon Murky's Egg
3/2
Murloc

Murky's Egg 4
Legendary/Uncollectable Rogue Minion
Stealth. At the end of each turn, destroy this minion and Summon Murky.
0/1
Murloc

Anxe
2015-07-09, 09:35 PM
Mutant Murloc 3
Rare Warrior Murloc
All Murlocs gain +1 attack whenever they take damage.
2/3

Epinephrine_Syn
2015-07-10, 05:41 PM
Frostbitten Murloc Idol: (Mage specific minion)
8 Mana, 6/9, Freeze, Murloc
While this card is in your hand, Murlocs you play gain Freeze and Deathrattle: 50% chance to put a random Murloc in your hand.

Dr.Gunsforhands
2015-07-10, 10:31 PM
Echo Barrier 4
Taunt. Battlecry: for each enemy minion, gain +1/+2.
0/1Echo Barrier actually has a lot going for it: it's still an effective speed bump against a huge minion, and it can better deflect the flurry of small hits that would normally take out something like Annoy-o-tron. I can also see what you were trying to do balance-wise - it's about as good as Sen'jin against a typical board of two or three minions, and in the instances where it's completely insane, it's still vulnerable to silence. The name is also pretty apt for the mechanics. I shied away from it in the end just because its size can vary so very much.


Vengeance Blade 4
Epic Paladin Weapon.
Always has attack equal to the number of minions on the field.
0/3

You will take revenge on your opponent for allowing you to summon that many minions!The flavor text is wonderful. The effect itself feels like it could get all over the place. Also, I'm pretty sure it's destroyed if your opponent can clears the board, which might get frustrating after the first twenty times it happens to you.


Murderhobo 3 mana
Battlecry: Gain 1/1 for every minion your opponent has -1/-1 for every other minion you have
2/2

The Murderhobo doesn't work well with others but he sure is good at killing.If you're far enough behind for this guy's ability to be relevant, he won't do anything to help you. A version of this with Charge might be hilarious, though the name isn't particularly apt either way.


Shy Giant 5
Epic Neutral Minion
This minion has -1/-1 for every other minion on the board
8/8I love shy giant. It is just the most adorable minion. If I wasn't judging and it won I'd think, "yeah, that's cool, good work!" But the way the ability works, 'having,' that debuff... it seems like kind of a logistical nightmare.


Fel Converter 3
Epic Warlock Demon
Each friendly minion counts as extra mana crystals that have 50% chance to be randomly destroyed when used.
3/4

"The reason I tolerate all these guys around? Extra battery."
It's a very complicated ability, but you did manage to put it pretty concisely, which is impressive. I primarily think that the effect is so bizarre and bonkers that this just plain wouldn't work except on a legendary, and even then the potential for mana acceleration on a warlock could easily get out of hand.


Shaman: Death Ward (is a Totem)
3 mana 0/3 Minion
At the end of your turn, deal 2 damage to a random enemy character a number of times equal to the amount of minions you have more than your opponent.
Look at it go! "But Epiiiiii, a Death Ward is supposed to prevent death!"

Murky <2>
Legendary Neutral Minion
Deathrattle: Summon Murky's Egg.
(Murloc)
2/1

Murky's Egg <0>
Legendary Noncollectable Minion
Deathrattle: Summon Murky
(Murloc)
0/1

Shaman is apparently The Murloc Class for some reason, even though Warlocks really do use them more. Hmm...

Murloc Tamer <3>
A murloc is tangled up in a rope attached to the scruffy wolflike beast it was, "taming."
Rare Hunter Minion (Murloc)
Murlocs count as beasts and beasts count as murlocs.
2/4

The jury is still out on whether the murloc is housebroken yet.

CantigThimble
2015-07-10, 11:06 PM
Murloc Mana-Eater 3
Mage Epic
Whenever an opponent casts a spell ALL murlocs gain 1 health.
3/3

Frog Dragon
2015-07-11, 03:21 AM
Murloc Sorcerer 3
Epic Mage Minion
Whenever you cast a spell, summon a non-legendary murloc of the same or lower mana cost.
Murloc
1/3

http://i.imgur.com/uhbEriB.png


Basically it prioritizes murlocs of the same cost, and if none are, it goes down in cost until it finds something. If there are multiple murlocs, it's random.

Jormengand
2015-07-11, 08:30 AM
Mur-lock 6
Rare Warlock Minion
Murlocs are demons and demons are murlocs.
Mrgrguahahaha!
6/6

The Glyphstone
2015-07-15, 06:02 PM
Not as much debate/chatter as previous contests, but I suppose the design space for a Murloc card is a lot more narrow than other concepts.


Silverstomper 2
Rare Paladin Murloc
ALL Silver Hand Recruits are Murlocs.
3/2

Cheap, and gives some synergy between the Paladin hero power and a Murloc deck. And I like the image of a Murloc in plate armor waving a tiny banner.





Murloc Bloodletter 3
Rare warlock minion
Whenever a murloc dies, deal 2 damage to your opponent.
Murloc
2/3

Pretty decent effect and body...but it just doesn't feel like a Warlock card. Retributive/retaliation damage against the enemy are mostly a Warrior or Paladin thing, Warlocks like smacking themselves in the face more. The effect feels Paladin, the name feels Warrior.




Murloc Sentry 2
Rare Rogue minion
Combo: Put a random Murloc card into your hand for every Murloc Sentry still in your deck.
Murloc
2/1

Honestly a bit too weak. Unless you somehow pull off lucky Gang Up shenanigans, or repeatedly bounce this back to your hand, it means you spend one deck slot on a vanilla 2/1 and one one a 2/1 with Battlecry: Add a random murloc to your hand.



Coldlight Cannibal 2
Rare Wizard Murloc
Gains +1 Spell Power whenever a murloc dies.
2/2

It likes to roleplay a zombie, and so only eats the tiny brains of it's fallen friends and relatives.


Nifty, and beneficial to a Mage. Fragile, but what Murloc card won't be - though this will likely be one of the first to die if your murlocs are dying.



Coldlight Caller 2
Rare Warlock Minion
Whenever you draw a Murloc, give a random friendly murloc +2/+0
Murloc
2/3


Cheap, effective, and highly synergistic with both its tribe and the Warlock hero power. I like.




Murloc Stalker (3)
Rare Rogue Murloc
Destroy any minion damaged by a Murloc.
2/3

This, on the other hand, I feel is a bit too strong. The most effective ways to stop a Murloc rush are either AoE spells, which not all classes can pull off, or Taunts that can soak the hits until you stall them out. Giving every Murloc a poison effect removes Taunt as a barrier to the rush.




Murky 4
Legendary Rogue Minion
Deathrattle: Summon Murky's Egg
3/2
Murloc

Murky's Egg 4
Legendary/Uncollectable Rogue Minion
Stealth. At the end of each turn, destroy this minion and Summon Murky.
0/1
Murloc

I like it, but you're right, it'd be better as a Neutral card. The only thing about this that is really Rogue-ish is the addition of Stealth to Murky's Egg.


Mutant Murloc 3
Rare Warrior Murloc
All Murlocs gain +1 attack whenever they take damage.
2/3

Appropriate for a Warrior, though considering how fragile most Murlocs are, its effect likely won't trigger more than once, possibly twice, for any Murloc individually.



Frostbitten Murloc Idol: (Mage specific minion)
8 Mana, 6/9, Freeze, Murloc
While this card is in your hand, Murlocs you play gain Freeze and Deathrattle: 50% chance to put a random Murloc in your hand.

I'm not sure what to think about this one. At 8 mana, it's way too expensive to ever get played in a Murloc deck, but it's effect only works when you don't play it; not an actual 'dead' card in hand, but I'm also not sure how much I like its ability to potentially snowball (heh) infinite Murlocs.





Murloc Tamer <3>
A murloc is tangled up in a rope attached to the scruffy wolflike beast it was, "taming."
Rare Hunter Minion (Murloc)
Murlocs count as beasts and beasts count as murlocs.
2/4

The jury is still out on whether the murloc is housebroken yet.

The visual makes me chuckle, at least. Decent synergy between Hunter and murlocs. I wonder, though, if this is on the field, can a Webspinner's deathrattle give you a Murloc?




Murloc Mana-Eater 3
Mage Epic
Whenever an opponent casts a spell ALL murlocs gain 1 health.
3/3

Solid body, and decent effect. Thematically appropriate to a Mage, though relying on opponent's actions is always iffy.



Murloc Sorcerer 3
Epic Mage Minion
Whenever you cast a spell, summon a non-legendary murloc of the same or lower mana cost.
Murloc
1/3

http://i.imgur.com/uhbEriB.png


Basically it prioritizes murlocs of the same cost, and if none are, it goes down in cost until it finds something. If there are multiple murlocs, it's random.


Looking online, there are 3 1-mana Murlocs, 3 2-mana Murlocs, 3 3-mana Murlocs (2 of which are Battlecry), and 2 4-mana Murlocs (one of which is Legendary, and one is Class-specific). Most good Mage spells are in that range, so I like this one too - though the limiter means any spell of 4 or higher will give you a Siltfin Spiritwalker guaranteed.




Mur-lock 6
Rare Warlock Minion
Murlocs are demons and demons are murlocs.
Mrrguahahaha!
6/6

Meh. Honestly just too expensive for a Murlock deck, and its effect isn't really worth waiting for - by turn 6, your Murlocs will likely either have won or lost you the game.


And my favorites:


Frog Dragon and the Murloc Sorcerer!



GAAD and the Silverstomper!




Gandariel and the Coldlight Caller!

Gandariel
2015-07-16, 04:20 AM
Yee Haw!

New Contest:

MacGyver challenge!

Explaination:

You can take this as literally or metaphorically as you want.
Spare part synergy, more than one effect, Choose-one, one effect that can be used in different ways (see Inner
Rage), a "versatile" card (the first thing that comes to mind is Perdition's Blade)

*Friendly Warning: I know i'm asking for multi-function cards here, but please keep it elegant and simple, try avoiding overcomplicated cards

Frog Dragon
2015-07-16, 05:11 AM
Tough Love 2
Common Warrior Spell
Deal 3 damage to a character. If it survives, restore 9 health to it.
The orcish brand of encouragement can be a little hit or miss.

onasuma
2015-07-16, 05:43 AM
Professional Upgrade 2
Epic Mage Spell
Transform all spare parts in your hand into random mage spells.
I'm pretty sure this blade is actually a flamecanon with just a LITTLE bit of work.

thirsting
2015-07-16, 07:32 AM
Baby Boom 3
Legendary Neutral Minion
Battecry: Transform all Spare Parts in your hand into 1/1 Boom Bots.
2/2

Getting tired of everyone STILL calling her that. She's all grown up now, after all, and blows stuff up responsibly.



http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y382/thirsting/Babyboom_zpsqotnekto.png (http://s1272.photobucket.com/user/thirsting/media/Babyboom_zpsqotnekto.png.html)


http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/hearthstone.gamepedia.com/6/60/Boom_Bot%2812361%29.png?version=26223cf71537cd024e 6945e8e1250e4e


I swear I had this idea before seeing onasuma's post, despite near-identical wording. Boombots are the same ones Dr Boom summons.

CarpeGuitarrem
2015-07-16, 08:42 AM
Tinker's Blessing (3)
Epic Priest Spell
Redraft a friendly minion.

How it works: inspired by a prior challenge, this works a bit like a Recombobulator mixed with a single Arena draft selection. You get to choose between one of three cards with the same rarity.

(Currently keeping it at 3 mana for the Bloodmage Thalnos combo, but maybe that's outright too strong to begin with?)

Jormengand
2015-07-16, 06:03 PM
Weaponise 6
(Picture of a warrior trying to beat someone up with an Annoy-o-Tron)
Epic Warrior Spell
Pick up a mech you control and use it as a weapon.

To clarify, it keeps all its special abilities, possibly allowing you to attack twice (Flying Machine, compare Doomhammer) or blowing up when it dies (Explosive Sheep, compare Death's Bite). Abilities that require it to be a minion (like Alarm-o-bot or Warbot) don't work.

Gandariel
2015-07-17, 03:21 AM
Jormengard, why wouldn't Enrage work? Sounds like something that should work. What about divine shield?

Jormengand
2015-07-17, 08:08 AM
Jormengard, why wouldn't Enrage work? Sounds like something that should work. What about divine shield?

I don't quite remember, but I don't think the weapon actually counts as being damaged by the attack, and it doesn't have health, but durability. That's why corsair doesn't damage the opponent's weapon, but reduces its durability instead.

CarpeGuitarrem
2015-07-17, 08:22 AM
That said, weapons clearly have an analogue to enrage: the Durability displays as red whenever it's beneath its maximum.

That brings me to my question: does the minion's health get converted into Durability?

Jormengand
2015-07-17, 08:25 AM
That said, weapons clearly have an analogue to enrage: the Durability displays as red whenever it's beneath its maximum.

That brings me to my question: does the minion's health get converted into Durability?

Yes. Which means that you may be quite well-off trying to pick up a small tank and hit people with it. But you're a warrior, if you can't suplex a train (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u84cH_bmTA) wield a tank you're doing it wrong.

CarpeGuitarrem
2015-07-17, 08:29 AM
The Force-Tank MAX combo is terrifying. But at least the game won't last long beyond that.

Jormengand
2015-07-17, 08:31 AM
The Force-Tank MAX combo is terrifying. But at least the game won't last long beyond that.

I was thinking siege engine. If you go Siege Engine and hero power, weaponise and hero power, you have yourself a nice 7/5 weapon that's only gonna get stronger (and, admittedly, less durable).

That said, Harrison Jones plays may follow.

Gandariel
2015-07-17, 09:00 AM
I don't quite remember, but I don't think the weapon actually counts as being damaged by the attack, and it doesn't have health, but durability. That's why corsair doesn't damage the opponent's weapon, but reduces its durability instead.

I'm gonna need a clear definition of which abilities are kept and which are not.
Nothing? only the deathrattle? deathrattle, plus windfury and enrage? or is there a checklist of abilities that work?

(Hint: There are two correct answers :P)
Secret hint: Less is more. Keep it simple

Jormengand
2015-07-17, 09:03 AM
I'm gonna need a clear definition of which abilities are kept and which are not.
only the deathrattle? deathrattle, plus windfury and enrage? or is there a checklist?

(Hint: There is a correct answer :P)
Secret hint: Less is more. Keep it simple

Unless the ability specifically requires it to be a minion (for example, to have taken damage, be on the battlefield, etc) the ability functions.

GAAD
2015-07-17, 01:55 PM
Shielded Creeper 5
Rare Neutral Mech
Deathrattle: Summon 2 Cogmasters.
Whenever this minion survives damage, silence it, then give it Divine Shield.
2/5

Goes down in three hits: Guaranteed!

Kish
2015-07-17, 02:07 PM
The Deathrattle will only trigger if something kills it without damaging it at all (Deadly Shot or Assassination, for example). If something does 100 damage to it, it will Enrage before it dies. Is this intended?

GAAD
2015-07-17, 03:53 PM
Ah, no. If something, including damage, one-shots it, you get two Cogmasters as compensation. Lemme change it.

And to make sure it only works once, let's make it a silence with a Grim Patron trigger instead of an Enrage that removes its deathrattle.

Interesting errata: Don't buff it until it silences itself!

Dr.Gunsforhands
2015-07-17, 09:25 PM
Hmm... well, they already made Toshley and Gazlowe, so MacGyver himself is kind of taken for both factions, but we can still do something pretty McGyvery:

Disarm <1>
Common Rogue Spell
Destroy all enemy secrets.
Combo: Silence an enemy minion and give it -3 attack.

Epinephrine_Syn
2015-07-18, 02:14 AM
Here's my entry, rotated purely to backstab you. At least, that's how it appears.

Xanatath
2 Mana, 3/4 Neutral Minion
Choose One: Give enemy control of a minion on your side of the battlefield.
Summon an Annoy-o-Tron onto the enemy's field.

(the first option gives them control of this card if you have no minions on the table)


They say he works in mysterious ways. Perhaps the truth lies in that he doesn't think very highly of you.

Multiple uses for this card.

Give them a 1/1 for a net 2-3.
8 Mana play with Cabal Shadowpriest to take the Annoy-o-Tron back.
6 Mana play with Shadow Madness on your empty board for a Charge 3/4, or trade them another of your minions to take back with Shadow Madness for a second attack, for burst damage.
Patron Warrior, Warsong commander-Xanath-Patron, proc the patron twice on the annoy-o-tron, and Xanatath charges too.
Remember fireballing the enemy's Sylvanas to make them steal your Doomsayer as Freeze Mage? Now you can just 'give' it to them.

cha0s4a11
2015-07-18, 03:07 AM
Disassembly Wrench <4>
Epic Rogue Weapon
Whenever this weapon damages a mech, transform that mech into a Pile of Junk.
1 Attack/3 Durability
Some engineering solutions require you to get your hands dirty.

Pile of Junk <0>
Epic (Uncollectable) Neutral Minion
Whenever this minion takes damage, give a spare part to the player that damaged it.
0/[Original Mech's Health]
Mech


Fairly standard cases:
Using the wrench vs Mechwarper (2/3):
It takes 1 damage from the wrench. (2/2).
Wrench's effect activates transforming it into a Pile of Junk. (0/2)

vs Foe Reaper (6/9):
It takes 1 damage from the wrench. (6/8).
Wrench's effect activates, transforming it into a Pile of Junk (0/8)

A couple weird cases that could be ruled either way depending on if death/deathrattle triggers before/after transformation.
I'm considering that transformation happens before dying, because it's somewhat more thematic:

vs Explosive Sheep (1/1):
It takes 1 damage from the wrench (1/0)
Wrench's effect activates, transforming it into a pile of Junk (0/0)
Pile of Junk has no health and dies.
Pile of Junk is no longer an explosive sheep and so doesn't explode.

vs Harvest Golem (2/3)
It takes 2 damage from somewhere else. (2/1)
It takes 1 damage from the wrench. (2/0)
Wrench's effect activates, transforming it into a pile of Junk (0/0)
Pile of Junk has no health and dies.
Pile of Junk is not Harvest Golem and does not trigger the Deathrattle


I was originally considering something along the lines of having the wrench giving you a "custom part" corresponding to a mech's special abilities (i.e. Use it to kill a snowchugger to get a spell that buffs a minion letting it freeze any minions that it damages), but after considering the potential levels of complexity that introduces (how does that handle Battlecrys, how those parts should be priced, mechs without special abilities, etc) and the limit complexity request from the judge, I've decided to just stick with the more straightforward version above.

Anxe
2015-07-18, 04:39 AM
Shouting Match 2
Rare Warrior Spell
Trigger all of your minion battlecries with random targets.

Not the greatest. Feign Death feels like a MacGyver card to me, so I was trying to make a card that worked the same way for Battlecry. Too many targets at the same time goes against Hearthstone design philosophy, so I made it random. And once I called it "Shouting Match" Warrior made the most sense to use a card named that.

The Glyphstone
2015-07-18, 09:26 AM
Took me a bit to come up with something I like. Macguyver was a tech/inventor, but his real claim to fame was taking multiple small/useless items and putting them together to make a single useful item. So I looked for a Warcraft character with a similar legacy, and came up with this:

Professor Putricide
Legendary Neutral Minion 7
Battlecry: Transform the minions next to this card into one random minion of equal or lower Cost.
6/7
"Good news, everybody! Icecrown Citadel was merely a setback!"

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p116/ArcherYiZe/c8b46b4e.png


It's basically a Recombobulator on steroids - he eats up to two minions (say, a 3-mana and a 4-mana), then spawns you a random 7-mana minion. And like a Void Terror, he can hit only one target, or none at all if you are a bad (or desperate and just want his inferior body).

thirsting
2015-07-18, 09:28 AM
And when it destroys two creatures with 7+ mana...?

The Glyphstone
2015-07-18, 09:31 AM
And when it destroys two creatures with 7+ mana...?

Well, there's always Molten Giant. I originally considered it as a 'equal or higher', but I guess it will seek out the closest value if it can't find something of exact value. Wasn't sure how to word that specifically without either potentially turning Wisps into Deathwings (of equal or higher cost)) or Deathwings into Wisps (of equal or lower cost).

Yeah, that would be a bad trade, since most 7+ mana cards will be really big anyways, but Immune To Bad Player Decisions would be an impossible card ability to write.

Jormengand
2015-07-18, 09:32 AM
Well, there's always Molten Giant. I originally considered it as a 'equal or higher', but I guess it will seek out the closest value if it can't find something of exact value. Wasn't sure how to word that specifically without either potentially turning Wisps into Deathwings (of equal or higher cost)) or Deathwings into Wisps (of equal or lower cost).

"The highest cost that's equal or less"?

The Glyphstone
2015-07-18, 09:33 AM
"The highest cost that's equal or less"?

Hmmm...sure. That works. Yoinked.

Gandariel
2015-07-18, 10:53 AM
In the interest of giving good advice:

Glyphstone, I think this is one of the cases in which you thank Blizzard for not making every card so complicated and look to stuff like Animal Companion.

I suggest you write something like "Destroy the minions on either side of this minion and combine them", and then explain what the card actually does

The Glyphstone
2015-07-18, 03:14 PM
I used the wording of Void Terror, actually, crossed with some of the keywords from Recombobulator...if you think it's too wordy, I'll try and trim it down.

Gandariel
2015-07-18, 03:36 PM
I used the wording of Void Terror, actually, crossed with some of the keywords from Recombobulator...if you think it's too wordy, I'll try and trim it down.

It's, by far, the most wordy card in Hearthstone. (what is the wordiest card? right now i'd say Sword of Justice)

So yes, i would suggest trimming (and possibly using the "Animal Companion" route of trimming

Jormengand
2015-07-18, 04:26 PM
It's, by far, the most wordy card in Hearthstone. (what is the wordiest card? right now i'd say Sword of Justice)

It comes in at 13 words, with
Grove Tender, Goblin Blastmage, Ice Block, Eye for an Eye, Redemption, Bolvar Fordragon, Betrayal, Blood Imp, Imp-losion, Bane of Doom, Anima Golem, Lorewalker Cho, Fel Reaver, Kel'thuzad, Echoing Ooze, Mindgames, Lightwell, Duplicate at 14;
Cone of Cold, Wrath, Shadow Madness, Headcrack, Iron Juggernaut, Mind Control tech., Jeeves, Ragnaros the Firelord, Tracking at 15;
Trade Prince Gallywix, Void Terror, Nat Pagle, Alarm-o-bot, Tinkertown Technician, Emperor Thaurissan at 16;
Illuminator, Imp Master, Revenge, Freezing Trap at 17;
Mimiron's Head at 19;

This new card clocks an impressive 28, topping the current winner which is Mimiron's head by 9, which is 1.5 times as much as Mimiron's head outdoes Sword of Justice. There are, unless I've missed some or miscounted, 38 cards with a greater word count than Sword of Justice.

Why? Because.

Gandariel
2015-07-18, 05:27 PM
Welp. I didn't totally embarass myself at least :D

And, to prove again my point, Mimiron's head would be way more wordy if it actually explained what voltron is

The Glyphstone
2015-07-18, 06:22 PM
Howabout "Battlecry: Transform the minions next to this card into one random minion of equal or lower Cost"?

Down to 17 words. Loses the Deathrattle triggers, but since I'm trying more for a Recombobulation style effect, that is more balanced to the intention anyways. Not sure if I can shrink it down any further - I think it's a fairly elegant mechanic, hopefully balanced for its cost, I just can't word it in a simple manner.

Kish
2015-07-18, 06:36 PM
Welp. I didn't totally embarass myself at least :D

And, to prove again my point, Mimiron's head would be way more wordy if it actually explained what voltron is
All your examples are of cards that bring in noncollectible cards. I'm expecting you to say something about Spare Parts next.

Gandariel
2015-07-19, 04:05 AM
I'm saying this is something Blizzard is doing right.

Since this is not M:tG, you don't need to explain every single thing. You can leave something out, since the game knows what it means.
That's why Fireball doesn't read "Fireball deals 6 damage to target minion or Hero".

My comment to Glyphstone's card was "it's way too wordy and complicated. Try using this "trick" to make it more elegant."

Kish, please actually *read* my post before commenting.
It's not the first time you accuse me of something (after barely reading my post), then disappear when i defend myself.

@Glyphstone: Yeah, that's definitely more elegant. No need to shrink more :)
I would use the word "Combine" instead of "transform" to imply that they're getting fused into one.

Kish
2015-07-19, 07:54 AM
I'm saying this is something Blizzard is doing right.

Since this is not M:tG, you don't need to explain every single thing. You can leave something out, since the game knows what it means.
That's why Fireball doesn't read "Fireball deals 6 damage to target minion or Hero".

My comment to Glyphstone's card was "it's way too wordy and complicated. Try using this "trick" to make it more elegant."

Kish, please actually *read* my post before commenting.
It's not the first time you accuse me of something (after barely reading my post), then disappear when i defend myself.
Uh? Well! Right back at you. I get that you don't think what I'm saying is important. I didn't expect you to. I don't really care whether you do. Can you say I'm wrong? By which I mean, that any of your examples don't work by "bring in an uncollectable card"? (Other than your new one since I observed that, which is simply "this is a card that doesn't deliberately phrase something in a way that requires two extra words.") If, if I've disengaged in the past, it's been in the interests of not bogging the thread down with acrimony, not because I find you frightening or logically unassailable. Considering you're judging the contest, it's appropriate for you to tell people what will get them graded down, but I'm still amused that your examples all work by "bring in an uncollectable card." You have no reason to care that I'm amused, but since you apparently do care in a negative way, complaining about an apparent past history between us (?) is no substitute for actually saying anything that relates to what I said.

Jormengand
2015-07-19, 08:18 AM
Jarraxxus doesn't tell you that he equips a 3/8 weapon (which, yes, is uncollectable) but also doesn't tell you... uh, pretty much any of what "Destroy your hero and replace it with Jaraxxus" actually means. You might be able to guess from Jarraxus' 3/15-ness, but apart from that, not really.

Gandariel
2015-07-19, 08:52 AM
I honestly don't know what the problem is.

What is the issue? That all my examples use "play this uncollectible card"? I can make different ones. It's just that the ones that put new cards in play are an excellent way of explaining my point.

Hearthstone uses this in many of its cards, Fireball being another great example. Or Jaraxxus, or Ysera.
It is a core design choice by Blizzard.
"If there is a way to make the text cleaner and simple, do it. You can even omit details, since this is a video game and there is no possibility for misinterpretation"

They don't tell you many inner details of the game, like which Deathrattles trigger first, or that Jeeves will not kill you if you have no cards in the deck.

And it is a design choice i thoroughly approve, and I (while judging) encourage everyone to acknowledge it. (And so i did regarding Glyphstone's card)

Again, if you feel i haven't answered what you said it's because i honestly don't know what i'm supposed to be answering. Really, i mean no offense.

Kish
2015-07-19, 08:59 AM
I don't know why you think you're supposed to say anything, Gandariel. If I had a question I would have phrased it as a question.

Jormengand
2015-07-19, 09:10 AM
I don't know why you think you're supposed to say anything, Gandariel. If I had a question I would have phrased it as a question.

With all due respect, I think "Can you say I'm wrong? By which I mean, that any of your examples don't work by "bring in an uncollectable card"?" counts as a question.

Now stop being so aggressive already. Cool it. Go out and take a walk for a few minutes, whatever.

Gandariel
2015-07-19, 09:27 AM
Oh, so you were just commenting that you were amused by my peculiar choice of examples.
Got it.

Well, this discussion is doing nothing (because apparently there's nothing to discuss) aside from creating tension, so we'd better just drop it.
No hard feelings. (Also, i invite you to submit your own card!)

CantigThimble
2015-07-19, 11:02 AM
Stormsurge Shaman 3
Shaman Rare
Taunt
Deathrattle: ALL minions have this minion's attack this turn.
1/4

Does work with flametongue and rockbiter.

Jormengand
2015-07-19, 11:09 AM
Stormsurge Shaman 3
Shaman Rare
Taunt
Deathrattle: ALL minions have this minions attack this turn.
1/4

Does work with flametongue and rockbiter.

Uhm, might want an apostrophe. I assumed it was giving them a really janky version of charge for a moment.

Kish
2015-07-19, 12:07 PM
Am I correctly guessing that "does work with Flametongue and Rockbiter" means that if you put a Flametongue Totem next to the Stormsurge Shaman (its attack becomes 3), cast Rockbiter Weapon on it (its attack becomes 6), then kill it by any means, every minion on the field has an Attack of 6 for the rest of the turn?

The Glyphstone
2015-07-19, 12:20 PM
@Glyphstone: Yeah, that's definitely more elegant. No need to shrink more :)
I would use the word "Combine" instead of "transform" to imply that they're getting fused into one.

I'd rather keep Transform for exactly that reason. If you trigger it on, say, a Sunfury Protector (2) and an Acidic Swamp Ooze (2), it might give you a 4-mana Chillwind Yeti or a Spellbreaker. It won't give you an Acidic Swampfury Protectooze. You're getting something entirely new for your troubles (unless you only eat one minion, I guess, in which case it could potentially respawn itself).

CantigThimble
2015-07-19, 02:19 PM
Am I correctly guessing that "does work with Flametongue and Rockbiter" means that if you put a Flametongue Totem next to the Stormsurge Shaman (its attack becomes 3), cast Rockbiter Weapon on it (its attack becomes 6), then kill it by any means, every minion on the field has an Attack of 6 for the rest of the turn?

Yes, whatever it's current attack was at the time of death, that's what it makes every other minion's attack.

CarpeGuitarrem
2015-07-20, 06:53 AM
Tiny wording suggestion: "...have this minion's attack until the end of the turn". A smidge more like Hearthstone's wording.

CantigThimble
2015-07-20, 09:03 AM
Tiny wording suggestion: "...have this minion's attack until the end of the turn". A smidge more like Hearthstone's wording.

More like MTGs wording really, Abusive and Rockbiter both use 'this turn'.

CarpeGuitarrem
2015-07-20, 09:05 AM
More like MTGs wording really, Abusive and Rockbiter both use 'this turn'.
Huh! I hadn't realized that. (Shadow Madness and Power Overwhelming use "end of turn".)

CantigThimble
2015-07-20, 09:08 AM
Hmm, I hadn't noticed those, I guess they use that wording when you lose control of a minion or something. Anyway, I think this is more like rockbiter than PO so I'll leave it as it

CarpeGuitarrem
2015-07-20, 09:39 AM
Hmm, I hadn't noticed those, I guess they use that wording when you lose control of a minion or something. Anyway, I think this is more like rockbiter than PO so I'll leave it as it
Yeah, now that I think about it, the "this turn" is probably the preferred wording, but "end of turn" is necessary for SM and PO because they trigger on specific timings.

Kish
2015-07-20, 10:52 AM
Huh! I hadn't realized that. (Shadow Madness and Power Overwhelming use "end of turn".)
Both of those are referring to something that happens at the end of the turn, like Ragnaros' ability or Kel'Thuzad's. How would they phrase the card's effect avoiding mentioning the end of the turn? "Control target minion with an Attack of 3 or less for this turn" at least only sounds kind of weird, but "minion gains +4 attack and +4 health; minion exists for this turn" would be downright goofy.

Jormengand
2015-07-20, 11:42 AM
Both of those are referring to something that happens at the end of the turn, like Ragnaros' ability or Kel'Thuzad's. How would they phrase the card's effect avoiding mentioning the end of the turn? "Control target minion with an Attack of 3 or less for this turn" at least only sounds kind of weird, but "minion gains +4 attack and +4 health; minion exists for this turn" would be downright goofy.

"Minion gets +4/+4 this turn. Then it dies. Horribly."

Doesn't sound that odd at all.

Kish
2015-07-20, 11:58 AM
If I saw that card description I'd look it up to make sure it wasn't a joke card (or an almost-but-not-completely-useless "when you want to trigger that Deathrattle immediately" card) that immediately exploded the minion, since it only specifies that the horrible death takes place after the buff.

Jormengand
2015-07-20, 12:13 PM
If I saw that card description I'd look it up to make sure it wasn't a joke card (or an almost-but-not-completely-useless "when you want to trigger that Deathrattle immediately" card) that immediately exploded the minion, since it only specifies that the horrible death takes place after the buff.

I would imagine that most readers of that ability would understand that "Then" meant "After this turn" because it does actually say "This turn" on the card.

Epinephrine_Syn
2015-07-21, 11:34 AM
I feel like blizzard has the cards worded in ways that usually make sense, but are more for the enjoyment of the players than anything else. "Warning, Boom Bots May Explode" kind of showcases that they don't necessarily care 100% about 'economy of wording space'.

(Also, edited some combo uses onto my card's post)

Gandariel
2015-07-22, 05:50 AM
Yes.

But it is only in cases where the card itself wasn't particularly wordy in the first place. (Boom, Power Overwhelming).

Also, in the case of Dr Boom it gives some sort of extra information. (It says, those Bots are not vanilla)

Gandariel
2015-07-23, 04:24 AM
THE JUDGERNAUT IS HERE.

Thank god i have a decent typing speed. This was 4 pages of text.



Tough Love 2
Common Warrior Spell
Deal 3 damage to a character. If it survives, restore 9 health to it.
The orcish brand of encouragement can be a little hit or miss.

Very interesting concept.
ď2 mana, deal 3 damageĒ with an upside is kind of standard.
This has the upside of also being able to heal. For a lot.

The more i go over this card, the more i realize that itís really just ďdeal 3 damageĒ for 2 mana. VERY few cases where you can (and want) to heal a minion (it has to have high health and still have 4+ left. So that leaves..Ö wounded ysera?)
Very few cases where killing something is less important than gaining 6 health (since a random 3/3 would deal you the 6 damage in two attacks).
Very few cases where you canít deal the 3 damage to an enemy (you just have to make sure you cast this to finish off the minion).
So, while interesting, i donít believe all these niche uses actually work much. Still, points for originality (and for 12-damage Auchenai blast)





Professional Upgrade 2
Epic Mage Spell
Transform all spare parts in your hand into random mage spells.
I'm pretty sure this blade is actually a flamecanon with just a LITTLE bit of work.

OOOOH. shiny!
Very good interpretation of the challenge. 10/10.
Now for balance. This card would obviously only fit in Mech mage, and ideally replace Antonidas. Ideally you want to hit 2-3 spare parts with this, and the result is very variable (but generally really good).
This card obviously risks being a blank, and sometimes you will be forced to cast that Emergency Coolant for another purpose. But i like it!
It does perform the same role as Antonidas, but itís faster and cheaper to activate, while Antonidas (in Mech Mage) usually has to wait until turn 8-9.



Baby Boom 3
Legendary Neutral Minion
Battecry: Transform all Spare Parts in your hand into 1/1 Boom Bots.
2/2

Getting tired of everyone STILL calling her that. She's all grown up now, after all, and blows stuff up responsibly.


Another nice interpretation of the challenge, good job.
This card, though, feels a bit too weak.
Again, comparing this to Antonidas (and Professional Upgrade) this card rewards you if youíve been hoarding 2-3 Spare parts.
 So ideally youíre playing this in the lategame, and using it as finisher. Antonidas and Professional Upgrade *do* provide a finisher. This one really doesnít. And if youíre playing it in the early game, maybe only hitting one Spare part, itís pretty much Gnomish Experimenter-level.
Overall good interpretation, but the card feels too weak.



Tinker's Blessing (3)
Epic Priest Spell
Redraft a friendly minion.

How it works: inspired by a prior challenge, this works a bit like a Recombobulator mixed with a single Arena draft selection. You get to choose between one of three cards with the same rarity.


Yeah, iím gonna say i donít like the whole ďredraftĒ mechanic. I would be more open to the idea if it was something more like a controlled Recombobulator (it shows you 3 cards with the same cost, you pick one). But as is, i donít really like it. Wisp, redraft into Forcetank?
It is a gimmicky thing, and it might even win games. But itís not something iíd like to see in the game



Weaponise 6
(Picture of a warrior trying to beat someone up with an Annoy-o-Tron)
Epic Warrior Spell
Pick up a mech you control and use it as a weapon.


The problem with these kinds of cards is, while creating you think of one specific combo and forget about the big picture.
You think about a 2-turn, 2-card 11-mana combo (15 with the hero powers) that may give you a 7/5 weapon (which is really not much better than Gorehowl) if the opponent doesnít reactÖ.
And forget the big picture: this card is way overcosted.
This, plus Spider tank? 9 mana 3/4 weapon that costs 2 cards.
This plus Force tank Max? 14 mana 7/7 weapon (again, not much better than Gorehowl) that costs two (BIG) cards.
This card should cost something like 3 to even be playable. I like the idea (and the thought of piledriving trains), but the mechanic doesnít really work. I also donít really like the non clear wording on what abilities are kept or not. A hard and fast rule (like, only the deathrattles) would have been cleaner.




Shielded Creeper 5
Rare Neutral Mech
Deathrattle: Summon 2 Cogmasters.
Whenever this minion survives damage, silence it, then give it Divine Shield.
2/5

Goes down in three hits: Guaranteed!

Ohoo. Thatís a clever one.
I donít get why it would summon Cogmasters (i would have gone with Clockwork Gnomes) but the mechanic, while a bit complex, is really pretty.
I know i generally penalize overly complex cards, but this one really works, and there are no really easy ways of rendering your idea. Balance wise.. iím gonna say itís pretty OK. Maybe not top-tier, but solid.





Disarm <1>
Common Rogue Spell
Destroy all enemy secrets.
Combo: Silence an enemy minion and give it -3 attack.

Ookay. so. My main problem with this card is that the three effects just look like theyíve been slapped together, and the disarming theme doesnít really connect them much.
When you silence something you usually donít need to give it -attack, but it has its uses.
This card might just be too versatile for my tastes. Blowing up secrets for 1 mana (while the Combo effect is pretty much worth a 1-mana card on its own) seems like a bit too strong for a tech card. Also i donít believe this should be Common, but thatís very, very minor.






Xanatath
2 Mana, 3/4 Neutral Minion
Choose One: Give enemy control of a minion on your side of the battlefield.
Summon an Annoy-o-Tron onto the enemy's field.
(the first option gives them control of this card if you have no minions on the table)
They say he works in mysterious ways. Perhaps the truth lies in that he doesn't think very highly of you.



Oookay. First off, i really enjoyed reading the combo uses. Very imaginative and fun. That being said, this card looks too weak. Something like a smaller Hungry Dragon, but Hungry dragon is bigger AND gives the opponent a weaker card. Giving out an Annoy-o-tron is really, really too much of a downside. And you wonít always have a random 1/1 to toss out.
Also, with the new card reveal, Totem Golem blows this thing out the water



Disassembly Wrench <4>
Epic Rogue Weapon
Whenever this weapon damages a mech, transform that mech into a Pile of Junk.
1 Attack/3 Durability
Some engineering solutions require you to get your hands dirty.

Pile of Junk <0>
Epic (Uncollectable) Neutral Minion
Whenever this minion takes damage, give a spare part to the player that damaged it.
0/[Original Mech's Health]
Mech


Iím going to be quick with this one: I donít like it. A four-mana weapon that only works against Mechs and sorta-kinda-destroys them?
The only mech decks around are aggro, so this card is generally useless (you usually canít afford to kill 3 mechs with your face). And against nonmechs, itís just painfully bad.
This is too weak a tech card (compare with Kezan Mystic, which is almost decent alone)




Shouting Match 2
Rare Warrior Spell
Trigger all of your minion battlecries with random targets.


Hmmmm. Iím going to say that, while i appreciate the idea, i donít like the result mechanically.
See, Deathrattles are *meant* to be able to work on their own (because they might trigger when itís not your turn).
Doing the same thing with Battlecries.. doesnít really work as well. I mean, it does work with things like Bomb Lobber or Antique healbot, but i donít really like the feel of this card.
To put it another way, looking at this and Feign Death, itís really easy to guess which one is an official card and which one isnít.





Professor Putricide
Legendary Neutral Minion 7
Battlecry: Transform the minions next to this card into one random minion of equal or lower Cost.
6/7
"Good news, everybody! Icecrown Citadel was merely a setback!"



Hmmm. Hmm, hmm,hmm.
I like this submission!
Balance-wise Ö. iím having a hard time evaluating it. 
The easiest way is probably comparing it to Void Terror.
Void terror is not that good, because of the all-eggs-in-a-basket effect. It *is* used nowadays, but only for combos (Egg or Power Overwhelming).
Professor Putricide is.. probably not the strongest card around. Fusing together two minions *may* yield more value than the two original ones, but it also may not. And you might just not want to use the ability.
I like the fact that the effect is just recombobulator if you play it on the side.





Stormsurge Shaman 3
Shaman Rare
Taunt
Deathrattle: ALL minions have this minion's attack this turn.
1/4


Hmm.
Big effect. Needs to be evaluated with attention.
Offensively: You buff this card, then trade it, and give a buff to all your other minions? Sounds kinda unlikely. Iíd rather just play Bloodlust.
Defensively: Hereís a problem. This card has basically Frost Nova as a deathrattle. I am not sure i like this.
I do enjoy the fact that a zoo opponent might Abusive this card, kill it and then rush you.

Oookay.
Lots of entries, hope i judged them well enough. Now, time to pick a winner.


onasuma, GAAD and The Glyphstone

Congrats to you all. i like all of your cards, and how each of you interpreted the challenge.

But alas, there can only be one winner.
So, third place goes to...

The Glyphstone. Nothing really wrong with your card, but the other two are really clever and well-designed. Still, congrats :)
Second place goes to...
GAAD, which means this week's winner is onasuma!!!

Both of you had really well-implemented cards, but onasuma interpreted the challenge in the most interesting way.
Also, while i wouldn't suprised to see both your cards in the game, i'd be happier to see onasuma's

Congrats!



Gonna go rest my hands now. Congrats to everyone!

onasuma
2015-07-23, 04:31 AM
What a happy time! Grats to all!

This week's challenge is what I feel everyone would, in my position, be requesting:

Make a card with Inspire!

CarpeGuitarrem
2015-07-23, 07:01 AM
Yeah, I would've definitely chosen that as the challenge had I won. xD

hmm hmm hmm. What to do...what to do.

thirsting
2015-07-23, 08:21 AM
Inspire 2
Common Paladin Spell
All friendly minions gain "Inspire: +1 attack"

"Yo mon, I herd yo like recursion.."

(no, this is not my submission)

Jormengand
2015-07-23, 09:36 AM
Silver Hand Legionnaire 5
Rare paladin minion
Inspire: get Divine Shield.
5/3

Anxe
2015-07-23, 09:48 AM
Righteous Paladin 2
Common Paladin Minion
Inspire: Gain +1/+1 for every Silver Hand Recruit you control.
1/1

http://www.hearthcards.net/cards/091c45f0.png

Obviously meant to be comboed with Muster for Battle. It does gain a +1/+1 for the Recruit that comes into play as well. So on an empty board if you play this and Hero Power it will be a 2/2.

Frog Dragon
2015-07-23, 09:53 AM
So if you have this, and then you play muster+heropower, it will gain +4/+4 and become a 5/5? And if none of the recruits die and you heropower again, it'll become a 10/10?

Because that's how the wording works out right now.

Jormengand
2015-07-23, 10:11 AM
It does gain a +1/+1 for the Recruit that comes into play as well.

I would imagine, actually, that it wouldn't. I'm just making guesses about the order in which inspire resolves, but try playing a spell when you have a gadgetzan on the field: the draw happens before the spell effect. Similarly, battlecries and deathrattles interrupt the effect that puts the creature down or kills it (hence the fact you can't shattered sun/brewmaster the shattered/brew itself and that Malorne's deathrattle works at all).

Anxe
2015-07-23, 01:03 PM
I would imagine, actually, that it wouldn't. I'm just making guesses about the order in which inspire resolves, but try playing a spell when you have a gadgetzan on the field: the draw happens before the spell effect. Similarly, battlecries and deathrattles interrupt the effect that puts the creature down or kills it (hence the fact you can't shattered sun/brewmaster the shattered/brew itself and that Malorne's deathrattle works at all).

I imagine it working that way once Inspire is released as well, but I get to decide how it works for now!

Muster + Paladin + Hero Power would get you a 5/5 for a total of 7 mana.
Muster + Frostwulf gets you a 7/7 for 8 mana for a comparison.

The Paladin can keep getting bigger, it's true. Especially with the Dragon that lets you keep using your hero power. I think it'd be a crap card at 3 mana though. As it stands now, it's a little bad without Muster and good with Muster if you can keep it and the Recruits alive for 2 turns.

Frog Dragon
2015-07-23, 01:05 PM
Mercenary Warlock 4
Rare Neutral Minion
Inspire: Draw a card and deal 2 damage to this minion.
2/6

http://i.imgur.com/bv2JWNP.png

CarpeGuitarrem
2015-07-23, 01:29 PM
EDIT: Meh, I found an idea I like better.

Forbidden Summoning Circle (4)
Rare Priest Minion
Spell Damage +1
Inspire: Summon a Blood Imp
0/6

P3-W Arm Cannon (3)
Rare Warrior Weapon
Inspire: deal 1 damage to two random minions.
2/3

GAAD
2015-07-23, 04:53 PM
...:smallconfused:

Why is everybody making their Inspires GOOD?

Lumber Golem 4
Rare Neutral Minion
Inspire: Your opponent draws a card.
5/5

Mill is best meta chainsaw OP plz nerf

thirsting
2015-07-23, 05:18 PM
Rock Throwing Contest 2
Rare Warrior Spell
ALL minions gain "Can't Attack. Inspire: Deal 1 damage to a random enemy."

Who ever came up with this dumb idea should be stoned.

Jormengand
2015-07-23, 05:20 PM
Why is everybody making their Inspires GOOD?

Because shaman won't miss his hero power? Warrior probably won't miss it much either if he's not built for it. Some types of hunter won't either.


Who ever came up with this dumb idea should be stoned.

I was thinking "Must have been" rather than "Should be." :smalltongue:

Anxe
2015-07-23, 05:22 PM
Rock Throwing Contest 2
Rare Warrior Spell
ALL minions gain "Can't Attack. Inspire: Deal 1 damage to a random enemy."

Who ever came up with this dumb idea should be stoned.

How does this one work with Spell Damage?

Jormengand
2015-07-23, 05:27 PM
How does this one work with Spell Damage?

It doesn't, presumably. Inspire would be a quality of the minion, not of the spell itself.

The Glyphstone
2015-07-24, 12:45 PM
Grumblegrumble. I was all set to write up a Warlock card that had a Thaurissian-like cost reduction Inspire effect. Then Blizzard goes and upstages me with Wilfred Fizzlebang.

Misothene
2015-07-25, 12:09 AM
Noggrin Onetooth (http://wowwiki.wikia.com/Noggrin_Onetooth) 4
Legendary Neutral Minion
Spell Damage +1
Inspire- gain an additional Spell Damage +1.
3/5
He CAN take candle.