Some advice for my Shapeshift Druid Build

[Uzgul]

Greetings,
I am building a level 14 Druid with Shapeshift ACF and need some advice for feats and items. I am planing on not using lots of spells as we already have more than enough casters in the party, but lack decent melee fighters.

This is what I got so far:
Human
Str 18
Dex 14
Con 16
Int 14
Wis 14
Cha 8
(36 Point buy)

Shapeshift Druid 12 / Warshaper 2

Items:
+2 Wild Darkwood Breastplate
+2 Wild Heavy Wooden Shield (considiring my DM allows the Wild property for Shapeshift)
+6 Amulett of Wisdom (to be able to cast higher level Spells)

Feats:
Improved Natural Attack
Multiattack
Improved Multiattack
Travel Devotion


I also have a question about how natural weapons work with extra attack from BAB.
Do I get +10/+5 Bite, +10 Claw, +10 Claw as a Full Attack because of Improved Multiattack? (having 2 Claws and 1 Bite)

[Talya]

1) I apologize in advance. I avoid the shapeshift ACF like the plague, so I have little to suggest.
2) If you're not going to focus on spells, you'd be FAR better off going with standard wildshape. Standard Wildshape is a much better melee option, and also it doesn't cost you your animal companion to stay with it.

I mean, i approve of focusing on melee combat so as not to overshadow the party, but Wildshape is your best way to do that. The shapeshift ACF is a good way to tone down the power level of a druid in a lower-op party (though it doesn't drop it below tier 1), but you're already toning down the druid just by focusing on melee instead of spellcasting. To further gimp yourself by using an inferior melee option - especially in a caster-heavy party, may make you feel a little useless once combat starts. The Shapeshift ACF is really better for someone who wants to focus only on spellcasting, as it removes the DruidZilla option.

[lytokk]

Instead of the Wild armor property (+3 bonus) most people suggest using wilding clasps, which only cost 2000 gold, and I think are in either the MiC or the Arms and Equipment guide. Same function, but cost a lot less and don't drive up the cost of a set of armor.

Also, there's an amulet in one of the books which you can enchant just like a weapon, and those weapon properties are extended to your natural weapons. Put a clasp on that and then all of those weapon enchants transfer to your natural weapons when shifted/wildshaped.

Just some thoughts people suggest typically when dealing with druids.

[eggynack]

I don't think that either wild armor, or wilding clasps, work with shapeshift, and neither do I think that it qualifies you for warshaper. Truly it is a silly little ACF. As for your question about natural attacks, they do not have iteratives at all. You just hit once with each weapon.

[Uzgul]

Instead of the Wild armor property (+3 bonus) most people suggest using wilding clasps, which only cost 2000 gold, and I think are in either the MiC or the Arms and Equipment guide. Same function, but cost a lot less and don't drive up the cost of a set of armor.

Also, there's an amulet in one of the books which you can enchant just like a weapon, and those weapon properties are extended to your natural weapons. Put a clasp on that and then all of those weapon enchants transfer to your natural weapons when shifted/wildshaped.

Just some thoughts people suggest typically when dealing with druids.
Thanks, I didn't know these exist. I guess I will focus on getting items to buff me in melee then.


1) I apologize in advance. I avoid the shapeshift ACF like the plague, so I have little to suggest.
2) If you're not going to focus on spells, you'd be FAR better off going with standard wildshape. Standard Wildshape is a much better melee option, and also it doesn't cost you your animal companion to stay with it.

I mean, i approve of focusing on melee combat so as not to overshadow the party, but Wildshape is your best way to do that. The shapeshift ACF is a good way to tone down the power level of a druid in a lower-op party (though it doesn't drop it below tier 1), but you're already toning down the druid just by focusing on melee instead of spellcasting. To further gimp yourself by using an inferior melee option - especially in a caster-heavy party, may make you feel a little useless once combat starts. The Shapeshift ACF is really better for someone who wants to focus only on spellcasting, as it removes the DruidZilla option.
Our campaign is pretty low-op and rp focused. As long as I can keep up with a Barbarian or Paladin it's fine.
I know, that standard wildshape is the stronger option, but I realy like the at will swift shifting far more.


EDIT:

I don't think that either wild armor, or wilding clasps, work with shapeshift, and neither do I think that it qualifies you for warshaper. Truly it is a silly little ACF.
By RAW not, but I guess my DM will allow it, just because it makes sense.


As for your question about natural attacks, they do not have iteratives at all. You just hit once with each weapon.
thanks

[eggynack]

Our campaign is pretty low-op and rp focused. As long as I can keep up with a Barbarian or Paladin it's fine.
I know, that standard wildshape is the stronger option, but I realy like the at will swift shifting far more.
That's fair, I suppose, though you may be overrating its at-will and swift nature by some. With wild shape, you don't really need it to be either, because natural spell lets you pal around as a whatever all day, and besides, a mantle of the beast (CC, 140) can replicate the swift part. Wild shape just lets you do a bunch of cool stuff, and it can be augmented in ways that shapeshift can't be. That's the real tragedy of the ACF, I think, that you're losing not only the superior base ability, but also the massive set of things that work well with it, leaving you with a lower power level at both the floor and ceiling.


By RAW not, but I guess my DM will allow it, just because it makes sense.
Yeah, it's probably a logical way to go about it.

[Trundlebug]

If you are not stuck on Human, Shifter works ok with this.

From what I can tell the 1/4 druid level enhancement bonus stacks with a shifters untyped +1 every 4 lvls. Improved natural attack and (I think) Multiattack count as shifter feats. Give your predator form claws from the get go or better nat armor or both. Shift when you shift!

Alternately if you are more into combat and less spells and your DM allows ACF chaining go wildshape ranger, swapping wildshape and AC for shapeshift and fast movement as barbarian. Druid may be more appealing if BAB isn't your thing.

Not the best solution but enables you to attach some combat stuff to your form depending on feats ex. Shifter rend etc. Also remember you can give up spontaneous casting and AC for fast movement and rage. Lot's you can do with a druid.

Frankly I wish there were ACF's that allowed me to ditch spellcasting and AC and cram the ACF's deadly hunter and druidic avenger onto a wildshape chassis. Yes, I said ditch spells lol.

[eggynack]

From what I can tell the 1/4 druid level enhancement bonus stacks with a shifters untyped +1 every 4 lvls. Improved natural attack and (I think) Multiattack count as shifter feats. Give your predator form claws from the get go or better nat armor or both. Shift when you shift!
I don't think that the shifter trait natural weapons and the shapechange natural weapons stack like that. That shifter damage thing isn't a bonus, but just a quality of the weapon. In this fashion, the claw deals 1d4+3 at 12th level, rather than 1d4, and also here's a +3 untyped bonus to claw attacks for you. As for the shapeshift bonus, it explicitly says "These natural weapons" rather than just "Natural weapons you have". It just seems incompatible.

[Trundlebug]

I don't think that the shifter trait natural weapons and the shapechange natural weapons stack like that. That shifter damage thing isn't a bonus, but just a quality of the weapon. In this fashion, the claw deals 1d4+3 at 12th level, rather than 1d4, and also here's a +3 untyped bonus to claw attacks for you. As for the shapeshift bonus, it explicitly says "These natural weapons" rather than just "Natural weapons you have". It just seems incompatible.

Oh it very well might not. I haven't played around with shifters since they came out and have never had someone use the shapeshift ACF.

That said I kinda want to make a shifter now and will look into ze books in a while. RAW aside I would totally allow it, it's not going to shatter the world :smallwink:.

[eggynack]

That said I kinda want to make a shifter now and will look into ze books in a while. RAW aside I would totally allow it, it's not going to shatter the world :smallwink:.
Shifter druids are sweet, but less so for this purpose. You pick up the shifter druid substitution levels, particularly the first and fourth ones (and never the fifth), and then pop over into moonspeaker for four levels. You end up with a pretty heavy summoning focus, cause that's what all of the abilities are geared towards, and the ultimate build looks like druid 8/moonspeaker 4/druid 8, such that you gain rapid summoning from beast spirit. You can also toss in the whole holt warden 1/contemplative 1 combo for bonus magic, cause moonspeaker conveniently gets knowledge religion. It's a solid archetype overall, though perhaps not one geared toward your face punching druid style preference.

[Trundlebug]

Shifter druids are sweet, but less so for this purpose. You pick up the shifter druid substitution levels, particularly the first and fourth ones (and never the fifth), and then pop over into moonspeaker for four levels. You end up with a pretty heavy summoning focus, cause that's what all of the abilities are geared towards, and the ultimate build looks like druid 8/moonspeaker 4/druid 8, such that you gain rapid summoning from beast spirit. You can also toss in the whole holt warden 1/contemplative 1 combo for bonus magic, cause moonspeaker conveniently gets knowledge religion. It's a solid archetype overall, though perhaps not one geared toward your face punching druid style preference.

Lol no no. That is way too easy. I've been playing a long time and I kinda don't like playing the more powerful classes anymore. Haven't played a wizard in ages not that I get to play a lot. No druid is druid and moonspeaker is pretty damn sweet in combo with shifter sub levels. I'm thinking Warblade/Warshaper/Weretouched Master/Bloodclaw Master but I can already see skills will be a problem for Weretouched and from what I recall I don't want to leave it late. Probably needs more barb.

Anyways not going to hijack thread, maybe I'll make one for that. I'll check books about that shapshift/shift stack. Probably won't but such is things.