Pathfinder spell clarification: Frostbite

[Nibbens]

After reading this spell (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spells/frostbite.html#_frostbite) for my magus, I was wondering about the last sentence in the spell: "You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level."
Does that mean if I have two attacks per round, I can spellstrike with this spell twice in a round as per my normal attacks per round? (if this is true, then it opens up a whole different bottle of worms)

Or does this mean something different? The only other possibility I can think of here is that this spell will not be totally discharged upon the first attack - however that would contradict the "instantaneous" duration.

Can anyone provide info on how the last line of this spell is meant to function within the confines of the Magus Spellstrike?

[Feint's End]

It doesn't break the normal limit of 1 spellstrike per round. It just lets you use spellstrike using the same spell in the following rounds as long as you have charges left. Meaning you cast this once and then you can use the same spellstrike for xy more rounds. Quite nice for longer combats.

[weckar]

1 spellstrike per round? I don't see that limit anywhere.

Anyway, I fail to see how you could spellstrike with it more than once anyway, even over multiple rounds. To spellstrike, it has to be combined with the casting of the spell, not the making additional melee touch attacks for it.

[Nibbens]

Anyway, I fail to see how you could spellstrike with it more than once anyway, even over multiple rounds. To spellstrike, it has to be combined with the casting of the spell, not the making additional melee touch attacks for it.

Then what does the last line of the spell mean? lol.

[Peelee]

Assuming the following description I got is correct (emphasis mine)...

Frostbite
School transmutation [cold]; Level druid 1, magus 1, witch 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range touch
Targets creature touched
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes
Your melee touch attack deals 1d6 points of nonlethal cold damage + 1 point per level, and the target is fatigued. The fatigued condition ends when the target recovers from the nonlethal damage. This spell cannot make a creature exhausted even if it is already fatigued. You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level.

You're limited to once per round, unless you find some way to get more than one standard action per round.

[Feint's End]

1 spellstrike per round? I don't see that limit anywhere.

Anyway, I fail to see how you could spellstrike with it more than once anyway, even over multiple rounds. To spellstrike, it has to be combined with the casting of the spell, not the making additional melee touch attacks for it.

"Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell."

You are right that by RAW those two have to be combined but only a very strict DM would enforce the rule in this certain case because it makes the spell much weaker for the Magus (close to useless except for the one touch attack you get during the first round) and I doubt it would be RAI.

[DarkSonic1337]

Direct Quote from the Magus FAQ


If I cast a spell that allows multiple touch attacks, can I deliver all of those spell touches through my weapon?

Yes. For example, if you cast chill touch (which allows multiple touch attacks), you could use spellstrike to cast and deliver the spell through your weapon, and in later weapon attacks you could use your weapon to deliver the remaining spell touch attacks (one spell touch attack per weapon attack).

If you have multiple attacks per round with that weapon (such as from having a BAB of +6 or higher), you can use the weapon to deliver multiple spell touch attacks per round, so long as you have uses of that spell touch attack remaining.

For example, if you are an 8th-level magus (BAB +6/+1) and you cast chill touch, you have up to 8 uses of that spell touch attack. If you make two weapon attacks in a round, you can deliver two spell touch attacks per round (one for each successful weapon attack).

Relevant parts bolded.

Since FAQ rulings for pathfinder are RAW http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qbfv?The-Rules-FAQ-and-How-to-Use-It#1 (which is a horrible way to do errata imo) the answer is that yes, you can use Frostbite's multiple uses on subsequent spell strikes. The normal "holding the charge" rules apply so you can't cast spells between these uses (as you'll lose the charge for frostbite as soon as you cast another spell).

[weckar]

Welp, looks like we both goofed on this one, Feint's :P

[StreamOfTheSky]

Using spellstrike, you get to turn the touch attack of the spell into a bonus attack with your weapon, which now houses the spell. From then on, until you cast another spell (doing so discharges a held spell) or run out of uses of the spell (note only hits count, misses do not expend a use), every hit with your weapon unleashes the spell again. Just as if you were using it normally, you'd be free to make melee touch attacks with each attack you're allowed to deliver another dose of frostbite. Except for a magus, it's in his weapon.

You "can only spellstrike with it once" in regards to getting the extra attack. You can keep stabbing away with more charges of frostbite after that as much as you want/can.

[Feint's End]

Direct Quote from the Magus FAQ



Relevant parts bolded.

Since FAQ rulings for pathfinder are RAW (which is a horrible way to do errata btw) the answer is that yes, you can use Frostbite's multiple uses on subsequent spell strikes. The normal "holding the charge" rules apply so you can't cast spells between these uses (as you'll lose the charge for frostbite as soon as you cast another spell).

Good find!

But wait a second the example doesn't calculate the additional attack from Spellstrike :smalleek:. Kinda odd example

edit: thanks for claryfying StreamofSky

[DarkSonic1337]

The example has isn't dysfunctional imo. With bab 6 you can indeed deliver 2 uses of a touch spell every round. The example doesn't highlight the fact that you can use the free touch attack from casting the spell to deliver a spellstrike on the first round, but it doesn't contradict it at any point either.

It's not highlighting the combination of spell strike and SPELL COMBAT with the multi use touch spell, which could let you potentially get 3 uses of it on round one (and then 2 on subsequent rounds as normal for 6 bab), but that's because it's only talking about spellstrike.

Think of spellstrike as literally just an alternative for using melee touch attacks to deliver spells. The FAQ makes this intent quite clear with this quote


On a related topic, the magus touching his held weapon doesn’t count as “touching anything or anyone” when determining if he discharges the spell. A magus could even use the spellstrike ability, miss with his melee attack to deliver the spell, be disarmed by an opponent (or drop the weapon voluntarily, for whatever reason), and still be holding the charge in his hand, just like a normal spellcaster. Furthermore, the weaponless magus could pick up a weapon (even that same weapon) with that hand without automatically discharging the spell, and then attempt to use the weapon to deliver the spell. However, if the magus touches anything other than a weapon with that hand (such as retrieving a potion), that discharges the spell as normal.

Basically, the spellstrike gives the magus more options when it comes to delivering touch spells; it’s not supposed to make it more difficult for the magus to use touch spells.

[Yanisa]

Assuming the following description I got is correct (emphasis mine)...


You're limited to once per round, unless you find some way to get more than one standard action per round.

Relevant to your point.


Touch

You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action.

Spellstrike overwrites this though, by specifically stating one melee attack only during the casting, and then allows iterative attacks on subsequent combat rounds (like the quoted FAQ entry points out).

[Peelee]

Relevant to your point.



Spellstrike overwrites this though, by specifically stating one melee attack only during the casting, and then allows iterative attacks on subsequent combat rounds (like the quoted FAQ entry points out).

So I gathered from subsequent replies, but thank you for showing me the exact wording on my mistake. I'm very intrigued about Pathfinder and just starting to look into it.

[Yanisa]

So I gathered from subsequent replies, but thank you for showing me the exact wording on my mistake. I'm very intrigued about Pathfinder and just starting to look into it.

My point would have been more relevant if I wasn't so slow. :smalltongue:

I do wonder if you can you Spell Combat to get a full round of melee attacks and 6 touch attacks to boot, it seems RAW, although you might need 6 different targets to touch.

[Nibbens]

Okay, since that is cleared up and it seems possible to attack a target with the same spell twice in the same round with Spellstrike (as long as there are more uses of the spell to discharge), my next question -
Let's say that a Magus using spellstrike and a spell that has multiple uses were to be making two unarmed attacks per round with different hands (as per Improved unarmed strike and TWF feats). Would the spell affect both hands or only one? I think the answer is one, but I just want to make sure. Any insight here?