Help with druid character?

[cobaltstarfire]

Hello, I'm playing what looks to be a really really useless character (mechanically) so far and I was wondering if I could get some advice for what exactly I should do with her in the future to make her not be a giant waste of space. I'm not really an optimizer and that's not what I'm asking for help with, so much as how to be reasonably useful.

I'm being vague because we're keeping our character sheets secret, and the game is on here. :smalltongue:


The game is core only (DMG/PHB/MM), 28 point buy, lv 1. I was limited in what I could chose for an animal companion, so I have a small viper. Friendly fire is on, and my character is a Kobold so you can imagine her stats aren't especially steller for an adventurer other than her wisdom. (don't look at me like that, I like Kobolds...) But I do think I botched how I allocated her stats some.


Now most of my experience is with utility+ blasting wizards, so I'm not really sure what I should do here until I have more spell slots available to me. I've always wanted to give druid a try, but now I'm feeling really worried that I've made a pretty big mistake and am going to just let my party down continuously.

So uh, can you guys give me some hints/suggestions for how I should handle her on the crunchy side of things. Or what I can try to do in the future to improve her as she levels up?

Edit: Bolded some things for clarity

[eggynack]

You shouldn't be too worried about this stuff, cause druids are crazy powerful, even in core. Mostly, your ability to function is going to be rooted in the spells you prepare and cast, both now and in the future. As you're in core, you should mostly focus on entangle, as it's a frigging amazing chunk of spellcraft. Maybe prep a couple of those, actually. You might also be interested in obscuring mist as a decent defensive option, and maybe prep some goodberry if you have time out of combat, cause they last. For zeroth's, I advise a reasonable split between detect magic, because it provides unique utility, cure minor wounds, because it can stabilize allies (and can be used at the end of the day for free healing), and create water, cause it has some other random utility. That setup should make you pretty effective, all on its own.

As for build stuff, you're going to want to take natural spell at 6th, because it's amazing, but you're reasonably open beyond that. Augment summoning is a good option, so you should spend the two feats to get that, and then maybe some extend spell, craft wondrous item, and improved initiative. Losing a serious animal companion hurts, as a small viper isn't going to do much compared to one of the big beatstick options, so you might want to mention your list of choices, such that you can pull an improvement. Riding dog is at the very top of the curve, if you can manage that. As for stats, as long as you have high wisdom and reasonable constitution, you should be fine. If you only have the high wisdom half, you're still pretty much fine, though you should stay away from the front lines more.

As a final note, you should keep careful note of the choices available from summon nature's ally, because spontaneous conversion is among a druid's greatest assets. You have the freedom to prepare some pretty situational spells, on the basis of the idea that summoned monsters are good in most situations. At your level, the best choice is the wolf, and the next level's best option is likely the hippogriff. Overall, the key to druids is to know what resources you have access to, because you can call up those resources really easily, and to make as much use of your main class features (casting, summoning, wild shape, and the animal companion) as possible, cause they're great class features. With solid play, a druid can easily out-awesome nearly any other character out there. You don't necessarily have to go that far, but you definitely don't have to be useless either.

[Spuddles]

you may want to swap your viper out for a dire bat at level four until you can get natural spell. this lets you be a mobile spellcaster, to some degree. watch out for concentration checks, though.

entangle is awesome any time you are around plants, absolutely brutal. magic stone can be a good spell vs. skeletons. situational, but if you dont need it, you can turn it into a summoned wolf. just give the magic stones to someone with a decent attack & str bonus.

[eggynack]

entangle is awesome any time you are around plants, absolutely brutal.
Also awesome if you attach plants to your animal companion, incidentally. Less for vipers, cause they're not particularly good in combat, but a mobile battlefield control platform is nice.

[cobaltstarfire]

I've got a viper because my other options are effectively banned, otherwise my kobold would be riding around on a dog (cause the mental image is wonderful, and it seems like a really great utility choice!) I imagine it's highly unlikely I'd be allowed to get a dire bat. But I may be able to upgrade up to one of the better base options at least when I hit lv 4.

Any advice for how best to use entangle? Friendly fire is on, so while I've been eyeballing it, I'm not sure how I can use it without it being a wash for friend and foe alike.


Giving magic stones to party members may be a nice idea though if any of them happen to have a sling. My character is the only small character, so I know anyone else would do better damage if I enchanted their stones rather than my own.


I don't think the plants on viper will fly, but I can ask, because I really like the idea. I don't think I've ever actually started a game at lv 1 before (usually at lv 5) So I may be panicking a bit on that front just because I'm not used to having so few spells and stuff to play with. I might try something like making plant bombs though for if we end up in a place that doesn't have any vegitation....do the plants have to be alive to work?

[eggynack]

Any advice for how best to use entangle? Friendly fire is on, so while I've been eyeballing it, I'm not sure how I can use it without it being a wash for friend and foe alike.
Generally speaking, you just cast it where enemies are and where friends are not, preferably towards the beginning of combat when things are less mixed. You can't always get a perfect shot, but you can do pretty well.




I don't think the plants on viper will fly, but I can ask, because I really like the idea. I don't think I've ever actually started a game at lv 1 before (usually at lv 5) So I may be panicking a bit on that front just because I'm not used to having so few spells and stuff to play with. I might try something like making plant bombs though for if we end up in a place that doesn't have any vegitation....do the plants have to be alive to work?
Really, the overall plant requirement is pretty vague, though I doubt dead plants would work. As for having few spells, you should just tend towards launching a single entangle, and then plinking away with a sling until the encounter ends. That's often enough to make victory inevitable.

[Gavinfoxx]

You should read this:

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=940.0

Basic rules:

-at level 1, Riding Dog Trained for War is the best animal companion. Get it some barding, have it be a better fighter than the Fighter at level 1
-Remember as long as the armor check penalty is 0, an animal doesn't have to be trained in armor use to use armor. And THEY didn't make an oath to not use metal armor.
-Get natural spell at level 6
-Focus on big battlefield control spells like entangle, and long duration buffs
-Upgrade your animal companion about every four levels or so
-Learn to use your summons, and the best creature to summon in a given situation
-Con and Wis are important, pretty much everything else ISN'T
-Good non-level-six core feats are Extend Spell, Improved Natural Attack Claw, Multiattack, and Augment Summoning
-Remember that you can take gear off, wild shape, and then put gear appropriately designed for your new shape on, and that you can wild shape early in the day and it can last for HOURS
-Remember that when you get wild shape, use it for not JUST scouting. Use it for combat, defense, strategic mobility, etc.
-Remember by like level 8 or 9 you are a bear with a pet bear who summons bears.
-Remember the cursed amulet of thought projection, it's the main core item you can use to communicate while wild shaped. Shape and get some help putting it on
-Replacing your animal companion takes 24 hours. They are completely expendable.

[cobaltstarfire]

You should read this:

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=940.0

I have read that, now I'm here asking for more hands on advice (reading it is part of the reason I'm very worried about my stats, because I made some bad choices). :smallsmile:

BTW thanks guys for responding, I've definitely got some things to think about now! I'm always open to more thoughts and such if you have any.

[Gavinfoxx]

Well I edited my post with some suggestions.

[Amanil]

DM of the game here, trust me when I say the party as a whole isn't combat-oriented. I restricted the animal companion because I know how much a 1st level Druid can outshine the rest of the party if they have a pet who is better than the party melee-types.

It sounds like you're worried about not being useful to the group, given her gimped stats (kobolds are obviously weaker than any of the PHB races, a straight downgrade from Halfling or Gnome). Once the party finds their stride, I'd be fine with switching out the animal companion to something more meaty so that you can contribute in combat more. Level 4 and 5 are where the balance is more even, I find, and once you hit 6th level and Wildshape comes in to play you're at the point where you start outshining the melee-types again (speaking of which, feel free to make a list in the Notes section on her character sheet regarding what animals she's seen in advance of her gaining Wildshape).


Remember by like level 8 or 9 you are a bear with a pet bear who summons bears.
This is why I'm fine with her not being optimised. :smallwink:

In case you haven't realised, as well as giving me a voice in the party, the cleric you're with (my DM PC) is there to take the burden of healing off of your character - being the healbot is no fun - so feel free to have a bit of variety in your spells.

As the feat you chose at 1st level was mostly a "I can't think of anything better" choice (Dodge, for anyone else interested), I'm fine with you switching that out for something else.

In summary, rest assured that the party is far from optimised, and I'll be taking that in to account.

[Endril]

O.o
You have a kobold druid with a viper companion?
Is its name Pun Pun?

[Amanil]

O.o
You have a kobold druid with a viper companion?
Is its name Pun Pun?
From my recruitment thread, where her character was conceived:


I'm happy for you to have a companion provided it's not a combat-oriented one (a snake, for example, may fit thematically with the kobold idea, but don't even think I'll let you get away with Pun Pun :smallwink:)

[cobaltstarfire]

Viper was the best flavor in the long run, but uh no, no Pun Pun...which I have limited knowledge of to begin with, but I have no interest in breaking the game or ruining it for my peers. (Boy am I glad my GM showed up though, now everyone will stop telling me to change my familiar, I'm fine with the Viper)

I'm really uncertain about feats to take (other than the obvious one at 6th level). I get working to get augmented summoning, but it bothers me a little that it effectively costs two feats to get. But if that's the most useful option I guess I should work on that huh?

[Segev]

I know the DM has said he has healing covered with the NPC cleric, but I would also take a look at Goodberry. It lasts for at least one day, and you can cast it the night before in order to have healing for the next day. It's 2d4 healing divisible amongst the party however it's needed. The caveat of maximum 8 hp healed per person per day won't matter until level 4 or 5, most likely.

[Endril]

You couldn't come close to making Pun Pun with just core. You can use supernatural abilities with shapechange, and that's the easiest way to do it without using questionable sources/rulings imo, but it's a level 9 spell, and that's assuming your DM allows you to shapechange into a Sarrukh, which is out of the Serpent Kingdoms book. Even if someone went through the trouble of doing that in my game, I'd change the terrible wording in the Sarrukh's abilities so they couldn't raise their stats infinitely, or anything else that breaks balance. But if I had a kobold druid with a viper companion, I'd name him Pun Pun just to do it. I actually use that name in a couple games I play because I like the name.

As for your feat selection, someone already suggested natural spell, and I second that. Why do you feel that you chose your ability scores poorly? What are they?

[Endril]

I misread your last post. You said the obvious one at 6th level, so I guess you already meant natural spell. Augmented summoning is good, although you'd be waiting until level 12 to take it. Personally, I like the idea of blowing stuff up too. For a core character, maximizing a flame strike isn't bad. You could use your 15th level feat slot on maximize, and end up doing 90 area damage, half of which isn't fire, with a 7th level slot. Maximizing fire seeds (no save for half) is also fun. But all that's a long ways off. Quicken spell is also a good one, and I'd also want that one around level 12, where you would be taking augmented summoning or another metamagic feat. So you have options.

[Amanil]

Why do you feel that you chose your ability scores poorly? What are they?

High Wisdom, high Dexterity (after racial modifiers). Wisdom is always the primary for any decent druid, and though Dexterity becomes obsolete after Wildshape is available, I'm honestly fine with her not being optimised (arguably Constitution should be the second ability for full min/max-ness); the party consists of her, a wizard, a rogue, a bard, a monk and a fighter. There's going to be some tier disparity as time goes on, the druid is the easier of the two to keep an eye on given her current build.

Wizards will be wizards - if the game goes on long enough to the point where they're high level and able to basically do as they please then I'd count that as a success anyway.

[cobaltstarfire]

I could swap out my first level feat for Spell Focus (conjuration) and get augmented summoning at third level couldn't I? (my gm gave me permission to trade in my current feat, all hail my current gm for they are merciful)

[Amanil]

I could swap out my first level feat for Spell Focus (conjuration) and get augmented summoning at third level couldn't I? (my gm gave me permission to trade in my current feat, all hail my current gm for they are merciful)
Yep. Go nuts. There really aren't any "core" feats for a Druid until 6th level, where they don't gain a feat but gain a class feature that looks like the Natural Spell feat (the above is sarcasm, but basically true).

[cobaltstarfire]

I guess I'll go with that then.


I may have to start doing that goodberry trick too...I really need to reread through my available spells or something, that or I've lost my touch for finding creative uses for spells. :(

[Gavinfoxx]

Remember, healing can be done perfectly fine with a druid/cleric/ranger/bard/paladin/adept/rogue or expert with umd maxxed with a wand of cure light wounds, out of combat.

[Killer Angel]

In core only, you may risk a lot, if you go in melee. You need to be buffed, and you may lack the time and you have no magic items while wild-shaped.

My suggestion is: wild shape in something flying, and summon critters that wipe the battlefield for you, while you cast from above. Simple and brutal.

[Runeclaw]

Yes, do Augmented Summoning. The prereq is a feat tax, but it's worth it.

Definitely familiarize yourself with the spell options - that's your main source of power and flexibility.

With that high dex, are you doing ranged attacks when you aren't casting spells? Sounds like you should avoid melee.

[cobaltstarfire]

Yeah, I'm probably going to be plinking at things with my sling, I wouldn't dream of walking into combat with this character. But even that I need to be careful of because we're keeping track of ammo, and she can't carry very much without becoming encumbered.


But I really do want to try that plant ball bomb thing, it's kind of fun to imagine her experimenting with ways to keep the plants alive while also in a handy throw-able form. I like the idea of her constantly digging plants up and pawfuls of dirt and things just to see what she can work out.