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View Full Version : [3.5 PEACH] Big Dumb Fighter Fix (well, more of a band-aid)



Flickerdart
2014-06-18, 08:21 PM
I've seen a lot of fighter fixes. One of them I've even seen in a WotC book! It was called Warblade and it was pretty sweet. This thread is not about that. This thread is about a guy that beats monsters to death with the ruthless efficiency and lack of imagination of a true soldier.

Warmaster

Prerequisites:
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Special: Tower shield proficiency

Hit die: d10

Skill points: 4+INT modifier per level
Class skills: The warmaster’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), and Swim (Str).



Level
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Special


1st
+1
+2
+2
+2
Art of war


2nd
+2
+3
+3
+3
Art of war, forward march


3rd
+3
+3
+3
+3
Art of war, combat trick


4th
+4
+4
+4
+4
Art of war, backup plan


5th
+5
+4
+4
+4
Art of war, split the thaum



Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Warmasters gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

Art of War (Ex): The warmaster's signature trait is the perfection of a fighting style on which he chooses to focus. When gaining a new level of warmaster, a warmaster may select a [Fighter] feat he possesses that provides a permanent, static numerical bonus, such as Improved Initiative or Weapon Focus. The bonus granted by that feat is doubled. When the warmaster reaches 10 hit dice, the bonus is instead tripled, and at 15 hit dice, it's quadrupled. For example, a fighter 14/warmaster 1 who chose Weapon Specialization for his Art of War gains a total damage bonus of +8 from the feat. This ability does not apply to feats like Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, which reduce a penalty rather than provide a bonus, or like Law Devotion, because the bonus is not permanent or static. The warmaster may not pick the same feat twice.
Forward March (Ex): By studying warriors from other cultures, the warmaster has learned to make their tactics his own. At 2nd level, the warmaster no longer suffers a penalty to his speed for wearing armours heavier than light in which he is proficient, and is not forbidden from flying while carrying a load heavier than light or wearing armours heavier than light. Any mount the warmaster rides also gains this ability while he is riding it.
Combat Trick (Ex): The warmaster has run out of teachers who know things he does not, and has begun incorporating much more exotic influences into his fighting style. At 3rd level the warmaster gains one ability from the following list:

Bull Stampede: The warmaster puts his entire weight behind every blow. He may initiate a bull rush as an attack action rather than a standard action, allowing him to make bull rushes on attacks of opportunity, and multiple bull rushes on a full attack.
Hornet Sting: The warmaster can disarm in a much more literal sense. He may attempt to disarm a creature's natural weapon. On a successful disarm attempt, the weapon is crippled with a well-placed blow and the defender takes 1 point of non-lethal damage. Until that creature no longer has non-lethal damage (usually after resting for an hour), it may not use that natural weapon.
Peacock Flourish: The warmaster's spectacular skill with a blade makes his feinting that much more distracting. When he successfully feints, the target is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC against the warmaster for an entire round, rather than just the warmaster's next attack.
Python Strangle: The warmaster has learned a complex style of wrestling that binds the foe, giving him slightly more mobility during a grapple. He is allowed to initiate a grapple against a target of any size. He does not suffer the -4 penalty for striking with a light weapon while in a grapple, and may attack with a one-handed weapon against creatures two or more sizes larger than he is (though he may not wield it in two hands). The warmaster may escape a grapple he has initiated as a free action that does not require a grapple check.
Stallion Gallop: The warmaster goes where he pleases, crushing his enemies under his boots. On any round in which he attempts an overrun, he may still initiate a full attack action at the end of his move, but receives one fewer iterative attack than normal for his attack bonus.
Dragon Smash: The warmaster has learned an important lesson: never break that which you can sell. When he sunders a magic item, he strikes around the enchantment. If the sunder is successful, the item is rendered useless, but the magic does not fade; a Craft check of appropriate difficulty for the type of mundane object that the enchantment was placed on restores both the item's mundane and magical functions as though it was never sundered.
Dog Pile: The warmaster makes sure that when he knocks someone down, they stay down. When he successfully trips an opponent, the warmaster can immediately enter a grapple with that opponent without having to make a touch attack or opposed grapple check.

At 4th and 5th level, the warmaster may choose an additional Combat Trick instead of a new Art of War bonus.
Backup Plan (Ex): The warmaster has internalized the wisdom of a true warrior - that no plan survives contact with the enemy - and knows not to over-commit to his actions. When a warmaster of 4th level or higher loses the opposed check on a bull rush, disarm, starting a grapple, overrun, sunder, or trip, he does not suffer the negative consequences of failure (except when he has entered another creature's space, in which case he moves to the nearest free space). He may immediately attempt a different combat maneuver from the list, using the same d20 roll. This ability can be used once per round.
Split the Thaum (Ex): The warmaster has reached the pinnacle of sword art, and can cut through anything - even magic. As an attack action, the warmaster can attempt to dispel any magical effect that includes him as a target or in its area, or is affecting a creature or object within the warmaster's melee reach. The warmaster uses his BAB instead of caster level for the dispel check.
The warmaster can also use this ability to attempt to counter a spell that either has him or a creature or object within his melee reach as a target, or includes him in its area of effect. He does not have to ready this ability to use it in this way, but doing so counts as his Attack of Opportunity for the round. If the warmaster can make multiple Attacks of Opportunity per round, he can Split the Thaum that many times.

jiriku
2014-06-19, 08:27 AM
Stylish. I like.

This is an epic-level concern, but Art of War could be combined with certain epic level feats to gain +10 or greater untyped bonuses to any stat. Since the ability is easily dippable, it's possible, for, say, a 20th level wizard or flavor-of-the-month gish to take his 21st level in warmaster and drop one epic feat for +10 Intelligence untyped. I don't think that's a good thing. I am also concerned that gaining an untyped +IWIN to attack rolls or AC is a bad thing; in an otherwise-balanced party, that's likely to create a situation where the warmaster never misses and is never hit. That could become an issue well before epic levels too.

Hmm, also, you need a class skill list and number of skill points per level.

Flickerdart
2014-06-19, 03:16 PM
Stylish. I like.

This is an epic-level concern, but Art of War could be combined with certain epic level feats to gain +10 or greater untyped bonuses to any stat. Since the ability is easily dippable, it's possible, for, say, a 20th level wizard or flavor-of-the-month gish to take his 21st level in warmaster and drop one epic feat for +10 Intelligence untyped. I don't think that's a good thing. I am also concerned that gaining an untyped +IWIN to attack rolls or AC is a bad thing; in an otherwise-balanced party, that's likely to create a situation where the warmaster never misses and is never hit. That could become an issue well before epic levels too.

Hmm, also, you need a class skill list and number of skill points per level.
I don't think any of the +stat feats are [Fighter] feats, so that should be okay. I can't think of any feats that straight-up give AC, but boosting Weapon Focus might become an issue - +10 AB for 2 feats and a level (or two levels, if someone dips fighter 1 for this) is pretty strong. Do you think I should reduce the bonus scaling, or limit it to exclude AC and AB?

jiriku
2014-06-19, 05:02 PM
Oh! It's for fighter bonus feats! I had overlooked that. That narrows the field considerably, but there are still many problem feats. Heavy Armor Optimization and Shield Specialization boost AC. Combat Brute grants +1 to attack and damage for a round for every five feet you bull-rush an opponent. Blade Meditation grants +1 damage, +2 to a skill, and +1 to save DC for maneuvers from a chosen martial discipline. I'd also be mindful that the character can easily choose two to or more feats that improve the same roll, gaining the bonus more than once (ex. Weapon Focus and Point Blank Shot for +character level to hit with close-range ranged attacks with the specialized weapon).

I think reducing the scaling is the better way to go. Gaining +10 untyped to any d20 roll will break party balance, and stacking untyped damage bonuses can break damage rolls as well. I'd suggest a flat 2-point improvement to any bonuses and a 2-point reduction in any penalties. That's good enough to redeem a weak feat without breaking a strong one too badly. I might also insert a cap for abilities that grant the bonus repeatedly within a single action (e.g. Combat Brute). But the extent of the nerf also depends on how central you want Art of War to be. Is it the core class feature, or more of an accessory?

Also, needs d12 hit die. The extra +5 hit points will be needed in any game where powerful melee options are also made available to the DM's creations.

Flickerdart
2014-06-19, 05:18 PM
Oh! It's for fighter bonus feats! I had overlooked that. That narrows the field considerably, but there are still many problem feats. Heavy Armor Optimization and Shield Specialization boost AC. Combat Brute grants +1 to attack and damage for a round for every five feet you bull-rush an opponent. Blade Meditation grants +1 damage, +2 to a skill, and +1 to save DC for maneuvers from a chosen martial discipline. I'd also be mindful that the character can easily choose two to or more feats that improve the same roll, gaining the bonus more than once (ex. Weapon Focus and Point Blank Shot for +character level to hit with close-range ranged attacks with the specialized weapon).

I think reducing the scaling is the better way to go. Gaining +10 untyped to any d20 roll will break party balance, and stacking untyped damage bonuses can break damage rolls as well. I'd suggest a flat 2-point improvement to any bonuses and a 2-point reduction in any penalties. That's good enough to redeem a weak feat without breaking a strong one too badly. I might also insert a cap for abilities that grant the bonus repeatedly within a single action (e.g. Combat Brute). But the extent of the nerf also depends on how central you want Art of War to be. Is it the core class feature, or more of an accessory?

Also, needs d12 hit die. The extra +5 hit points will be needed in any game where powerful melee options are also made available to the DM's creations.
Art of War is intended to basically hack crappy feats into scaling - if I take Improved Bull Rush at level 1, I'm now good at Bull Rushing for that level, but crap at level 20. If I Art of War it, I'm now good at Bull Rushing for the rest of my career without needing to invest any special resources into it. A +10 to grapple (from Art of War on Improved Grapple) lets you wrestle down some beefy critters without needing to boost that with anything else.

Maybe if I make it an enhancement bonus to the statistic, rather than a bonus to the feat? So Weapon Focus with Art of War would grant you +1 untyped and +10 enhancement to-hit, making both a magic sword and Art of War on Point Blank Shot redundant.

jiriku
2014-06-19, 09:11 PM
Providing bonuses in types that mimic common kinds of magic gear is a really good strategy. It helps double, really, because it prevents bonus-stacking and frees up some WBL for use on unique items (which are often ruinously expensive but lots of fun).

It's a tough call though. There are some feats, like the Mounted Archery tree or the Mobility Tree or the Two-Weapon Defense tree, where granting the rest of the feat chain for free would be the best choice. There are other feats where there is no chain, so you need to make them self-scale. Some feats need to scale +1/level, or +1/2 levels, or +1/4 levels. It's a conundrum.... If you want a quick-and dirty fix, doubling benefits at level 8 and tripling them at level 16 is probably a decent one-size-fits-all approach.

Flickerdart
2014-06-19, 11:00 PM
Ooh, I like that, that's a pretty elegant fix. The feats that provide chunky bonuses are usually harmless...

I feel like legitimate feat chains (like Dodge-Mobility-Spring Attack) are okay conceptually. The problem with that particular example is that all of the feats suck, but Weapon Focus is actually a pretty reasonable feat at 1st level where you're simultaneously hungry for any bonuses that help swing a d20 in your favour and swimming in feat slots (from front-loaded bonus feats and flaws) that can't be used to take good feats that have prerequisites. But the tiny bonus from Weapon Focus quickly becomes pointless, while Spring Attack sucks identically throughout its career.

Loading up fighters with extra bonus feat equivalents seems kind of silly, also. Their problem isn't that they don't have enough feats, but that their feats suck. Maybe if this was a 10-level class (and was taking away from the fighter's bonus feats more) I could justify that, but I don't think the concept stands up to 10 levels.