DM Problems

[mr_odd]

Hey guys! I need some advice on how to be a better DM. I have three problems....

A. No variation of classes. I run a "drop in, drop out" game to fit to people's busy schedules. Out of our big player base (over ten) we have no clerics (anymore), paladins, or monks (anymore). Both our only monk and cleric have either stopped playing or changed characters. We also only have one wizard, sorcerer, and two druids (though only one druid and the wizard actually play). What do I do with encounters? Do I build encounters to fit the classes, or just throw them in a crypt and let all of the rogues die?

B. New DM, magic is terrifying. I have a year of DM-ing/playing under my belt, but I'm still pretty new. Our wizard is pretty intelligent (as a person) and uses spells in a lot of interesting ways that typically decimate entire encounters by himself. How do I create encounters that are both challenging with magic and incorporate resources from the whole party?

C. Same wizard is a goblin who loves raising skeletons and using them as his personal squad. The PCs live in a lawful good city whose citizens primarily worship Pelor and Heironeous. The player wants to legalize necromancy, but the king would never allow it. How do I handle this? I feel like if I just tell him "no," he will get frustrated/disinterested/etc. while the rest of the player base is accomplishing their own goals.


D. Railroading. Throughout my first year as DM-ing, I've ruined some sessions through railroading. While the answer seems simple "just don't do it," it actually isn't that simple. Any advice?

[Kazudo]

Hey guys! I need some advice on how to be a better DM. I have three problems....

A. No variation of classes. I run a "drop in, drop out" game to fit to people's busy schedules. Out of our big player base (over ten) we have no clerics (anymore), paladins, or monks (anymore). Both our only monk and cleric have either stopped playing or changed characters. We also only have one wizard, sorcerer, and two druids (though only one druid and the wizard actually play). What do I do with encounters? Do I build encounters to fit the classes, or just throw them in a crypt and let all of the rogues die?


Absolutely tailor your encounters to fit the classes. Unless not having one of the classes required is actually one of the key points. You'd be surprised how useful it can be.



B. New DM, magic is terrifying. I have a year of DM-ing/playing under my belt, but I'm still pretty new. Our wizard is pretty intelligent (as a person) and uses spells in a lot of interesting ways that typically decimate entire encounters by himself. How do I create encounters that are both challenging with magic and incorporate resources from the whole party?


Magic IS terrifying. Even if you know 100% what you're getting yourself into. And the unfortunate point is that a wizard played well and intelligently can't really BE challenged just with an encounter. An important thing to remember is that barring significantly high levels or significantly large quantities of money, wizards suffer from the curse of Vancian magic which means that one encounter won't be a big problem. Five encounters might. Ten encounters may see the wizard out of his best spells and being challenged. Just a thought. It's also worth saying that certain creatures which may or may not be level appropriate encounters have enough SR or effects which negate spells (Golems, for example) which would be challenging just on their own.



C. Same wizard is a goblin who loves raising skeletons and using them as his personal squad. The PCs live in a lawful good city whose citizens primarily worship Pelor and Heironeous. The player wants to legalize necromancy, but the king would never allow it. How do I handle this? I feel like if I just tell him "no," he will get frustrated/disinterested/etc. while the rest of the player base is accomplishing their own goals.


I think it'd make for a good story. He could be approached by a gang of individuals with...less than savory goals (than necromancy) who will help him make a bid for Dead's Rights or something similar which would say that if people WANT to go on living past their deaths, they should be given the right to! If people wish for their loved ones to live on into the afterworld, they should be able to! Dead people have rights too! Then it turns out that they really just want an army of undead for conquest/fun/pleasure/whatever. That way you get to say no, but you get the PLAYER to say it, not just a random NPC. When said player sees what having to fight against an army of undead that are too high of a CR or controlled by an individual or group of individuals with too high of a CL to overcome, they'll see that it's best left underground. Pun intended.



D. Railroading. Throughout my first year as DM-ing, I've ruined some sessions through railroading. While the answer seems simple "just don't do it," it actually isn't that simple. Any advice?

Look. Some groups need a bit of railroading. Just saying "Then your characters do this" or "You should probably check that out" or "You suddenly feel this way" without reason is just blatant railroading. No, if done right, no one will be sure if the DM railroaded anything at all. You have to have a light hand and a gentle touch. An important thing to do is that if you have an interesting story you want to run to only paint that story in broad strokes and let the players fill in the detail. Figure out the who, the what, and the why, and maybe even the where, but let the players etch in the "How" in more detail. Sure, the point of the game is to save the princess who was last reported in that tower, but when the players go in an opposite direction, maybe they start getting clues that that tower was a distraction anyway, that the real location is a bandit camp overseeing a magic item repository. Then they get into the bandit camp (because that's more interesting anyhow) they find out that not only have the bandits been funneling magic items from cellars and vaults all over the kingdom to this one tower (the one the players should have gone to first), but the Princess isn't really a princess but an outsider trying to get home and she'll make it very worth the players' time to help her, moreso than the king would.

Etc.

[Kol Korran]

There may be different answers to the questions, depending on personalities of the party involved and play style, but here are some of my thoughts:


Hey guys! I need some advice on how to be a better DM. I have three problems....

A. No variation of classes. I run a "drop in, drop out" game to fit to people's busy schedules. Out of our big player base (over ten) we have no clerics (anymore), paladins, or monks (anymore). Both our only monk and cleric have either stopped playing or changed characters. We also only have one wizard, sorcerer, and two druids (though only one druid and the wizard actually play). What do I do with encounters? Do I build encounters to fit the classes, or just throw them in a crypt and let all of the rogues die?
I do a mix of both. On the whole I tailor a situation (Not exactly an encounter) which should be fairly open in terms of solution, to allow the party some freedom of interaction and a more believable world. I do try to put in some touches that rely on the party's abilities, to give them a place to shine or specifically challenge them.

An example: The party needs to save some prisoners from a gnoll fort. I don't design specific gnolls for rooms, but rather the general layout of the fort, the amount of forces there, the patrols, possible weak points, strong points, and I think up a few "most likely" scenarios and what the gnolls responses will be. The fort is general, and the party can approach it by many ways- fight their way in, try to capture patrols in the wood to gain info, inflitrate, talk to the gnolls/ try to persuade them/ intimidate them, or whatever. In those terms it is general.

I may put some things for the players though. Lets say they have a sneaky character, I put some sort of a path to the fort that has cover or concealment if they seek to take it. Or maybe the gnolls have a the help of some undead or a secret passage to the chappel of the cleric, or maybe a fiendish sorcerer to challenge the mage.

I can also challenge them- maybe some mosnter with resistance or immunities to the blasters' usual spells, Or some attack that target the low weak saves of some characters, and so on.


B. New DM, magic is terrifying. I have a year of DM-ing/playing under my belt, but I'm still pretty new. Our wizard is pretty intelligent (as a person) and uses spells in a lot of interesting ways that typically decimate entire encounters by himself. How do I create encounters that are both challenging with magic and incorporate resources from the whole party? MAigc does take getting used to, and a smart wizard can be challenging to a new DM. I suggest the following:
- Read over his spells, understand what they do, and what are their limitations. many new DMs don't consider time of spells, or area of spells.
- Let a spell work once, and then let the enemy react to counter, like spreading out, Having some ranged units ready their actions to shoot anyone who casts a spell and so on. Or better yet- have them have a caster of their own! The best way to learn magic is to start using it! Make some casters, and you'll start to learn fast.
- Different enemies with different resistances and good saves. That way a single spell isn't liekly to take them all out.
- If you really want to challenge, use enemies with spell resistance. Don't do that too much, or your player will say cry out. I suggest outsiders, they can challenge casters fairly well.


C. Same wizard is a goblin who loves raising skeletons and using them as his personal squad. The PCs live in a lawful good city whose citizens primarily worship Pelor and Heironeous. The player wants to legalize necromancy, but the king would never allow it. How do I handle this? I feel like if I just tell him "no," he will get frustrated/disinterested/etc. while the rest of the player base is accomplishing their own goals.
Explain to him that this will take effort, a sort of a mini quest/ side arc of itself. Ask him how he is going to try and achieve it, and accordign to that plan challenges and responses accordingly. My personal motto is "Everything is possible! But it's not usually easy!" Have him work for it, plan for it, make some sort of perosnal nemesis- an inquisitor of Pelor or such that works against him and try to see how it turns.

THis of course, if it doesn't disturb the usual play. If so, then what the group seeks to do overall triumphs. But in general cultivate players' interest-when they are motivated it brings to the best results!


D. Railroading. Throughout my first year as DM-ing, I've ruined some sessions through railroading. While the answer seems simple "just don't do it," it actually isn't that simple. Any advice? I suffered from this too. My suggestion? Plan situations, general goals, and maybe possible responses to situations. But avoid deciding or even thinking on a path this could be achieved. Take the gnoll fort example:
- Goal: Save the prisoners. (Make sure you have a good motivation to get the palyers hooked)
- Situation: Plan the fort layout, the forces there. anything else of impiortant as the background.
- Responses: What the gnolls are likely to do in attack, in a social situation and so on.
- Solution: Up to the players!

Good luck to you!

[Bonzai]

Hey guys! I need some advice on how to be a better DM. I have three problems....

A. No variation of classes. I run a "drop in, drop out" game to fit to people's busy schedules. Out of our big player base (over ten) we have no clerics (anymore), paladins, or monks (anymore). Both our only monk and cleric have either stopped playing or changed characters. We also only have one wizard, sorcerer, and two druids (though only one druid and the wizard actually play). What do I do with encounters? Do I build encounters to fit the classes, or just throw them in a crypt and let all of the rogues die?

B. New DM, magic is terrifying. I have a year of DM-ing/playing under my belt, but I'm still pretty new. Our wizard is pretty intelligent (as a person) and uses spells in a lot of interesting ways that typically decimate entire encounters by himself. How do I create encounters that are both challenging with magic and incorporate resources from the whole party?

C. Same wizard is a goblin who loves raising skeletons and using them as his personal squad. The PCs live in a lawful good city whose citizens primarily worship Pelor and Heironeous. The player wants to legalize necromancy, but the king would never allow it. How do I handle this? I feel like if I just tell him "no," he will get frustrated/disinterested/etc. while the rest of the player base is accomplishing their own goals.


D. Railroading. Throughout my first year as DM-ing, I've ruined some sessions through railroading. While the answer seems simple "just don't do it," it actually isn't that simple. Any advice?


A. I wouldn't worry about it. The way I DM, I put the story first. The Encounters are the encounters because that is what they are and how they fit into the story. They are there, because it makes sense that they would be. The party is running against them, regardless of what their composition is. That being said it can be fun to throw something to personally challenge the party now and then, but for the most part there is no DM metagaming on my part.

B. I had this problem. First time DM'ing for a group that had VASTLY greater experience than me. I wanted to challenge them, but they were very optimized and things escalated to a point where either I would have to half way wipe out the party with an alpha strike and kill some of them, or they would have the combat more or less wrapped up in two turns. I did not want to try and out right kill my players characters, so towards the end of the campaign I began to feel frustrated that I wasn't giving them enough of a challenge. This is a campaign that started at level 1, and ended around level 24. After it was over I talked with my players and they gave me some great advice. Even though I wasn't making them sweat every encounter, they were still having fun. The encounters were interesting, and they were tactical. Yes they were quickly able to over come them, but they had to think about them a little. I wasn't adversarial, and allowed their characters to do what they were made to do, which was enjoyable for the players. Their advice was to not worry about challenging them as long as they were having fun and everyone was engaged in the story. It was some great advice. Now if the Wizard starts monopolizing the game and makes other players wonder why they are even there, then that is a different problem. Fortunately they all seem to be casters, so they should be able to hold their own with him.

C. My solution would be to determine the logical response that a town would have for a goblin that is leading a small army of undead to their town. :smallamused: This is a great opportunity for some role play on the side. Embrace it! Just be fair and logical in your responses and he has nothing to complain about. If he is a known hero, then have an official politely ask him to keep his skeletons out side of town, as they scare the women and children. If he isn't a well known hero, then the response may not be so polite, and the local clerics may take matters into their own hands. Just be very fair and rational about it.

D. I always drop a trail of bread crumbs to lead from one plot element to the next. It's up to the party to decide to follow them. If they don't then they don't, however they have to be prepared to be left to their own devices. This usually leads to the party standing around doing nothing and players getting bored and frustrated as they can't settle on a specific course of action. If they look to you, simply tell them that you are waiting on them to tell you what they are doing. If they decide to go another direction, then I may have to either call the game short so I can prepare something, or improvise a bit on the fly. It's ok to let player choices be dead ends and not lead anywhere interesting. Usually though, the party is content to follow the story and go down the path I've laid out before them. If they try to do something they shouldn't.... say Assassinate the king in broad daylight in front of his court for example, then I might pause and out of game say "Are you really sure that you want to do that? You did hear that his Captain, Son, and 30 guardsmen are there in the room with him right? I just want to be clear that there are people around him who might take exception to that. Even if you succeed, you know that there will be in game consequences for killing a king right?". If they decide to do it anyway, don't pull any punches. Let them reap exactly what they sow. Be fair about it, but let them deal with the consequences of their actions. Lastly, accept that any NPC/Monster/whatever you introduce is fair game die a horrible death at the parties hands. There are no sacred NPCs, and out right unkillable. Accept that and have contingency plans set incase things go south. Guys you hope will be a re-occurring villain might get slaughtered in seconds. Figure creative ways to get around this if you can, or simply move on. Best advice I can give to avoid rail roading.

[Stormageddon]

Absolutely tailor your encounters to fit the classes. Unless not having one of the classes required is actually one of the key points. You'd be surprised how useful it can be.



Magic IS terrifying. Even if you know 100% what you're getting yourself into. And the unfortunate point is that a wizard played well and intelligently can't really BE challenged just with an encounter. An important thing to remember is that barring significantly high levels or significantly large quantities of money, wizards suffer from the curse of Vancian magic which means that one encounter won't be a big problem. Five encounters might. Ten encounters may see the wizard out of his best spells and being challenged. Just a thought. It's also worth saying that certain creatures which may or may not be level appropriate encounters have enough SR or effects which negate spells (Golems, for example) which would be challenging just on their own.



I think it'd make for a good story. He could be approached by a gang of individuals with...less than savory goals (than necromancy) who will help him make a bid for Dead's Rights or something similar which would say that if people WANT to go on living past their deaths, they should be given the right to! If people wish for their loved ones to live on into the afterworld, they should be able to! Dead people have rights too! Then it turns out that they really just want an army of undead for conquest/fun/pleasure/whatever. That way you get to say no, but you get the PLAYER to say it, not just a random NPC. When said player sees what having to fight against an army of undead that are too high of a CR or controlled by an individual or group of individuals with too high of a CL to overcome, they'll see that it's best left underground. Pun intended.



Look. Some groups need a bit of railroading. Just saying "Then your characters do this" or "You should probably check that out" or "You suddenly feel this way" without reason is just blatant railroading. No, if done right, no one will be sure if the DM railroaded anything at all. You have to have a light hand and a gentle touch. An important thing to do is that if you have an interesting story you want to run to only paint that story in broad strokes and let the players fill in the detail. Figure out the who, the what, and the why, and maybe even the where, but let the players etch in the "How" in more detail. Sure, the point of the game is to save the princess who was last reported in that tower, but when the players go in an opposite direction, maybe they start getting clues that that tower was a distraction anyway, that the real location is a bandit camp overseeing a magic item repository. Then they get into the bandit camp (because that's more interesting anyhow) they find out that not only have the bandits been funneling magic items from cellars and vaults all over the kingdom to this one tower (the one the players should have gone to first), but the Princess isn't really a princess but an outsider trying to get home and she'll make it very worth the players' time to help her, moreso than the king would.

Etc.

I really like these answers. I'll add on a bit to the railroading section. I find having a OCC (Out of Character) conversations with players helps a lot nothing is more aggro then a carefully laided out adventure in your head, and then having the players trample on it because they have some different ideas. I find doing characters backgrounds as a group is extremely helpful to find out what the characters plan attack might be also you can help them feel more involved in the setting.

Also talk to your players before or after the game. Ask them what they are going to do next. You can even lead the question by asking the question like "So the dragon just burned down the town.... Are you going to A) Help repair the town B) Go fight the dragon or C) something else.... Must likely they will choice A or B because you suggested it, but they still will think it is their idea because you let them choose. Also gives you an idea of how to plan if they choice C.

[Azraile]

B. Mix in creatures that are EXSTREAMLY resistant to magic or immune into encounters, or do not take damage from the energy type the mage favors. Give them adnormaly high saves. Give them adnormaly high health. Change the chars to fit the damage output of the party.

C. Just let him know the king will never allow it, nor would a magority of the leaders of the city, if he can find away around it then let him.... but it would not be an easy thing to do. Also if his skeleton rasing becomes a problem make him fight stuff that has death attacks, arn't alive, or are made of stuff that can't be animated with necromancy..... maybe unlease a death attack curse, some one so agenst necromancy and reserection that they make it so any time some one dies they turn to stone (and anything derectly in contact with them! get your sword out fast!)


D. Don't FORCE them back, just throw up things that guide them back to the story you want. Also adding various diffrent ways through the story that they could go through before hand helps a lot. But if they get to far off course make the consequences of there actions evident. They didn't help a city being over run that you wanted them to as part of the story, make them hear that the city has been destroyed and they need people to go try and save survivors

[Azraile]

One of the biggest uses to get around railroading is to have an NPC in the party.... not one that helps out to much with anything, but one that you can have give them advice or information to nudge them back on track (exstreamly inteligent items or familars work)

[Captnq]

A. No variation of classes. What do I do with encounters? Do I build encounters to fit the classes, or just throw them in a crypt and let all of the rogues die?

Either custom build the encounters, or make a holistic world they can wander about it and make sure it's clear they have the option of running away. I always encourage the players to hire an NPC bard to act as the "Band Manager" who sets up "gigs". However, if they fight something too powerful, never be afraid to murder them as hard as you can.



B. How do I create encounters that are both challenging with magic and incorporate resources from the whole party?

Check out my Sig, get the EVD, look at the folder marked "Spells", then the section marked Augmentation. Start sending mutated Aberrations with grafted tentacles after them. Grafts are great. You get powers, and the PCs get no treasure! If you wish to reward them, outfit your NPCs with cool weapons from the Combat section. Use the EVD to Murder them as hard as you can.



C. How do I handle this?

You never say no. You say, "Roll your wisdom, DC 15. You failed? Nothing. Or.. You made it? You know that is a really dumb idea. DO you do it ANYWAY? If they do, ask them how they get away with it. When they screw up, Murder them as hard as you can.




D. Railroading. Throughout my first year as DM-ing, I've ruined some sessions through railroading. While the answer seems simple "just don't do it," it actually isn't that simple. Any advice?

There is railroading, and then there are consequences.


http://youtu.be/tn0r88RJFD4?t=7s

See? If the players poke a leopard with a stick, tear off their faces. If they attempt to create undead in a city run by Pelor, Hunt them down and murder them as hard as you can.

The players might get pissed, but then you say, "Look, I run the world. You interact with it. I took the time to write down what the city had. If you murdered 208 city guards, you could go free. You got three before they curb stomped you. Sorry. Next time don't take a dump in the paladin-king's temple foyer and he won't play hopscotch in your chest cavity.

That's not railroading. That's realism.

TL;DR - MURDER THEM AS HARD AS YOU CAN... But Don't Cheat.
It's okay to lose, You'll get them next time.

[Thrudd]

Hey guys! I need some advice on how to be a better DM. I have three problems....

A. No variation of classes. I run a "drop in, drop out" game to fit to people's busy schedules. Out of our big player base (over ten) we have no clerics (anymore), paladins, or monks (anymore). Both our only monk and cleric have either stopped playing or changed characters. We also only have one wizard, sorcerer, and two druids (though only one druid and the wizard actually play). What do I do with encounters? Do I build encounters to fit the classes, or just throw them in a crypt and let all of the rogues die?

B. New DM, magic is terrifying. I have a year of DM-ing/playing under my belt, but I'm still pretty new. Our wizard is pretty intelligent (as a person) and uses spells in a lot of interesting ways that typically decimate entire encounters by himself. How do I create encounters that are both challenging with magic and incorporate resources from the whole party?

C. Same wizard is a goblin who loves raising skeletons and using them as his personal squad. The PCs live in a lawful good city whose citizens primarily worship Pelor and Heironeous. The player wants to legalize necromancy, but the king would never allow it. How do I handle this? I feel like if I just tell him "no," he will get frustrated/disinterested/etc. while the rest of the player base is accomplishing their own goals.


D. Railroading. Throughout my first year as DM-ing, I've ruined some sessions through railroading. While the answer seems simple "just don't do it," it actually isn't that simple. Any advice?

All of your problems would be resolved by taking some queues from older editions of the game.

You should be running single session episodic adventures, rather than trying to have some grand overarching plot, especially in your circumstance where players come and go from session to session. Use site-based adventures rather than plot-based adventures. Give the players clues and reasons to go to the adventure site, and then leave everything up to them. What classes the players choose should not matter. It is a good idea to allow for more than one possible solution to any problem. Put them in a world which is internally consistent and logical, and let them figure out how to deal with it.
Basically yes, throw them into a crypt and see what happens. Except you give them a reason to want to go to the crypt, and some information in the form of rumors and legends about what is in the crypt that might help them prepare in advance for some of its challenges.

So they don't have any clerics...if they want healing and undead-turning they will need to figure something out. Maybe hire a cleric on a temporary basis, someone take leadership and look for a cleric cohort, or pitch in and buy some wands of cure light wounds from the local temple (if you allow that sort of thing).

Let the wizard player solve as many problems as he can, he will run out of spells eventually. You need to make sure you enforce resting rules. "getting a good night's sleep" is required for recovering spells. This is/should be impossible in certain situations, like while in the middle of a dungeon, due to wandering monsters. If the player has legitimate ways around this, you may want to consider populating your adventures with more anti-magic and magic-resistant challenges.

As for the issue in the town, you don't need to tell them "no", but make sure they are aware of the consequences of what they're doing. Just apply logic and common sense. Let the players attempt to do whatever they want: negotiate with the king, look for political allies, undermine the church's authority somehow, whatever they can think of. It shouldn't be easy to get what they want in this circumstance, since they are basically trying to shift someone's perception 180 degrees. If you don't want to bother with all that, just have the guards called out whenever someone sees a skeleton walking around. Eventually, clerics and paladins will be called. It will make it very hard for the players to stay in town if they consistently and flagrantly disobey the laws. Alternatively, if they are powerful enough and evil enough, they can just overthrow the government of the town and make whatever laws they want.

Railroading can be eliminated by running a more open world. Give the players places they can go and reasons for them to go there, and let them do what they want. Develop those areas in as much detail as you have time for.
Alternatively, you can tell them at the start of each session that they have embarked on some adventure, tell them where they are and why they are there, and then let them do what they want. If the players agree to this sort of game, it can make life very simple for you.

[Azraile]

You seam awful murder happy.....

If your storytelling and not roll playing then you want to tell a story.... and no one likes a story that ends 2 chapters (or seasons >.> damn you TV executives) in....

They like one that finishes, and maybe even goes on after that.... depending how the story goes.

LOL the story I am running right now is kinda do or die.... It's prity much the end of the world and there is little they can do about it.... but between the two forces at play there is a thin razer sharp edge where everything turns out ok.

If they manadge to fall just short of that... then things are going to go to hell in a handbasket... and maybe if there lucky the changed things enough where humanity and the party lives through it and can try and rebuild from what little is left ... or try and drive back the horrors..

If they find that narrow path, well then it's going to end well.... very very well.... matrix 3 / what things may come kinda everyone can do anything and be anyone they want near god like control overreality being common place and people being beyond hate and greed and the like because there is nothing to spark such emotions anyway.

That is defiantly not and ending the story goes on from... .thats an "and they all lived happily ever after." ending .... what else is there to do... they lived happily ever after... thats it.... it's done lol


So personally I don't try and kill chars, I give them a hard challenging fight. Boss types can kill them if they don't bring there A game.... and the BBG can usaly slughter them whole sell if they don't get more powerful before they run into them. So by the end of the game they have atleast a chance to take them out. Harder if it's the final fight of the campaign.

The one exception.... .doing incredibly stupid things. like say setting off explosives in a pressurized environment x.x Guy didn't die but he did have a security team chase him and gun him down (pain/stun shots) and throw him in jail. At which they tried to charge him with the attempted murder of everyone on board.

[Azraile]

@Thrudd

Better yet if you don't want them to try turning the town, have paladins shake them down. You would be amazed how much corruption can seth even through LG alinment groups. They can rationalize beating the hell out of you and threatening to have you silenced is a good thing because what you want is evil and agenst there creeds.