How did I do? AKA Pimp My Ur-Priest!

[torrasque666]

Ok giants, this is my first really solo build that I think I might have done well on. My entire goal was to get to 9th divines early and I think I met it.

34 Point Buy, no limits on books.

Race: Human
Free +2 LA
Shadow(Fast Healing 2/DR 5 Magic/+2 Luck to saves)


Stat
Score


STR
10


DEX
10


CON
14


INT
14


WIS
29


CHA
10



Flaws:
Frail
Vulnerable

Classes:


Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Feats
Class Features
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
Human Paragon
+0
+0
+0
+2
Iron Will
Spell Focus(Evil)
Able Learner
Heighten Spell
Class Skills:

Bluff
Concentration
Know:Arcana
Know:Religion
Know:Planes
Spellcraft
UMD
Sense Motive
Listen

Martial Weapon:Scythe
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-




Duskblade


2nd
Duskblade
+1
+2
+0
+4

Arcane attunement, armored mage (light)
3
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
Duskblade
+2
+3
+0
+5
Earth Sense
Combat Casting
4
4
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
Human Paragon
+3
+3
+0
+6
Earth Spell
+1 Duskblade
5
5
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
Human Paragon
+4
+4
+1
+6

+1 Duskblade, +2 WIS
6
6
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-



Ur-Priest


6th
Ur-Priest
+4
+4
+1
+8
Maximize

4
5
-
-
-
-
-
-
-



7th
Ur-Priest
+5
+4
+1
+9

Rebuke Undead
5
6
2
-
-
-
-
-
-



8th
Ur-Priest
+6
+5
+2
+9


5
6
3
2
-
-
-
-
-



9th
Ur-Priest
+7
+5
+2
+10
Easy Metamagic
Divine spell resistance 15
6
6
4
3
2
-
-
-
-



10th
Ur-Priest
+7
+5
+2
+10


6
6
5
4
3
2
-
-
-



11th
Ur-Priest
+8
+6
+3
+11

Siphon spell power
6
6
5
5
4
3
1
-
-



12th
Ur-Priest
+9
+6
+3
+11
Practiced Spellcaster(Ur-Priest)

6
7
5
5
5
4
2
1
-



13th
Ur-Priest
+10
+6
+3
+12

Divine spell resistance 20
6
7
6
5
5
5
3
2
1



14th
Ur-Priest
+10
+7
+4
+12


6
8
6
6
6
6
4
3
2
1


15th
Ur-Priest
+11
+7
+4
+13
Versatile Spellcaster
Steal spell-like ability
6
8
7
6
6
6
5
4
3
2



Skill totals:


Bluff¹
CHA
+18


Concentration¹
CON
+18


Knowledge (arcana)
INT
+20


Knowledge (religion)
INT
+10


Knowledge (the planes)
INT
+10


Move Silently¹
DEX*
+6


Spellcraft
INT
+22


Use Magic Device
CHA
+16


-

Too many tables? Any advise for what I might want to shuffle around? Or DCS around?
Items: So far, just a peripet of wisdom +6. Item advise also welcome. Thinking of a headband of intellect for some more duskblade shenanies.

[Lightlawbliss]

few questions:
What do you mean by "bought off in past" on the LA?

What do you have the lines saying only "Duskblade" and "Ur-Priest" in there for?

Why duskblade, what does it add over other options?

at quick glance, you seem to be merging arcane spell casting with divine spell casting. Are you?

have you thought of limiting your skills to just the ones that are different from the key ability and just adding a note saying the rest are equal to their ability score?

[torrasque666]

few questions:
What do you mean by "bought off in past" on the LA?

What do you have the lines saying only "Duskblade" and "Ur-Priest" in there for?

Why duskblade, what does it add over other options?

at quick glance, you seem to be merging arcane spell casting with divine spell casting. Are you?

have you thought of limiting your skills to just the ones that are different from the key ability and just adding a note saying the rest are equal to their ability score?

"Bought off in the Past" basically is how we justify starting at the experience floor(We use a group XP pool. Everyone has the same XP.) Changing that to "Free" for less confusion
Duskblade was for the fort saves, and also because arcane casting is a requirement for.... ****! Didn't read arcane thesis well enough. Well, that's being scratched. Any ideas on what to replace it with? Maybe a few dip in fighter so I can DCS the feats out?
The two lines were to separate out which spells went where, but if I scratch it for fighter that'll change.
And yeah, the skills to I'm def thinking of limiting.

[Coidzor]

Can you use the Free +2 LA to take 2 bloodline levels without having to go by the ruling where those eat up an actual level slot without providing the HD & skillpoints of a level? Even a single level would let you get in a level early with Human Paragon 1/Savage Bard 3 to bypass the skill cap. Oh wait, no, you're using it for the Shadow Template.

What's with the asterisk and superscripts in the skills section? I suppose I should mention there's a Ravenloft feat (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=5m5b568i13phq53oo9doq39ia7&topic=12131.msg208146#msg208146) that might be of interest, though it'd be redundant with bloodline cheese, seeing as you are interested in getting 9ths as early as possible. Non-WOTC though, of course.

Also what's with levels 2 to 5 not being listed at all? What were they and what are you wanting to do with 'em? It seems like some were Duskblade?

Also, what do you want to do with those last five levels right now or are you blanking out on that or does the campaign end about then?

[torrasque666]

Can you use the Free +2 LA to take 2 bloodline levels without having to go by the ruling where those eat up an actual level slot without providing the HD & skillpoints of a level? Even a single level would let you get in a level early with Human Paragon 1/Savage Bard 3 to bypass the skill cap. Oh wait, no, you're using it for the Shadow Template.

What's with the asterisk and superscripts in the skills section? I suppose I should mention there's a Ravenloft feat (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=5m5b568i13phq53oo9doq39ia7&topic=12131.msg208146#msg208146) that might be of interest, though it'd be redundant with bloodline cheese, seeing as you are interested in getting 9ths as early as possible. Non-WOTC though, of course.

Also what's with levels 2 to 5 not being listed at all? What were they and what are you wanting to do with 'em? It seems like some were Duskblade?

Also, what do you want to do with those last five levels right now or are you blanking out on that or does the campaign end about then?

I pulled most of this from Heroforge, so theres still some stuff left over, such as the format funnies. I was thinking going for a few levels in Duskblade so that at the very least I could get Arcane Mastery, as well as DCS its combat casting out for something better. Also, it'll give me a boost to casting, slightly and its probably the only arcane casting class that has a good fort save. Also this way the Human Paragon's +2 casting levels aren't going to waste.

As for the levels past 15, I have no idea what to put there as Ur-Priest locks me out of further divine casting. Unless more duskblade. Or start dipping into random classes for bonus feats to DCS out.

EDIT: Put the blanked out levels back in. Decided on replacement for Arcane Thesis.

Going with Versatile Spellcaster for replacement. Hey, it never says I can't use two lower level slots to prep a higher one.

[Coidzor]

I pulled most of this from Heroforge, so theres still some stuff left over, such as the format funnies. I was thinking going for a few levels in Duskblade so that at the very least I could get Arcane Mastery, as well as DCS its combat casting out for something better. Also, it'll give me a boost to casting, slightly and its probably the only arcane casting class that has a good fort save. Also this way the Human Paragon's +2 casting levels aren't going to waste.

As for the levels past 15, I have no idea what to put there as Ur-Priest locks me out of further divine casting. Unless more duskblade. Or start dipping into random classes for bonus feats to DCS out.

Ahh, formatting artifacts.

If Unearthed Arcana variant classes are on the table at all then Savage Bard gives you Good Fort and Will saves, Arcane Casting, 6+int skill points, a pretty good skill list, and I suppose you could trade bardic knowledge for bardic knack for a paltry bonus to your skills that you don't care about... Could allow you to go Mystic Theurge after Ur-Priest 2 and grab some Sublime Chord while you're at it instead of going through the entirety of the Ur-Priest class.

Something like Human Paragon 1/Savage Bard 2/Human Paragon +2/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 4/Sublime Chord 1/Mystic Theurge +4/Sublime Chord +4? Though that'd delay you 1 level from Ur-Priest 9ths in order to get Sublime Chord 9ths.

Even without Sublime Chord, ~12 levels of Bard casting and 9th level Ur-Priest spells would present some opportunities for those last few levels, I suppose, and 1st to 4th level bard spells aren't too shabby a complement to Ur-Priest casting...

With 2-3 levels worth of bloodline cheese a Savage Bard 3 should be able to squeeze in the skill points and the saves while also having amassed enough wealth to buy Iron Will from the Otyugh Hole. Which would also give more wiggle room for the skill prereqs for Sublime Chord too....

[torrasque666]

I know that Sublime Chord is good and all, but for some reason I just... don't like bards. Don't know why, just never really want to play one. The goal of this was mostly "get divine 9ths" and using arcane casting only because a fair amount of spell feats rely on arcane casting. If I was going to go for both, I'd just swap out Duskblade for Rogue and go Chameleon instead.

[nedz]

Ahh, formatting artifacts.

If Unearthed Arcana variant classes are on the table at all then Savage Bard gives you Good Fort and Will saves, Arcane Casting, 6+int skill points, a pretty good skill list, and I suppose you could trade bardic knowledge for bardic knack for a paltry bonus to your skills that you don't care about... Could allow you to go Mystic Theurge after Ur-Priest 2 and grab some Sublime Chord while you're at it instead of going through the entirety of the Ur-Priest class.

Something like Human Paragon 1/Savage Bard 2/Human Paragon +2/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 4/Sublime Chord 1/Mystic Theurge +4/Sublime Chord +4? Though that'd delay you 1 level from Ur-Priest 9ths in order to get Sublime Chord 9ths.

Even without Sublime Chord, ~12 levels of Bard casting and 9th level Ur-Priest spells would present some opportunities for those last few levels, I suppose, and 1st to 4th level bard spells aren't too shabby a complement to Ur-Priest casting...

With 2-3 levels worth of bloodline cheese a Savage Bard 3 should be able to squeeze in the skill points and the saves while also having amassed enough wealth to buy Iron Will from the Otyugh Hole. Which would also give more wiggle room for the skill prereqs for Sublime Chord too....

I don't think you can split Mystic Theurge around Sublime Chord like that, MT would stick to the Bard progression.
There are a number of 5 level entries into Ur-Priest, HP is a good trick for any Arcane class mind.

[Urpriest]

I'm confused. Is the goal of all that Earth Spell/Versatile Spellcaster tech to sacrifice Duskblade slots for Urpriest ones? Where does Maximize fit in?

You should consider going with Duskblade 3, to channel Harm and the like. It would mean less Wis though.

[torrasque666]

Mostly the Maximize is so that I can use some metamagic reducing stuff, namely easy metamagic, to maximize Harm as a big damage dealer. Earth Spell and Heighten are mostly so I can use my higher level DCs easier. As for Versatile Spellcaster its mostly so I can convert my Duskblade slots to Ur-priest, as it does specify that they have to be the same class, as well as allowing me to sacrifice Ur-Priest slots for higher level spells as again, the wording is kinda loose.

Then again, this was thrown together in a few minutes to just test a build. The actual formatting of the post took longer than building it.

[Urpriest]

Mostly the Maximize is so that I can use some metamagic reducing stuff, namely easy metamagic, to maximize Harm as a big damage dealer. Earth Spell and Heighten are mostly so I can use my higher level DCs easier. As for Versatile Spellcaster its mostly so I can convert my Duskblade slots to Ur-priest, as it does specify that they have to be the same class, as well as allowing me to sacrifice Ur-Priest slots for higher level spells as again, the wording is kinda loose.

Then again, this was thrown together in a few minutes to just test a build. The actual formatting of the post took longer than building it.

Maximizing Harm does absolutely nothing, Harm's damage isn't variable.

Earth/Heighten...eh, do you expect to be using a lot of spells that offer saves? A lot of the better ones don't. Even then, other gimmicks (Snowcasting and friends) might give you more of a DC boost.

Versatile Spellcaster cheese, if approved, would be worthwhile, since Urpriests do tend to be low on slots.

[torrasque666]

Sorry, I meant Harm, Greater.

[Urpriest]

Sorry, I meant Harm, Greater.

Hmm...with just East Metamagic mitigating, you're spending a 9th on single-target damage, when you've got access to the full range of Cleric 9s and not a lot of 9ths per day. Doesn't seem worth it, especially since channeled Harm should already be solid damage if you go Duskblade 3.

[torrasque666]

Still kinda new to the whole "casters" bit. Though the more I do it the more I want to just go back to my Juggernaut. Maybe swap out some levels of fighter for some Warblade levels..

And if I really need to I can practical metamagic some slots up to 9th. Lets see... to get a 9th slot would require
2 8ths
4 7ths
8 6ths
16 5ths
32 4ths.... oh jesus...

Welp. that's not really a viable option now is it?

[Lightlawbliss]

Sorry, I meant Harm, Greater.

you do realize that harm has a higher average damage then greater harm (http://dndtools.eu/spells/heroes-of-horror--70/harm-greater--1439/).

unmodified greater harm has a maximum average (cl 20) of 130 (standard deviation of about 15.4) with a range of 20 to 240.
unmodified harm has a maximum of 150: over one standard deviation above the max average of greater harm.

at cl 15 (when harm reaches max), greater harm averages 97.5, standard deviation about 13.4, range 15 to 180. Maximized greater harm gets you only 30 more damage then normal harm.

[torrasque666]

you do realize that harm has a higher average damage then greater harm (http://dndtools.eu/spells/heroes-of-horror--70/harm-greater--1439/).

unmodified greater harm has a maximum average (cl 20) of 130 (standard deviation of about 15.4) with a range of 20 to 240.
unmodified harm has a maximum of 150: over one standard deviation above the max average of greater harm.

at cl 15 (when harm reaches max), greater harm averages 97.5, standard deviation about 13.4, range 15 to 180. Maximized greater harm gets you only 30 more damage then normal harm.

Hence only using a maximized version of it.

[Lightlawbliss]

Hence only using a maximized version of it.

Even maximized, you peak at 240 damage. That is a 90 damage boost for multiple feats and a much higher spell lvl.