Cheesiest ways to get into Spelldancer prc

[Aerris]

Well, the title says it all.

What are the most effective ways to avoid that extremely heavy feat tax? All kinds of cheese allowed.

[Nettlekid]

Cheesy way around feat taxes? Be an Elf and Chaos Shuffle all those Weapon Proficiencies.

[Cruiser1]

What are the most effective ways to avoid that extremely heavy feat tax? All kinds of cheese allowed.
Spelldancer requires the four feats: Dodge, Mobility, Endurance, and Combat Casting. All four feats can be obtained through spells and items:


Dodge: Cast Heroics (SC), or take Devil Bloodline (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm#devil)
Mobility: Cast Heroics (SC), or wear +1 armor of Mobility
Endurance: Cast Unfailing Endurance (DotF)
Combat Casting: Cast Mirror Move (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20000901a), then cast Summon Monster VII to bring in a Djinni, or Summon Monster VIII to bring in a Lillend, and watch it defensively cast a spell

[Aegis013]

A Ranger 3/Duskblade 2 can have all of the necessary feats by then without flaws.

1. Dodge
3. Endurance (from Ranger), Mobility
5. Combat Casting (from Duskblade)

You still need to get 6 ranks of perform... which is another matter.

Edit: Thought Duskblade got Combat Casting at 1 instead of 2 for some reason, double checked and corrected it.

[A_S]

Cheesy way around feat taxes? Be an Elf and Chaos Shuffle all those Weapon Proficiencies.
Yeah, I was gonna say Pazuzu for Candles of Invocation, wish for use-activated items of Shun and Embrace the Dark Chaos, DCFS elf feats into the requirements. Just for the sake of maximal cheese.

[Aerris]

So, let's say you get into Spelldancer by casting Heroics, Unfailing Endurance and Mirror Move - would this mean you'd lose all abilities (spelldancing and one caster level) once the spells expire?

Bit of offtopic - I don't know why, but i actually like the elven proficiencies, especially longsword one, so i doubt I'd have the heart to give 'em up. :smallbiggrin:

[Irk]

A Human Martial Wizard 3 with 2 flaws and an 18 INT can grab all four feats as well as Versatile Spellcaster and Able Learner to meet the Spellcasting and Skill prerequisites. Level 3 entry on a 5 level PrC is pretty good.

[Cruiser1]

So, let's say you get into Spelldancer by casting Heroics, Unfailing Endurance and Mirror Move - would this mean you'd lose all abilities (spelldancing and one caster level) once the spells expire?
Yes, however that usually isn't a problem for Spelldancer builds. Spelldance up Persistent Spell for your buffs, and these spells will last 24 hours and so be up all the time. Beyond that, a build using Spelldancer for long term buffs (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?280365-Priya-the-Prismatic-Priestess-Buffs-Across-the-Spectrum) doesn't actually need Spelldancing to be active all day, but rather only at the start of the day when buffs are actually applied.

[Aerris]

Yes, however that usually isn't a problem for Spelldancer builds. Spelldance up Persistent Spell for your buffs, and these spells will last 24 hours and so be up all the time. Beyond that, a build using Spelldancer for long term buffs (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?280365-Priya-the-Prismatic-Priestess-Buffs-Across-the-Spectrum) doesn't actually need Spelldancing to be active all day, but rather only at the start of the day when buffs are actually applied.

That's exactly the conclusion I was hoping to get to :smallbiggrin:
Although, I'm still not sure if I got this part right - if i lose the buffs, do i lose +1 casting level i got from PRC?

[molten_dragon]

Yes, however that usually isn't a problem for Spelldancer builds. Spelldance up Persistent Spell for your buffs, and these spells will last 24 hours and so be up all the time. Beyond that, a build using Spelldancer for long term buffs (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?280365-Priya-the-Prismatic-Priestess-Buffs-Across-the-Spectrum) doesn't actually need Spelldancing to be active all day, but rather only at the start of the day when buffs are actually applied.

Yeah, but losing a level of casting (or more, if you take more than 1 level of spelldancer) in the middle of a fight because you got dispelled and no longer meet the prerequisites for the class is a pretty big risk to take.

[Aerris]

Yeah, but losing a level of casting (or more, if you take more than 1 level of spelldancer) in the middle of a fight because you got dispelled and no longer meet the prerequisites for the class is a pretty big risk to take.

Yup, that's the only thing that worries me.

[nedz]

The expected entry is probably: Monk 2 with the Cobra Strike option gives you Dodge and Mobility, Monk also has Perform, Tumble and Concentration as a class skills.

The Carmelite or Kung Foo feats to make your Monk Int focussed rather than Wis based will also give you some skill points.

Then 5 levels of Wizard, exiting into Enlightened Fist. Beguiler 6 can also work here, and has a few advantages.

Standard Early entry tricks can be used to gain earlier entry, but there are still the two lost caster levels.

[Cruiser1]

Yeah, but losing a level of casting (or more, if you take more than 1 level of spelldancer) in the middle of a fight because you got dispelled and no longer meet the prerequisites for the class is a pretty big risk to take.
Spelldancer buff builds spend most if not all of their spell slots on buffs. For example, Edith the E6 Persistomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?356451) casts everything but a few cantips at the start of each day. Therefore it doesn't matter if you lose a caster level, since you aren't going to be casting more spells. Losing a caster level may lose a few spell slots, but again that doesn't matter since they've already been used.

Yes, getting dispelled or disjuncted can take down any buff centered build. However, such builds have a number of defenses against this. They include free or immediate action spells such as Celerity, Wings of Cover, Contingency, or Battlemagic Perception + counterspell. They may include items like Ring of Spell-Battle, or Ring of Counterspells or Spellblades set to dispelling spells. At higher levels it's not hard to get your CL to 30, so even a max roll of 40 on a Greater Dispel Magic check won't beat the 11+CL DC. Yes there are ways to pump dispel checks, but also additional ways to pump CL or resist dispel checks.

No optimized build ever takes more than one level of Spelldancer. :smalltongue: That PrC is completely frontloaded, which is part of its power/brokenness. There's nothing else in its other four levels that anything but the most specialized builds would ever care about (other than full casting, but there are many better PrC's to go into after Spelldancer 1).