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Chaosvii7
2014-06-22, 04:06 AM
(Foreword: I want to see and hear every system that games and GMs alike have used to generate random encounters, but the example and the intended use will probably be for d20 play. Feel free to list any systems, I'll still look at all of them, I promise!)

Hey, all! I'm very interested in getting a few games started that will have both aspects of locality but still involve being out in the open of the world where there's little security and danger can lurk all around. That said, most of the other games at my FLGS handle this somewhat universally.

Literally every other GM in the store uses a d12 system to determine the potential of a random encounter threat. "Okay, we're setting out to travel to the town 3 days from here. d12 Check!" Basically, if you get high enough on the d12 you'll wind up rolling on random encounter tables(usually generated by the GMs themselves); If not, you're fine and you make it through the next leg of your journey until you're prompted to roll again. It's used by the owner of the store first and foremost, and due to a renaissance of campaigns in the last year, everybody is now using the system for their own games.

It really bothers me that literally every other person I play under that isn't playing organized has used the system, be it mathematically secure or just easy to implement or whatever. I'm a little tired of it, even if it gives the d12 more love than it normally would have. Not that I don't love fighting like a good murderhobo, but I am very curious as to any roleplaying game systems that determine random encounters with actual hard-written mechanics, or if any GMs use any systems for when people are trying to adventure around. I'm open to any and all ideas for random encounter generation while traveling.

Mind you, I am totally fine with not having random encounters, but I want to make sure there's not enough linearity to the point where people feel shoehorned into the story. A random encounter definitely spices up the experience a little bit, and there should be some untold events that are going on as they travel. Also everybody else does it and I want to be the cool guy with his own system for it. :smallbiggrin:

Any and all help and insights you can provide would be much appreciated; Thank you!

Yora
2014-06-22, 04:57 AM
I do overland travel on a hexmap with 6-mile hexes and make a roll for every hex the party enters and once per night when camping outdoors. A 1 on a d6 means they run into something.
I prepare a list with 12 encounters that are appropriate for the area they are passing through and if there is an encounter, I roll a d12 to see which one.
Last, I roll a d6 for each side. On a 1 and 2 they see the other side only when they are very close and are suprised. If both sides are suprised, the encounter starts with both side being close to each other, if neither side is surprised, they spot each other from a safe distance.

Indoors it works about the same, I just roll once about every 10 minutes and any time the party does something particularly noisy.

falloutimperial
2014-06-22, 08:50 AM
I am DM'ing a commoner campaign and I've set it up so that the players are guaranteed to encounter something, even if it isn't a combat encounter. Accordingly, a custom d100 table is needed. I've included it below.



Moose
Bear
Scavengers scavenging (1d2 animals or humans)
2d6 Wolves
2d4 wolves
Lone Wolf
Lost Dog
3d4 Wild Cats
1d2 Deer
Fire Ants
Bees/Wasps
Fox
Rats
Lost Goat
Horse
Lost Horse
Roll twice 1-16. These are fighting
Roll twice 1-16. These are friends.
Missionary
Messenger
1d4 Adventurers
Hunters
Pilgrim
1d4 Mercenaries
Noble Caravan
Tinker
Small Circus
Merchant
Travelling Minstrels
A Knight and Squire/Herald
Convict
Constable
Soldiers moving through the country
Food Caravan
Metal Goods Caravan
Woodworks Caravan
Luxuries Caravan
Domesticated Animal Drivers
19-38 attacked by 1-18.
Roll twice 19-38. These are fighting/ arguing
Roll twice 19-38. These are allied.
Bandits disguised as 19-38
Crazed Bandit
2d4 Bandits
2d2 Bandit Ambush
10d8 Bandit Travellers
Slaver
Ascetic
Thief
2d4 Thieves
Bully
2d4 Bullies
Magical Thief
Charlatan
Roll twice 42-54. These are fighting.
Roll twice 42-54. These are allied.
1-16 fighting 42-54
19-38 fighting 42-54
Rain
Rain. Roll again.
Heavy Rain
Empty Caravan
Map stuck to tree
Empty Caravan full of precious items/money. It is precariously placed.
Injury, like a sprained ankle
Lost and delirious citizen
Very windy. Roll again.
Lost. DC 15 Survival or roll a few more rolls.
Chance for useful or precious flowers. DC 10 or 15.
Broken down caravan. DC 15 relevant skill to help.
Muddy hills. DC 15 balance.
Travelers trying to decipher a crypt or map. DC 20 or 15 decipher script.
Hunter caught in bear trap. DC 15 disable device.
Dying 1-16
Precious item in a tree.
Unburied treasure. DC 20 lock.
19-41 cannot speak common.
Someone is drowning in a body of water.
Sharp cliff. Must be climbed. DC15.
Sharp cliff. Must be descended. DC 10 use rope or DC tumble.
Local legend
Friendly ghost
Unfriendly ghost
19-38 looking for a contest.
Well
Bad Well
Fire
A cheap and mundane item breaks
The ground becomes sharp stones.
The ground gets muddy. Roll again.
Soft loam makes a good spot for a nap.
Cold Snap
Mistaken for a criminal
Hazardous Plants
Road Sign
Sunken Pillar
Lost item
Lost precious item
Prosthetic salesperson
Roll 1-99 twice and sort that out.

Jormengand
2014-06-22, 09:05 AM
I don't.

Randomly generated encounters lead to a case of "There's a moose here; why is the moose here?" when the real question to ask is "What might attack the PCs here, and why might it attack them? What is the creature's motive, and what does it want which is incompatible with the PCs' motives and therefore leads to conflict?"

With the moose, it's a case of coming up with what the moose actually wants, and for that matter why the hell it's even there, just because you happened to roll up a moose. You have to think up what the messenger is doing, even if it makes no sense that there would even be a messenger there. Why? You rolled a 20, that's why. It's not a problem with that table; that was just an example.

Also, the encounter may not be anything like the correct CR. A fox is not as challenging as an average of 45 bandits. Unless you use a new table for each CR, that's a problem which won't be solved easily.

DM Nate
2014-06-22, 10:30 AM
I don't have "random" encounters in my sessions. I create a shortlist of appropriately-themed creatures or enemies that fit into the story and that they are likely to run into.

While I have rooms or areas that my parties will "likely" meet the encounters, I have them on the sidelines for any point where their appearance would be appropriate or when they would help change the tempo.

John Longarrow
2014-06-22, 11:35 AM
For myself, I set out an encounter map that I use. I roll dice so people THINK its random, but I know ahead of time what each and every fight is that they will encounter. This avoids a LOT of issues, especially TPKs when they hit something hard on a "Random encounter" table OR they hit multiple fights when I'm not planning for it.

Much less of a pain for me, and much more fun for the players.

Thrudd
2014-06-22, 08:10 PM
1e AD&D DMG has guidelines for the frequency of wilderness random encounter checks based on population density and terrain type of the given region being travelled through.

Densely populated areas (hexes with towns and cities), have a base 1 in 20 chance of encounter. Moderate population to sparse/patrolled areas are 1 in 12. Wilderness/uninhabited areas are 1 in 10.

The frequency of checks depend on the terrain. There are seven different terrain types specified in total. Days are divided into six four hour increments. For example, in plains regions a check is made 3 times each 24 hours. Forest regions makes a check every single 4 hour increment. When a check is not made in every increment, you should mix up which time of day you make the checks so the players don't come to anticipate it.

The actual encounter type/creature is determined by a d100 table which varies depending on the climate and terrain type. There are not 100 different creatures on the tables, they are arranged so that some creatures will be more commonly encountered than others. DM's are encouraged to modify these tables to suit their own campaign world, removing creatures they don't want, adding others, adjusting the rarity. The tables are published in the DMG and fiend folio, and include just about every creature found in the core MM and Folio. Of course, you could create your own tables wholesale and use a d20 or d12 or whatever you want. I think the d100 is best, because it allows the most variability in encounter type and rarity.

For dungeon areas, you ideally have a custom designed wandering monster table based on the inhabitants of the specific dungeon. Time is divided into ten minute turns, and the frequency of checks is determined by the DM (or published adventure) according to the specific dungeon. It could be a check every single turn, every three turns or however often you want. The chance of encounter is likewise specific to the dungeon/adventure, it might be 1 in 20 or 1 in 10 or anything you want. It should depend on the population of the dungeon and might be modified by other variables as well, like time of day/night or how much noise the party might be making. Published modules tell you how often to make checks, what the chances of an encounter are, and have tables which could be 1d10, 12, or 20 indicating the creature encountered. Creating these tables are a big part of preparing your own adventures.

When there is no custom-made encounter table, the DMG and FF provides ten d100 tables describing encounters for each layer of a dungeon which should roughly correspond to the average level of the party. Another table indicates which d100 table should be rolled on, depending on the difficulty of the dungeon region. A random encounter in a level one dungeon will most likely come from Monster Table Level I (the weakest), but there is a small chance of an encounter from Table level II or III. As dungeon difficulty increases, so do the chances of encounters from more difficult monster tables.

Jay R
2014-06-22, 11:17 PM
I have a very straightforward method for determining when random encounters show up.

When the players are totally bogged down and not getting anywhere, and are bored and frustrated, I fulfill my DM's duty by making the game interesting again. Specifically, I provide them with a focus and sense of purpose, in the form of somebody trying to kill them.

Thrudd
2014-06-22, 11:48 PM
For myself, I set out an encounter map that I use. I roll dice so people THINK its random, but I know ahead of time what each and every fight is that they will encounter. This avoids a LOT of issues, especially TPKs when they hit something hard on a "Random encounter" table OR they hit multiple fights when I'm not planning for it.

Much less of a pain for me, and much more fun for the players.

What's the point of making them think it's random? So you can divert their complaints when they don't like an encounter you've selected?


Also you seem to have some misconceptions about how to use random encounters.
A.) That you are not in control of what is on the table. If you don't want them to encounter something hard, don't put something hard on the table, or reroll.
B.) That there will be fights happening that you don't want...if you don't want any chance for an encounter, don't roll for one
C.) That there is no choice but a fight to the death when they encounter something. It is ok for them to encounter something too hard for them to defeat, so long as they can avoid it, negotiate with it, or run away from it. Encounters that can't be beaten by force are sometimes the most interesting, it forces the players to think outside the box. Other times it leads to memorable social encounters.

Random encounters are fun for the DM as well as the players. As long as the world is logical, consistent, and fairly presented, and the players always have free choice in their actions, they make for a rich and exciting experience.
It is more of a pain to plan and control every single aspect of the players' experience from start to finish, a lot more work in the long run. But I understand this is how many games are played nowadays.

Comet
2014-06-23, 01:23 AM
Randomly generated encounters lead to a case of "There's a moose here; why is the moose here?" when the real question to ask is "What might attack the PCs here, and why might it attack them? What is the creature's motive, and what does it want which is incompatible with the PCs' motives and therefore leads to conflict?"

With the moose, it's a case of coming up with what the moose actually wants, and for that matter why the hell it's even there, just because you happened to roll up a moose. You have to think up what the messenger is doing, even if it makes no sense that there would even be a messenger there. Why? You rolled a 20, that's why. It's not a problem with that table; that was just an example.

Also, the encounter may not be anything like the correct CR. A fox is not as challenging as an average of 45 bandits. Unless you use a new table for each CR, that's a problem which won't be solved easily.

Asking "why is the moose here" is one of the most enjoyable parts of D&D, for me. Random generation really gets your imagination going. And CR is not that much of a problem if you give the adventurers an opportunity to evade the encounter or rig it in their favour.

Yora
2014-06-23, 03:45 AM
I think random encounters work best, when the players don't know if the encounter was random, semi-random, or fixed.
If you know it's random, you can either chose to kill the beast for XP and loot, or just run away. It may, or may not be defeatable by the party.
But if the encounter is part of the villains forces, then you can be reasonably sure they are defeatable, but trying to run away will cause more problems later on, as these won't simply disappear again.
Not knowing which one of these an encounter is makes things much more interesting.

With a few exceptions, GM will not create story encounters that can not be overcome by the PCs, or it will be very obvious that they can't. Which tells the players that if an encounter is not random, there is few risk in engaging in combat. If they never know when an encounter is truly random, they can never feel safe and always have to be ready for retreat.
A good way to mix things up further is to have semi-random encounters, like enemy patrols. These groups of creatures are part of the enemy forces and are custom built for the adventure, but they still show up at a random point, or may not show up at all. Which further increasing the unpredictability of encounters.

JusticeZero
2014-06-23, 03:57 AM
Random encounters should never be random. You want to travel across a lot of distance. You need to communicate that it's a long trip. Do so by having all these small adventurettes pop up every few miles. The farmer's cattle were taken by ogres, oh noes, that's half a session gone.. The next day is a village that worships a carnivorous tree in the middle of a festival.. Then later you play hide and seek with Evilton scouts.. Then there's the pilgrims.. Eventually the party makes it into the place they were going.

Thrudd
2014-06-23, 05:15 AM
I think random encounters work best, when the players don't know if the encounter was random, semi-random, or fixed.
If you know it's random, you can either chose to kill the beast for XP and loot, or just run away. It may, or may not be defeatable by the party.
But if the encounter is part of the villains forces, then you can be reasonably sure they are defeatable, but trying to run away will cause more problems later on, as these won't simply disappear again.
Not knowing which one of these an encounter is makes things much more interesting.

With a few exceptions, GM will not create story encounters that can not be overcome by the PCs, or it will be very obvious that they can't. Which tells the players that if an encounter is not random, there is few risk in engaging in combat. If they never know when an encounter is truly random, they can never feel safe and always have to be ready for retreat.
A good way to mix things up further is to have semi-random encounters, like enemy patrols. These groups of creatures are part of the enemy forces and are custom built for the adventure, but they still show up at a random point, or may not show up at all. Which further increasing the unpredictability of encounters.

The issue is not that the players know which encounters are random and which aren't. The issue is that they expect you to design encounters which they can beat and therefore there is no real danger. They should never feel safe, combat should always be risky and potentially deadly, whether it is a pre-planned encounter in a stocked dungeon or a wandering monster. There should be no such thing as a "story encounter" with a pre-planned or anticipated outcome, even when they are roughly level appropriate.

That said, the DM should keep most rolls hidden in order to keep the players on edge and immersed in the world. You definitely don't tell them "time for a wandering monster" or "this is the encounter keyed to this location". The players should not be aware of what is going on behind the screen when at all possible. The random encounter tables should be roughly the same distribution and difficulty of monster as the adventure location/dungeon itself, so there is little difference whether they guess that an encounter was randomly rolled or was pre-stocked. In some cases, the stocked monsters are also potentially wandering monsters, they could be randomly encountered in different parts of the dungeon.

Random encounters should never really be completely random, as in flipping to a random entry in the monster manual regardless of the circumstances (which it seems like some people assume is the case). They are always from tables tailored and appropriate for the environment. Ideally the DM has created the tables to fit the campaign world precisely, and each adventure has its own tables for wandering monsters/encounters. You won't get a frost wolf randomly in the desert, or a purple worm floating through the astral plane for no reason.

Lord Psychodin
2014-06-23, 05:55 AM
The issue is not that the players know which encounters are random and which aren't. The issue is that they expect you to design encounters which they can beat and therefore there is no real danger. They should never feel safe, combat should always be risky and potentially deadly, whether it is a pre-planned encounter in a stocked dungeon or a wandering monster. There should be no such thing as a "story encounter" with a pre-planned or anticipated outcome, even when they are roughly level appropriate.

That said, the DM should keep most rolls hidden in order to keep the players on edge and immersed in the world. You definitely don't tell them "time for a wandering monster" or "this is the encounter keyed to this location". The players should not be aware of what is going on behind the screen when at all possible. The random encounter tables should be roughly the same distribution and difficulty of monster as the adventure location/dungeon itself, so there is little difference whether they guess that an encounter was randomly rolled or was pre-stocked. In some cases, the stocked monsters are also potentially wandering monsters, they could be randomly encountered in different parts of the dungeon.

Random encounters should never really be completely random, as in flipping to a random entry in the monster manual regardless of the circumstances (which it seems like some people assume is the case). They are always from tables tailored and appropriate for the environment. Ideally the DM has created the tables to fit the campaign world precisely, and each adventure has its own tables for wandering monsters/encounters. You won't get a frost wolf randomly in the desert, or a purple worm floating through the astral plane for no reason.
There's definitely a few things here that are right, but definitely a few that are bizarre. The idea that encounters need to be well balanced, and as well the point of that when they are random, that a character feels they're not expected *where appropriate* of course. But let's just absolutely nuke from orbit the idea that all encounters are random.

The literary element of foreshadowing in many stories is just the reflection of the qualities that make up expectations in real life, but are mostly made up based on the concept of foreseeable events. So to speak, real life has the nuance of confronting someone usually as opposed to being ambushed. While every PC will not be Sherlock Holmes, at the least the ones with good perception and natural deductive abilities can have the potential to spot the random from the premeditated as it unfolds. And Sherlock is generally portrayed as while brilliant, likely even the wizard or cleric of a low level to be a match of wits. Combine it with a Player's understanding of the flow of an adventure into context, and there's always going to be a problem.

The big boss battle and important battles are always going to push resources and the skill of the player as well as the abilities of a character, regardless of edition and it will be pretty easy to see this coming, unless you want to have huge anticlimaxes and eventually be replaced as a DM. It requires a little bit of fudging the dice as well as the numbers on paper sometimes, but there is a balance.

falloutimperial
2014-06-23, 11:09 AM
I don't.

Randomly generated encounters lead to a case of "There's a moose here; why is the moose here?" when the real question to ask is "What might attack the PCs here, and why might it attack them? ...Also, the encounter may not be anything like the correct CR. A fox is not as challenging as an average of 45 bandits. Unless you use a new table for each CR, that's a problem which won't be solved easily.

Sure. Both of these things were included in the table because that is how I want this particular game to run. Some games run with everything planned out and even-stevens CR, and I love playing those games. Some games require me to improvise more and feature challenges of radically different difficulty. A random event table should be tailored to the region in the game and to the goals of that game itself.

Thrudd
2014-06-23, 05:40 PM
There's definitely a few things here that are right, but definitely a few that are bizarre. The idea that encounters need to be well balanced, and as well the point of that when they are random, that a character feels they're not expected *where appropriate* of course. But let's just absolutely nuke from orbit the idea that all encounters are random.

The literary element of foreshadowing in many stories is just the reflection of the qualities that make up expectations in real life, but are mostly made up based on the concept of foreseeable events. So to speak, real life has the nuance of confronting someone usually as opposed to being ambushed. While every PC will not be Sherlock Holmes, at the least the ones with good perception and natural deductive abilities can have the potential to spot the random from the premeditated as it unfolds. And Sherlock is generally portrayed as while brilliant, likely even the wizard or cleric of a low level to be a match of wits. Combine it with a Player's understanding of the flow of an adventure into context, and there's always going to be a problem.

The big boss battle and important battles are always going to push resources and the skill of the player as well as the abilities of a character, regardless of edition and it will be pretty easy to see this coming, unless you want to have huge anticlimaxes and eventually be replaced as a DM. It requires a little bit of fudging the dice as well as the numbers on paper sometimes, but there is a balance.

Oh, I did not mean to say all encounters should be random. I was saying that all encounters should be dangerous in roughly the same degree. Some encounters will be easy and expend few resources, others will be hard, and some will require retreat or non-combat options, and this should be the case in roughly the same proportions for both wandering monsters and planned/stocked dungeon encounters. The players should not automatically know which is which, but even when it is obvious, that knowledge should not affect their behavior or strategy. They should be no less willing to retreat from the "big boss" fight than they are to retreat from a random purple worm. They should not feel their chances of success are any better fighting the orcs they have been tracking versus fighting a random band of orcs who happen upon their campsite. Also, a random encounter does not necessarily mean an ambush. Most of the time, both parties will see each other from some distance and can decide how to approach the situation.

In other words, "story" should never dictate outcomes of encounters.
I would not want my players thinking "Oh no, this is a random encounter, so it probably isn't level appropriate! We should run away." or "this is a random encounter, so the DM would never kill us here, he wants us to get to the end of the story" and then "This is the bad guy we have been looking for, so we should be able to win this fight if we try hard enough. The DM won't let the story end poorly."

veti
2014-06-23, 06:10 PM
Asking "why is the moose here" is one of the most enjoyable parts of D&D, for me. Random generation really gets your imagination going.

Were you by any chance on the scriptwriting team for Lost?

Comet
2014-06-24, 08:02 AM
Were you by any chance on the scriptwriting team for Lost?

Fair point :smalltongue:

It's worked well enough for me so far, though. All about checking your material and making sure it can be made to work, even if you don't need to think about the specifics before the dice are rolled.

Doorhandle
2014-06-25, 11:12 PM
A tip I heard about for random encounters: Give them a reason to be where they are after you generate them. For since, roll up 1d6 gnolls in the room with the healing fountain? They're tending to their injuries. 3d10 goblins in the room where they killed a dragon? They're feasting on it's corpse. T-rex inside their inn's room? An enemy teleported it in as an assassination attempt. It adds to the verisimilitude that they're supposed to generate.

For this reason it's best if you pre-generate which encounter they'll have, if not when they encounter it, before your start. Or better yet, have a properly-made encounter that you slot in when the number comes up.

edit: msotly ninja'ed

John Longarrow
2014-06-26, 08:07 AM
What's the point of making them think it's random? So you can divert their complaints when they don't like an encounter you've selected?


Also you seem to have some misconceptions about how to use random encounters.
A.) That you are not in control of what is on the table. If you don't want them to encounter something hard, don't put something hard on the table, or reroll.
B.) That there will be fights happening that you don't want...if you don't want any chance for an encounter, don't roll for one
C.) That there is no choice but a fight to the death when they encounter something. It is ok for them to encounter something too hard for them to defeat, so long as they can avoid it, negotiate with it, or run away from it. Encounters that can't be beaten by force are sometimes the most interesting, it forces the players to think outside the box. Other times it leads to memorable social encounters.

Random encounters are fun for the DM as well as the players. As long as the world is logical, consistent, and fairly presented, and the players always have free choice in their actions, they make for a rich and exciting experience.
It is more of a pain to plan and control every single aspect of the players' experience from start to finish, a lot more work in the long run. But I understand this is how many games are played nowadays.

I think you have a misconception as to the topic.
1) This is about "How do you generate Random Encounters". In game, "Random Encounters" represent those encounters that are not plot relevant and seem "Random" to the characters/players.
2) Often, the act of rolling dice gets players to focus on the game. Spending a couple minutes trying to get the players back in character is a waste. Spending five seconds rolling dice where they can hear and watching the players pay attention is much more useful.
3) Posting a strawman such as "That there is no choice but a fight to the death" is very poor etiquette. NOTHING in my post indicates all encounters are "a fight to the death". I simply stated that "I know what they will fight". This does NOT preclude other types of encounters.

Frozen_Feet
2014-06-26, 09:28 AM
I do not have one, single method for determining random encounters. Depending on the environment and quality of an adventure, I usually have multiple different charts at hand, for multiple different purposes.

For example, if an adventure takes place primarily underground, I might have a chart for inhabited mines, abandoned mines and natural tunnels, each with eight items. An eight on a d8 roll will mean an encounter with monsters, other results mean something else. I usually have separate chart for monsters that vary depending on terrain. If it's an abandoned dwarven mine, there'll be another chart telling whether the monsters will be dwarve ghosts or giant lizards. Yet another chart will be used to determine attitude and personality of those monsters.

The important bit is that each encounter list is deliberately made to suit an environment. "Random" is not synonym with "non-sensical".

Another important bit is that "encounter" is not synonym with "a fight". An encounter can be any event to which the characters could react to, and you should bloody well make them interesting! Repeat with me: "random encounters are just as important as my players make them. They are not filler nor are they less worthy than set encounters".

Especially with potentially lethal random encounters, you should treat them with same severity as any other plothook. If the chart shows a purple worm is going to chow on someone, that's a big deal. Don't pre-emptively decide it's less interesting and less allowed to affect the flow of the game than your set encounters.

As far as checking when encounters happen, I decide the frequency based on population density and method of travel. During overland travel, it's almost always once per in-game day, with most common results amounting to "nothing happens". This allows for rapid progress through long distances. In a city or other populous areas, I check encounter results every in-game hour. The ideal is that if players can't decide what to do, they can always state "we wait for a couple of hours for something to happen".

Now, to give an idea of the things I usually put on my encounter charts. This one's for an abandoned mine:

(Roll 1d8)
1. A swarm of bats flies by.
2. Ghostly lights flicker in the passage ahead.
3. Lanterns and candles are suddenly extinquished.
4. A chilly wind blows through the caverns.
5. Sounds of footsteps echo from the passage behind.
6. A shrill laughter echoes through the caves.
7. Earthquake! Save vs. environmental hazards or take 1d10 damage. If more than 1 person rolls 10, the passage behind becomes blocked.
8. Monsters! Roll below:

(Roll 1d6)
1. 1d3 giant centipedes.
2. A lone badger.
3. A lone bear.
4. 1d4 goblins guards.
5. A giant spider.
6. Dwarven ghosts.

As you should be able to guess, many of the above things are red herrings. They have little meaning on their own, but they keep up suspense and can dramatically alter player actions. They also give hints for the game master on where to direct the game and how. If footsteps are heard behind, maybe there could be goblins there?

When I used this chart in my campaign, it caught me completely off guard when my players turned something as mundane as a swarm of bats into a field advantage. You see, they captured the bats - something I hadn't anticipated - and much later in the game used those bats as baits to lure giant centipedes away from their camp! A happenstance allowed them to avoid near-certain death later down the line.

In another, maritime campaign, my players deliberately sailed the seas in hopes of meeting other ships, despite the threat of dragons and giant octopi. It was because the prospect of fighting and looting other ships was so alluring and rewarding to them (partially because sold ships netted a metric ton of experience points...). They had two dozen plothooks dangling before their noses, yet they chose to subject themselves to the whims of fate. The emergent narrative of high piracy and being stranded on the sea were as good as anything I could set up.

Thrudd
2014-06-26, 04:50 PM
I think you have a misconception as to the topic.
1) This is about "How do you generate Random Encounters". In game, "Random Encounters" represent those encounters that are not plot relevant and seem "Random" to the characters/players.
2) Often, the act of rolling dice gets players to focus on the game. Spending a couple minutes trying to get the players back in character is a waste. Spending five seconds rolling dice where they can hear and watching the players pay attention is much more useful.
3) Posting a strawman such as "That there is no choice but a fight to the death" is very poor etiquette. NOTHING in my post indicates all encounters are "a fight to the death". I simply stated that "I know what they will fight". This does NOT preclude other types of encounters.

1.) "Random encounters" to me are meant to be actually randomly generated, not just seem random to the players or be non-plot relevant. This is the misunderstanding I was addressing.

2.) I know what you mean about getting the players to pay attention by rolling dice.

3.) That statement wasn't a strawman, it was a logical extrapolation from "TPK when they roll something hard". Why would a hard creature result in a TPK? The party can retreat, or avoid fighting it at all. Maybe you'll lose one character, but I would hope the rest wouldn't stick around to get killed. Also, you don't need to put potential 1-round TPK creatures, or even moderately difficult creatures, on the encounter table if you don't want them there.
So a danger of TPK and accidentally getting more encounters than you want are not good reasons not to use randomly generated encounters...you, the DM, are in complete control of when to roll for an encounter and what the potential encounters are.

But again, I get that this is not a popular style of playing the game anymore. It just seemed disingenuous to fool your players into thinking they are playing one game (where some encounters are random and you are rolling dice to see what happens), but actually they are playing a game where the DM has planned everything and the dice are not deciding anything. Many players today are OK with this, I know, they expect that the game is run by illusionism and they just don't think about it in order to enjoy the game.

Knaight
2014-06-29, 03:11 PM
1.) "Random encounters" to me are meant to be actually randomly generated, not just seem random to the players or be non-plot relevant. This is the misunderstanding I was addressing.

Not necessarily. The term is used for a few things.
1) Encounters which are randomly generated at the meta game level.
2) Encounters which are essentially random at the in game level.

I generally use the second. Within the context of the game world, the players just bumped into something. Generally, this is because of something in particular they did (staying around a particular location, making noise, lighting a fire, taking a main road when patrols are minimal, etc.). The encounter itself is chosen, but it's not chosen in a plot way at all - it's much more of a "what makes sense to be here" type situation, with the second consideration being "what about this is interesting and should be highlighted". There's also a bit of a meta game concern, of just having enough fights to keep the combat centric players happy.

So, an example: There's a particular scenario I use for one shots with some frequency. The short version is that the player characters are essentially agents of the crown, sent to deal with an escalating conflict between a frontier village and a local tribe (which is secretly caused by a cult harvesting both for human sacrifices). At one point, the player characters went down a main road, and as the situation was obviously destabilized, they bumped into a group of bandits. Then, the tweaking - bandits qua bandits are kind of dull. So, some quick detail was added to their leader - they were wearing an old, tattered military officer's uniform, including the armor, and carrying military equipment. I decided on the spot that they had deserted, that the reasons for their desertion tied into corruption within the empire as much as sheer selfishness.

I'd consider this a random encounter. It's hardly illusionism - the players chose to go straight down the main road in an unstable area, and their choices affected what happened next (which turned out to be a conversation, an attempt to avoid a large scale fight through an honorable duel with the leader, then an actual fight when the leader won said duel really easily because the character up against them was characterized mostly by their delusions of grandeur and lack of actual skill). There were metagame concerns here - it was early in the game, throwing in something to get the players attention was useful, and some of the particular choices made regarding the identity of the bandits were there to help the players better understand the setting, but they were hardly the main thing.

Frozen_Feet
2014-06-29, 04:58 PM
Yes, the GM waving their hands and improvizing "in a way that makes sense" is a very overlooked form of random encounters that definitely exists, even if no die-rolling is involved. I often come up with on-the-spot details to rooms and areas that are, essentially, empty of anything "really interesting", and then note them down for later use. My players have a way to make even those things significant in some way.

Thrudd
2014-06-29, 05:47 PM
Not necessarily. The term is used for a few things.
1) Encounters which are randomly generated at the meta game level.
2) Encounters which are essentially random at the in game level.

I generally use the second. Within the context of the game world, the players just bumped into something. Generally, this is because of something in particular they did (staying around a particular location, making noise, lighting a fire, taking a main road when patrols are minimal, etc.). The encounter itself is chosen, but it's not chosen in a plot way at all - it's much more of a "what makes sense to be here" type situation, with the second consideration being "what about this is interesting and should be highlighted". There's also a bit of a meta game concern, of just having enough fights to keep the combat centric players happy.

So, an example: There's a particular scenario I use for one shots with some frequency. The short version is that the player characters are essentially agents of the crown, sent to deal with an escalating conflict between a frontier village and a local tribe (which is secretly caused by a cult harvesting both for human sacrifices). At one point, the player characters went down a main road, and as the situation was obviously destabilized, they bumped into a group of bandits. Then, the tweaking - bandits qua bandits are kind of dull. So, some quick detail was added to their leader - they were wearing an old, tattered military officer's uniform, including the armor, and carrying military equipment. I decided on the spot that they had deserted, that the reasons for their desertion tied into corruption within the empire as much as sheer selfishness.

I'd consider this a random encounter. It's hardly illusionism - the players chose to go straight down the main road in an unstable area, and their choices affected what happened next (which turned out to be a conversation, an attempt to avoid a large scale fight through an honorable duel with the leader, then an actual fight when the leader won said duel really easily because the character up against them was characterized mostly by their delusions of grandeur and lack of actual skill). There were metagame concerns here - it was early in the game, throwing in something to get the players attention was useful, and some of the particular choices made regarding the identity of the bandits were there to help the players better understand the setting, but they were hardly the main thing.

It's only illusionism if you are pretending to use a random method of generating the encounter for the sake of the players, but actually you have carefully chosen where, when and how many enemies are appearing. This is what Mr.Longarrow originally suggested, rolling dice behind the screen to get their attention before engaging them with a planned encounter.

What you propose is a random encounter perhaps from the perspective of the characters in-game, but in no other sense. The OP was asking about systems for determining random encounters, with the example of rolling d12 to determine if a monster appears. So I feel like this is meant to be about using actual random encounters, not how to design non-plot driving encounters.

The same advice applies to dressing up randomly generated encounters as it does to planned encounters. The DM should use knowledge about the game world to make sense of the randomly generated result, in addition to designing the tables with such knowledge in the first place.

I understand that several people's contribution to the question of how to generate random encounters is "don't use random encounters", because they feel it will interfere with dramatic story pacing and create unplanned-for results. I feel like, even in a game that is structured to follow the DM's story rather than being player directed, unplanned-for results is what makes it a game rather than an elaborate "choose your own adventure" book, in addition to making it more fun for the DM.

Knaight
2014-06-29, 06:59 PM
It's only illusionism if you are pretending to use a random method of generating the encounter for the sake of the players, but actually you have carefully chosen where, when and how many enemies are appearing. This is what Mr.Longarrow originally suggested, rolling dice behind the screen to get their attention before engaging them with a planned encounter.

What you propose is a random encounter perhaps from the perspective of the characters in-game, but in no other sense. The OP was asking about systems for determining random encounters, with the example of rolling d12 to determine if a monster appears. So I feel like this is meant to be about using actual random encounters, not how to design non-plot driving encounters.
It's very much not a carefully planned encounter. It was more along the lines of, "Hey, the players just did something that leaves them obviously vulnerable. Lets say they get attacked by, oh, bandits. How many bandits are likely to show up in this area anyways. Probably a half dozen or so. Anything special about them? Hey, military actions could have easily induced desertion. Might as well have a military officer. Let's see what happens."

I am a very improvisational GM, and tend to have very player directed games. The above was a random encounter, as a result of player actions. It just happens to have not involved dice.


I understand that several people's contribution to the question of how to generate random encounters is "don't use random encounters", because they feel it will interfere with dramatic story pacing and create unplanned-for results. I feel like, even in a game that is structured to follow the DM's story rather than being player directed, unplanned-for results is what makes it a game rather than an elaborate "choose your own adventure" book, in addition to making it more fun for the DM.
That's not really what I've seen here. It's not a matter of interfering with dramatic story pacing and creating unplanned-for results. I don't think anyone here favors the "follow the DM's story" approach.

Plus, the result of the encounter is unplanned for. With that bandit example, I didn't know if there was even going to be a fight. I definitely didn't know that one of the bandits would be ran off towards where the cults were operating, end up captured for sacrifice, and actually end up an ally of the PCs later when one of them got captured to locate the cult, and the rest tried to follow them. The random encounter added a lot. The absence of dice doesn't change that.

TheCorsairMalac
2014-06-29, 07:11 PM
I don't know if it's what you'd consider random, but I keep a list of all the stupid/evil/memorable/heroic things the party has done.

Then I make people seek revenge or further aid or maybe show up to give gifts. Not all the encounters are hostile.

Thrudd
2014-06-29, 08:56 PM
It's very much not a carefully planned encounter. It was more along the lines of, "Hey, the players just did something that leaves them obviously vulnerable. Lets say they get attacked by, oh, bandits. How many bandits are likely to show up in this area anyways. Probably a half dozen or so. Anything special about them? Hey, military actions could have easily induced desertion. Might as well have a military officer. Let's see what happens."

I am a very improvisational GM, and tend to have very player directed games. The above was a random encounter, as a result of player actions. It just happens to have not involved dice.


That's not really what I've seen here. It's not a matter of interfering with dramatic story pacing and creating unplanned-for results. I don't think anyone here favors the "follow the DM's story" approach.

Plus, the result of the encounter is unplanned for. With that bandit example, I didn't know if there was even going to be a fight. I definitely didn't know that one of the bandits would be ran off towards where the cults were operating, end up captured for sacrifice, and actually end up an ally of the PCs later when one of them got captured to locate the cult, and the rest tried to follow them. The random encounter added a lot. The absence of dice doesn't change that.

I see the distinction you're making, between a planned encounter and an improvised encounter. It was not "carefully planned", but neither was it random, since you decided when it would be appropriate for an encounter to happen and decided what type it would be, albeit in the spur of the moment. This is a great skill to have and I'm sure the game was good.

So your advice for generating random encounters is to improvise whatever you think would be appropriate whenever you feel like there should be an encounter, hopefully based somewhat on the actions of the players. I can appreciate that, I just don't think there is anything random about it. How do you decide when there should be an encounter? How do you decide what exactly it will appear?
Is "Improvise using common sense" a system for determining random encounters? I suppose so.

Thrudd
2014-06-30, 03:11 AM
B/X D&D uses a d6 for random encounters. In dungeon, a roll is made every other turn, a result of 1 indicates a wandering monster. The encounter tables are d20, with different tables based on level.

Wilderness encounters are rolled for once each day, also a d6. Probability depends on terrain type, anywhere from 1 in 6 to 1 in 2 chance of encounter each day. The encounter tables also depend on terrain type, but are d8, with each result indicating a category of creature (men, humanoids, animals, etc) which has its own d8 table for the specific encounter.

Socksy
2014-06-30, 05:57 AM
Generally by opening up the monster manual and going "Oooooooo, that looks cool! What's its' CR... Only one higher than the party ECL? It's going in!"

Although often it'll be related to whatever the big boss of the area is. For example, the 'bonus boss' of the campaign I've just started running is a weasel-like species, so a heap of dire weasels are going to be lurking around the areas he's passed through, and there are definitely going to be a lot in any area he's staying in.

Frozen_Feet
2014-06-30, 09:41 AM
I see the distinction you're making, between a planned encounter and an improvised encounter. It was not "carefully planned", but neither was it random, since you decided when it would be appropriate for an encounter to happen and decided what type it would be, albeit in the spur of the moment.

Trust me, the human brain is as good of a random generator as any computer is. Or pseudorandom, as the case might be. It could be said the actions of the players (an often unforeseeable variable to themselves, as no GM is omniscient) serves as the seed for the GM's brain to produce an output that's unique to the situation. It's not much different from how your computer uses a complex algorithm to turn your system clock's output into an apparently random die roll.

elliott20
2014-06-30, 09:42 AM
Personally, I always use random encounter tables as inspirations for ideas and oracles rather than as straight up encounters.

FidgetySquirrel
2014-06-30, 06:16 PM
I roll d% every day, when applicable. In areas with military patrols, etc, I give a 5% rate, for example. I increase the chances based on how far the party is from any settlements, generally capping it at 25% in unpopulated wilderness. I roll again to determine if the encounter is during the day or at night, when it matters. In most areas, I'd go with a d6. A 1 or 2 is daytime, 3-6 is night. I then select what I feel is a good encounter based on the party's level and current fighting condition, and the region they happen to be in.

If I happen to be on vacation or something, I might make out encounter tables for particular areas, but I usually don't bother due to time constraints.

Essentially, my players know that if they're not ready for a fight, don't take a leisurely stroll through Jurassic Park. Roads are safer, especially near larger settlements. It's not perfect, I suppose, but it gets the job done.

some guy
2014-06-30, 07:18 PM
I usually have a d30 table for encounters at day and one at night per region (a d30 table is not as much work as a d100 but much more extensive than a d20 table) and the chance of an encounter is somewhere between 5 and 15%.

But something I never applied but seems like an incredibly neat idea comes from this blog post (http://retiredadventurer.blogspot.nl/2013/05/a-procedure-for-wandering-monsters.html). Basically: roll a d6 for every encounter; 1 is the creature itself; 2 is it's lair; 3 - 6 are spoor, tracks and traces of the creature. This method allows for much more meaningful choices for the players what to do with a random encounter, it allows them to identify a creature beforehand and prepare or avoid a monster.

Chaosvii7
2014-07-01, 08:09 AM
Sorry I've popped in and out of the topic, everyone! I've read the discussion going on and I am totally fine with not having a Random Encounter system so long as I could meaningfully justify it so that it doesn't feel like I'm railroading players but still having a well-developed traveling experience. That said, I am totally fine with this topic turning in the direction of "What systems can I use in place or Random Encounter charts?" It might also help if I make my feelings on the matter a bit more clear.

I feel like I'm just having a hard time visualizing "Your party sets out to the countryside en route to the town across the fens/the mountains/etc." while also considering everything that could happen on the way, as well was the story implications of every encounter I could throw at them. Perhaps I'm just desensitized to Random Encounter systems; The people that use them are all very tedious GMs, so they do an excessive amount of work behind the screens to make sure that anything we could run into is appropriate to every strand of a story and thread of an adventure possible.

I am totally all for just making encounters that are appropriate to the locale and machinations of the story, but I don't want it to feel like an amusement park ride where monsters pop out of doorways trying to scare you(and then you get sucked into an alternate dimension in which you're shoehorned into the role of prophecized heroes being directed to mortal peril by a short hairless guy.) I want to reinforce that the setting I've dropped players into has an opportunity around every narrow and bend they cross.


But something I never applied but seems like an incredibly neat idea comes from this blog post (http://retiredadventurer.blogspot.nl/2013/05/a-procedure-for-wandering-monsters.html). Basically: roll a d6 for every encounter; 1 is the creature itself; 2 is it's lair; 3 - 6 are spoor, tracks and traces of the creature. This method allows for much more meaningful choices for the players what to do with a random encounter, it allows them to identify a creature beforehand and prepare or avoid a monster.

Also, regardless of random encounters or not, I am totally using this for all sorts of encounters as much as I can.