help me build a Character in a 7 players group

[Chelios]

I need some advices for my PC.
In my group there are a warrior, a cleric( domain:destruction and protection), wizard illusionist( maybe he will go for shadowcratfmage), a warmage( going for a rainbow savant), an archer druid(meh) and a rogue.

Now i don't want to play the Bard( i already play two bards in PFS and in 4e).

All 3.5 materials are allowed( Aldo dragon magazine).

I d like playing stealth char with a lot of magic.

So i was thinking to play a changeling (feat)rogue/psion egoist.
Or something with cloistered cleric( a debuffer cleric?)

Can you vive me salme advices?

[Chelios]

Bump.

I really nerd advices

[madtinker]

First, bumping a thread after less than two hours is unnecessary.

Second, in a party that large you're pretty much guaranteed to have some overlap with others' roles and/or abilities. So play whatever you want. Then do a forum/google search for a handbook on playing that thing, and you'll get lots of great info.

[Dorian Gray]

You could pull out a crusader and go full tank, or use some incarnum...

In fact, you could have a dwarven crusader/incarnate going towards ironsoul forgemaster, and never take any damage, and stun everyone with thicket of blades :smallbiggrin:

And now I will use that idea.

[Faily]

If you want to play a stealthy character with magic, there's Arcane Trickster in the Core, but it's so-so.

You could always do Cleric or Paladin/Crusader and go Ruby Knight Vindicator, and then Hide in Full Plate armor with no penalty, and use your Turning-attempts for all sorts of fun stuff.

And there's always pure Druid, with enough spells and wild-shaping to be as stealthy as they want. Druid is powerful enough to fill just about any party-role you ask them to do, and then the Animal Companion is an extra-body to throw into melee as well.

[Jack_Simth]

I need some advices for my PC.
In my group there are a warrior, a cleric( domain:destruction and protection), wizard illusionist( maybe he will go for shadowcratfmage), a warmage( going for a rainbow savant), an archer druid(meh) and a rogue.

Now i don't want to play the Bard( i already play two bards in PFS and in 4e).

All 3.5 materials are allowed( Aldo dragon magazine).

I d like playing stealth char with a lot of magic.

So i was thinking to play a changeling (feat)rogue/psion egoist.
Or something with cloistered cleric( a debuffer cleric?)

Can you vive me salme advices?

Let's see... one 'default melee', two Divine, a Batman, a blaster heading towards T-0, one skillmonkey.

Well, all the basic roles are covered... and then some. So really, play whatever you want. A stealth character with a lot of magic? The Beguiler (Player's Handbook II) fits the bill to a T. Tier-3. However: A Cloistered Cleric with the right domains (Trickery, most notably) could also fit the bill (Tier-1), as could a Druid with some feat work to get the right class skills (also Tier-1). So really, it's just a matter of a couple of questions:
1) How much 'power' do you want?
2) How much work are you willing to put into getting it?

[Werephilosopher]

For a bit of uniqueness, Dragonfire Adept is nice. You can protect all your teammates from your breath weapon, and you can sneak (or fly) around the battlefield burninating everything and laying down solid fog and stuff. It's a great crowd control/debuff class, I think.

[mgrinshpon]

I need some advices for my PC.
In my group there are a warrior, a cleric( domain:destruction and protection), wizard illusionist( maybe he will go for shadowcratfmage), a warmage( going for a rainbow savant), an archer druid(meh) and a rogue.

Now i don't want to play the Bard( i already play two bards in PFS and in 4e).

All 3.5 materials are allowed( Aldo dragon magazine).

I d like playing stealth char with a lot of magic.

Sounds to me like you're looking for a Beguiler!

http://dndtools.eu/classes/beguiler/

He's a great bard replacement and is on the same power level as what your party members have chosen, excepting the wizards, of course. The beguiler has all of the stealth you want and enough magic.

[Bloodgruve]

Maybe an Artificer. T1's in the group, you'd fit right in. Get an Item Familiar to offset the XP cost of item creation.

[Grayson01]

I was also going to suggest Dragonfire Adapt* as well as the Dragon Shaman, and Warlock*. You can get the stealth build pretty easy with any one of those base clases. The Two Invoker classes will give you the magic you want. Any one of those would be good choices and you can use them to support the other classes.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Spellthief 1/ Psion or Ardent* 4/ Psychic Assassin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d)** 6/ Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm) 9
*Ardent is preferred since you can get powers of the same level as a single-classed Ardent with Practiced Manifester, but only use it if you can use Substitute Powers (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a) to pick up some choice powers that aren't offered by any mantles.
**You'll want Mind Cripple for your Psychic Assassin special ability. Consider removing the death attack class feature in exchange for ignoring the special and alignment prerequisites.

With Spellthief you can freely use wands of any Wizard spells from schools that it gets access to, namely Wraithstrike. Put wand chambers from Dungeonscape in your weapons. With TWF and Mind Cripple you'll easily defeat most opponents in a single full attack. Your character may feel a bit weak until this comes online, but you can sneak attack with Crystal Shard and similar powers. Pick a Humanoid (Human) race so you can get Able Learner, and don't forget about the half-human and humanlike races sidebar on page 150 of RoD.

[Chelios]

Let's see... one 'default melee', two Divine, a Batman, a blaster heading towards T-0, one skillmonkey.

Well, all the basic roles are covered... and then some. So really, play whatever you want. A stealth character with a lot of magic? The Beguiler (Player's Handbook II) fits the bill to a T. Tier-3. However: A Cloistered Cleric with the right domains (Trickery, most notably) could also fit the bill (Tier-1), as could a Druid with some feat work to get the right class skills (also Tier-1). So really, it's just a matter of a couple of questions:
1) How much 'power' do you want?
2) How much work are you willing to put into getting it?

First of all thank you.

Now i'm thinking to a dragonfire adept or a dragon shaman. Also tjhe druid is col bit i don't know which feats work forma going stealthy.

[jiriku]

Darkstalker is pretty much a given, especially since there are so many powerful characters in your group. Some of the feats that let you wild shape as a move action or swift action would be useful, since you'll probably be using stealthy wild shape forms pretty extensively. Naturally you want ranks in Hide and Move Silently, so you'll want a feat to obtain those as class skills (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6832.0).

[Chelios]

I really like the idea of a rogue/dragonfire adept Changeling but i'm a tier 4, and in my group there are 3 tier 1.

Ok the druid has dex 16 and con 12, so i don't think he's going to be broken( he want to play an archer)
The wizard has only 17 int.
I think only warmage/rainbow savant can really shines in this group( he is the best player)

I played a lot of druids in my old campains, so now it's time to change. So i decide to go for rogue 1/dragonfire adept, some advices?

At frst level probably i'll take feat-rogue(changeling racial sobstitution) and then go on with dragonfire adept( maybe some levels in warshaper).

[jiriku]

Here is a very large handbook (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1101061). It has some suggestions and combos specifically for changeling dragonfire adepts.

[Chaosvii7]

You want to play somebody who's stealthy and has magic? I'm surprised that nobody's suggested Beguiler, who gets deceptive combat capabilities on top of full spellcasting. They can also backup as faces and skillmonkies if the need arises.

Link (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=363.0) if you're curious. I've never played one but I've seen them played pretty frequently. They're the paragons of Tier 3; Relatively balanced while still getting a wide range of versatility that isn't focused on just combat(read; 9 spell levels). Beguilers focus on being able to feint in combat to surprise their targets with their spells, which mostly focus on battlefield control, but every few levels they can add spells they otherwise wouldn't get access to to their spell list. If you're still feeling low on spell options, you can take Arcane Disciple; All you need is WIS 13+, which should be easy if you don't want a negative will save.

[Chelios]

Already played a Beguiler :)


So this is my build.

Changeling
Feat Rougue( racial substitution) 1/ DragonFire Adept X
32 points
I really haven't any idea how to put points
Feats:
1° Able Learner, Nymph's Kiss
(I can pik 2 flaws for 2 feats)
2° DragonTouched bonus
3° Power Surge
6° Entangling Exhalation

[Rebel7284]

While this is a fun build for now, how long will the game go for? Slowing and entangling is always useful, but eventually you may fall behind.

Two other skillmonkeys with magic you may want to consider:

Factotum: up to 7th level spells as spell like abilities, ability to add INT to everything, extra standard actions at level 8. ALL skills as class skills.

Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer X is almost a full caster on top of a rogue.

[Chelios]

While this is a fun build for now, how long will the game go for? Slowing and entangling is always useful, but eventually you may fall behind.

Two other skillmonkeys with magic you may want to consider:

Factotum: up to 7th level spells as spell like abilities, ability to add INT to everything, extra standard actions at level 8. ALL skills as class skills.

Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer X is almost a full caster on top of a rogue.

Untill lv 14.

But i think i can go:
DFA 1/ Feat Rogue 1/ DFA X
At 1° level.
Feats: Able Learner
Bonus: DragonTouched
Flaw 1: Power Surge
Falw 2: Entangling Exhalation

[Rebel7284]

Untill lv 14.

But i think i can go:
DFA 1/ Feat Rogue 1/ DFA X
At 1° level.
Feats: Able Learner
Bonus: DragonTouched
Flaw 1: Power Surge
Falw 2: Entangling Exhalation

You lose so many skill points this way though! 24 skill points!

What feats were you thinking of taking at levels 3/6/9/12?

[ArcaneGlyph]

I would go swordsage with that party.

[Chelios]

You lose so many skill points this way though! 24 skill points!

What feats were you thinking of taking at levels 3/6/9/12?

24 skill point or Entangling Exhalation at 1st level.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

24 skill point or Entangling Exhalation at 1st level.

Flaws must be taken when creating a character, so if you're creating a character higher than 1st level your flaws can be used to gain feats at 2nd+ level.

[Rebel7284]

Based on wanting to have EE at first level, I assume character will start at level 1. :)

How long do you expect the campaign to last? If it's up to levels 3-4, then perhaps EE at first level is worth it. However, if longer, I would certainly go with the extra skill points as those will work for your whole career.

[Chelios]

Flaws must be taken when creating a character, so if you're creating a character higher than 1st level your flaws can be used to gain feats at 2nd+ level.

I'm starting from 2nd level and probably we'll reach 14th level


Changeling FeatRogue 1/ DFA 1
STR 8 DEX 14 CON 18 INT 14 WIS 8 CHA 12
Feats: Able Learner, Nymph's Kiss
Flaw: non-combatant: Darkstalker

3th Entangling Exhalation and so on with power surge...
12X4 + 1 skills point at 1st level, 7 at 2nd

[Jack_Simth]

First of all thank you.

Now i'm thinking to a dragonfire adept or a dragon shaman. Also tjhe druid is col bit i don't know which feats work forma going stealthy.

Stealthy Druid-5/Ruthar-1 (Races of the Wild)/More Druid, Ruthar, or other PrC's-X:
Human:
HB: Able Learner (Races of Destiny)
1: Darkstalker (Lords of Madness)
3: Whatever.
6: Natural Spell
9: Whatever.
12: Whatever.
15: Whatever.
18: Whatever.

Able Learner gets rid of the cross-class rank penalty. Ruthar is a full-casting, easy-to-enter PrC that grants Hide and Move Silently as class skills (only three levels, though) to fix the level cap. Between the two of them, you can have full ranks in any skill that was ever a class skill for you.

Feel free to fill out the "Whatever" feat entries with... well, whatever you'd like. Metamagic? Sure. Dragon Wild Shape? Go for it. Stealthy/Skill Focus(Hide/Move Silently)? Sensible for your goal. Skill Focus(Speak Language): You're a full casting tier-1, it's not going to hurt you. Able Learner, Darkstalker, and a dip in Ruthar: As a Druid, maintain full casting, and everything else is gravy.