Baleful Enhancement (+3 Weapon Enhancement, Peach)

[gooddragon1]

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[jiriku]

Over-expensive for what it does. The save DC is highly abusable. Also, you're adding way more die rolls to combat than you need to. Honestly, for the cost of a +3 enhancement bonus, I'd expect it to just say "you can deliver precision damage (including critical hits and sneak attacks) to creatures that are normally immune to precision damage. Additionally, your attack deals +1d6 damage." Also, it would be helpful to clarify if certain effects and conditions can negate the benefit. For example, maybe it doesn't work against armor with the fortification enchantment, or doesn't work against swarms.

[gooddragon1]

Over-expensive for what it does. The save DC is highly abusable. Also, you're adding way more die rolls to combat than you need to. Honestly, for the cost of a +3 enhancement bonus, I'd expect it to just say "you can deliver precision damage (including critical hits and sneak attacks) to creatures that are normally immune to precision damage. Additionally, your attack deals +1d6 damage." Also, it would be helpful to clarify if certain effects and conditions can negate the benefit. For example, maybe it doesn't work against armor with the fortification enchantment, or doesn't work against swarms.

Wait, it's not all that bad man...

The DC has a cap of your HD for CL and 1/2 your HD for enhancement bonus. That's 30 by 20. It's good if you get a DC 45 and 40 UMD check (which requires you to build towards that partially) but it's not out of line considering what other things you could be doing with a DC 30+ save or die/lose instead (and if you build towards save or dies as a caster you probably get higher save DC's).

As it is now: nothing negates the benefit except a saving throw, antimagic field, or immunity to transmutation/polymorph effects (lich for example).

However, I'll include swarms because that makes sense with the effect.

It allows a rogue to sneak attack without flanking if the enemy fails a save for each attack. That's useful in lots of cases. It also allows a rogue to sneak attack at very long range (good for sniping). Now, while it isn't as guaranteed against an undead as a greater truedeath crystal might be it is capable of allowing sneak attacks against an elemental (I know of no enhancement crystal that does that).

EDIT: Interesting thing I didn't note, it's good against most undead and constructs anyways because they have bad fortitude saves. Considering bumping the enhancement bonus by 1 actually because of that. Or maybe giving them a bonus on the save.

[jiriku]

Sorry, I didn't mean to seem like I was down on the idea. I'm grumpy without my coffee. :smallfrown:

Really what I was trying (and failing) to get across was "I'm not so sure about this method for figuring the save DC, but frankly why not just have it always work?"

As you no doubt already figured out, immunity to precision damage is actually a really bad thing in this game, because it shuts down several weak classes that need precision damage to be effective, and because it's fun for players to score critical hits on monsters, and taking away that fun with crit immunity is a bad idea (especially since if the DM wants the monster to soak another 10% damage or so, it's trivial to increase the monster's hit points).

So your enchantment is (imo) a fix for a part of the game that's broken, rather than just a cool thing for rogues. As such, it should be reliable and cheap. A +3 equivalent enchantment is hella expensive. For that price, the effect should always work. Heck, for that price it should cook, wash dishes, do your laundry and wash your car. And make me some coffee.

[ddude987]

I think this enhancement, as written, doesn't work on undead. Undead don't make fort saves unless the effect affects objects

Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).

While you have written

In the case of objects this weak spot only allows an extra 1d6 of damage and the object may or may not be allowed a saving throw.

Perhaps a clause, stating that creatures always make a fort save regardless of immunity. Also, I think a cool idea would be it always does the extra +1d6 but against targets that fail their save it cripples them in some way, like half move speed or a stacking bleed that does damage over time.

[gooddragon1]

Sorry, I didn't mean to seem like I was down on the idea. I'm grumpy without my coffee. :smallfrown:

Really what I was trying (and failing) to get across was "I'm not so sure about this method for figuring the save DC, but frankly why not just have it always work?"

As you no doubt already figured out, immunity to precision damage is actually a really bad thing in this game, because it shuts down several weak classes that need precision damage to be effective, and because it's fun for players to score critical hits on monsters, and taking away that fun with crit immunity is a bad idea (especially since if the DM wants the monster to soak another 10% damage or so, it's trivial to increase the monster's hit points).

So your enchantment is (imo) a fix for a part of the game that's broken, rather than just a cool thing for rogues. As such, it should be reliable and cheap. A +3 equivalent enchantment is hella expensive. For that price, the effect should always work. Heck, for that price it should cook, wash dishes, do your laundry and wash your car. And make me some coffee.

In that case I won't bump the undead and construct save. This then makes it more effective against those creatures.

In addition, I'll make the 1d6 guaranteed and against living creatures throw in a bonus of some kind. I'm thinking fatigue for 1 round (basically this would be caused by the unusual trauma and shock such an attack creates).

EDIT: Not only is the 1d6 guaranteed... it goes through DR and hardness. Means you'll pretty much always get in some damage if your attack connects.

[Debihuman]

Way too many ifs in the description. Effects should be stated clearly. What kind of energy? Is it magical? Some creatures are immune to magic.


The baleful enhancement was discovered through a logical application of magical theory. Umm why does this matter?

If the item causes a weak spot, there should be a saving throw to avoid this effect.


Against most enemies this merely means that if they fail a fortitude save DC 10 + 1/2 caster level of wielder (rounded down)+ Intelligence modifier of wielder OR DC 20 (whichever is higher) they are fatigued for 1 round. Even on a successful save the target receives an extra 1d6 points of damage which is not subject to damage reduction or hardness.

Is this before or after the attack? What constitutes most enemies? Why do I want to roll for a save vs. Fatigue BEFORE I know if the weapon hits? If it is after why should there be a save and why shouldn't it just cause my enemies to be fatigued for one round? This takes the fun out of hitting.


Even on a successful save the target receives an extra 1d6 points of damage which is not subject to damage reduction or hardness.

1 round of fatigue (with save), 1d6 extra damage, allows a critical hit on creatures normally immune and sneak attack (with save), Note it allows you make a UMD check (which you cannot do while engaged IN combat). Not a big fan of this so far.


Another boon of this enhancement is that it can allow use magic device checks in substitution of caster level and/or intelligence modifier of the wielder for the purpose of determining the saving throw DC to resist the effect. Such use magic device checks are made before or during the first attack made by the weapon in a given combat and those results are used for the remainder of that combat. The caster level emulated from the use magic device check cannot exceed the total hit dice of the wielder. The intelligence modifier emulated from the use magic device check cannot exceed half the total hit dice of the wielder (rounded down, minimum +1). The weak spot generated by this enhancement lasts only long enough for the strike that initiated it. Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the transmutative energy upon their ammunition.

What are you substituting in place of CL and int modifier exactly? If it is 1/2 wielder's HD then you need to state it clearly. When is it before and when is during? Exactly how do you make a UMD check while swinging a blade? And please note that UMD cannot be used untrained.

Now you are looking at a minor artifact as it just does far too much for a weapon enhancement. What is the Intelligence modifier emulated from the weapon? Is this now an intelligent weapon?

That weak spot is just nonsense. Unless the weapon causes damage, why should it magically cause a vulnerable area to appear. When does the target become aware of this sudden vulnerability? Does he or she get a save to avoid it since it is a magical effect and not from any damage?

How long does it take the weapon (and the wielder) to do all these things? There is such a thing as economy of action and this weapon seems to break a lot of them. Not a fan of that either.

What happens if you miss?

Debby

[ddude987]

Not only is the 1d6 guaranteed... it goes through DR and hardness. Means you'll pretty much always get in some damage if your attack connects.

Does the damage have a type or is it untyped?

[gooddragon1]

Way too many ifs in the description. Effects should be stated clearly. What kind of energy? Is it magical? Some creatures are immune to magic.

Umm why does this matter?

If the item causes a weak spot, there should be a saving throw to avoid this effect.



Is this before or after the attack? What constitutes most enemies? Why do I want to roll for a save vs. Fatigue BEFORE I know if the weapon hits? If it is after why should there be a save and why shouldn't it just cause my enemies to be fatigued for one round? This takes the fun out of hitting.



1 round of fatigue (with save), 1d6 extra damage, allows a critical hit on creatures normally immune and sneak attack (with save), Note it allows you make a UMD check (which you cannot do while engaged IN combat). Not a big fan of this so far.



What are you substituting in place of CL and int modifier exactly? If it is 1/2 wielder's HD then you need to state it clearly. When is it before and when is during? Exactly how do you make a UMD check while swinging a blade? And please note that UMD cannot be used untrained.

Now you are looking at a minor artifact as it just does far too much for a weapon enhancement. What is the Intelligence modifier emulated from the weapon? Is this now an intelligent weapon?

That weak spot is just nonsense. Unless the weapon causes damage, why should it magically cause a vulnerable area to appear. When does the target become aware of this sudden vulnerability? Does he or she get a save to avoid it since it is a magical effect and not from any damage?

How long does it take the weapon (and the wielder) to do all these things? There is such a thing as economy of action and this weapon seems to break a lot of them. Not a fan of that either.

What happens if you miss?

Debby

Transmutation energy


Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the transmutative energy upon their ammunition.

It is magical and magic immune creatures are immune (this is rolled under the example of adamantine golem and clarified in that an iron golem could not resist it because it doesn't allow spell resistance but I'll expand on that in the description)

Why it matters: Flavor text.

There is a saving throw to partially negate the effect (the damage still gets through).

Will clarify on some of the ordering. Flavor text. Fatigues them for 2 rounds.

Changing it to at the start of combat you make a UMD check for one or both and not during an attack. Once per day. See below or original entry.


Emulate a Class Feature

Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20. This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature. If the class whose feature you are emulating has an alignment requirement, you must meet it, either honestly or by emulating an appropriate alignment with a separate Use Magic Device check (see above).


Emulate an Ability Score

To cast a spell from a scroll, you need a high score in the appropriate ability (Intelligence for wizard spells, Wisdom for divine spells, or Charisma for sorcerer or bard spells). Your effective ability score (appropriate to the class you’re emulating when you try to cast the spell from the scroll) is your Use Magic Device check result minus 15. If you already have a high enough score in the appropriate ability, you don’t need to make this check.

You make the check before.

Yes, you must have ranks in UMD to bolster the save or it sticks at 20 (not the end of the world, but the people who rely on sneak attacks or such things might be willing to put ranks in it).

No it is not a minor artifact. It is the combination of what a staff does and a fraction of the potential of a polymorph any object spell (limited effect and verrry small duration). There are weapons that force saves vs Die/lose. This fixes a class feature while allowing enemies to resist. 1d6, fatigue 2 rounds, allow certain class features to work. Greater Truedeath crystal (allow sneak attacks, ghost touch, and +1d6 vs undead) and you can stick that on a weapon. This is an extrapolation of that in a way but with differing effects and a much greater cost in a way to balance it out.

It transmutes the area (polymorph any object with a limited function) to be weaker than normal. Warforged can be critted, iron golems are vulnerable to adamantine weapons, so on and so forth. Yes it does allow a save. Yes you have to hit.

If you miss it has no effect for that attack. If it hits it does the following things: 1d6 damage extra. Fortitude save or be fatigued and if your attack would crit or you have sneak attack damage or both then you apply those. Quite simple.

You roll your UMD's once at the beginning of the combat on your turn. Not every attack.

The UMD's are made once per day. The results cannot be changed for the rest of the day.

Will post simple version of the text here and above:
>Roll UMD's if desired at some point during the day (one for CL and 1 for attribute).
>If an attack hits deal 1d6 damage untyped no DR no hardness
>If an attack hits enemy makes a saving throw (DC 20 or using your UMD'd or natural stats)
>If saving throw not successful enemy fatigued for 2 rounds
>If saving throw not successful and you would crit or you have sneak attack damage then apply as appropriate.

It's a lot of words but it's not a lot of effects. 1d6, fatigue, crits/Sneak Attacks