Gestalt Campaign

[m149307]

Ok, so I am going to be playing in a level 10 Gestalt campaign...but I don't know which classes to combine. I was thinking Warlock along with something else, but idk what works well with warlock. Any suggestions guys?

[georgie_leech]

It really depends on what you want to do. You're correct that Warlock makes a decent Gestalt class, but depending on which choices you make, it ends up pairing well with different classes. In general, for gestalt builds you want an "active" side, which gives you the various tools and abilities you spend your actions on, and a "passive" side, that provides all sorts of ancillary bonuses that don't need to be turned on, or at least can be done so well in advance. Warlock can fill either side, depending on whether you choose damaging or spammable invocations, or the long-term invocations like Fell Flight.

[m149307]

Which suits the Warlock better, being the passive or active side?

[georgie_leech]

Which suits the Warlock better, being the passive or active side?

That's the thing, I've seen it used both as the active side as well as the passive side. I'm personally more fond of using it as an enhancement passive, because I love how many gaps in class capabilities it plugs for things like, say, Barbarians or Monks, but it can be done either way, from what I've seen.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Enlightened Spirit in CM is amazing on a gestalt Warlock. Everything it grants is either a bonus or a specific ability, nothing it does actually advances your normal Warlock abilities so everything stacks when taking Warlock//Enlightened Spirit.

For what to take prior to qualifying for that, I'll always suggest Wildshape Mystic Ranger 5/ Enlightened Spirit 10/ Wildshape Mystic Ranger 5// Warlock 20, with Magical Training and Sword of the Arcane Order. Mystic Ranger is from Dragon 336, if you're not able to use that then consider replacing it with Incarnate and/or Binder and/or a ToB class. Definitely include a Binder dip for Naberius if you plan to pick up Hellfire Warlock, but I would max out Enlightened Spirit first.

You should also consider taking some level adjustment if you can make it take one side of the gestalt. Half-Giant with Primordial Giant in SoX is only a +1 LA, and you can even take the racial class from Complete Psionic p148 to gain the +1 LA at 2nd level and still get the +1 BAB from Warlock with it, and use a +1 BAB class at 1st level such as Fast Movement Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger). Another good choice is Phrenic Creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/phrenicCreature.htm), though it cannot be added to Half-Giant unless you can use a nonpsionic version of the base creature.

Note that Enlightened Spirit gets a Greater shape invocation at its 5th level, when you would take Warlock 10. A Warlock normally doesn't get greater invocations until 11th level, so this allows you to select a Greater invocation at Warlock 10. So instead of three least, three lesser, three greater, and three dark invocations from Warlock at 20th, you'll have three least, two lesser, four greater, and three dark. Since you would normally have to spend a lesser invocation on Fell Flight but Enlightened Spirit gives you an amazing replacement for that, you end up with a net gain of a greater invocation.

[m149307]

Enlightened Spirit in CM is amazing on a gestalt Warlock. Everything it grants is either a bonus or a specific ability, nothing it does actually advances your normal Warlock abilities so everything stacks when taking Warlock//Enlightened Spirit.

For what to take prior to qualifying for that, I'll always suggest Wildshape Mystic Ranger 5/ Enlightened Spirit 10/ Wildshape Mystic Ranger 5// Warlock 20, with Magical Training and Sword of the Arcane Order. Mystic Ranger is from Dragon 336, if you're not able to use that then consider replacing it with Incarnate and/or Binder and/or a ToB class. Definitely include a Binder dip for Naberius if you plan to pick up Hellfire Warlock, but I would max out Enlightened Spirit first.

You should also consider taking some level adjustment if you can make it take one side of the gestalt. Half-Giant with Primordial Giant in SoX is only a +1 LA, and you can even take the racial class from Complete Psionic p148 to gain the +1 LA at 2nd level and still get the +1 BAB from Warlock with it, and use a +1 BAB class at 1st level such as Fast Movement Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger). Another good choice is Phrenic Creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/phrenicCreature.htm), though it cannot be added to Half-Giant unless you can use a nonpsionic version of the base creature.

Note that Enlightened Spirit gets a Greater shape invocation at its 5th level, when you would take Warlock 10. A Warlock normally doesn't get greater invocations until 11th level, so this allows you to select a Greater invocation at Warlock 10. So instead of three least, three lesser, three greater, and three dark invocations from Warlock at 20th, you'll have three least, two lesser, four greater, and three dark. Since you would normally have to spend a lesser invocation on Fell Flight but Enlightened Spirit gives you an amazing replacement for that, you end up with a net gain of a greater invocation.

Sorry man, but that seems like a lot of work. I was hoping for something simple but very effective, if possible.

[m149307]

Would it be possible to do like Warlock 10, then something else with say natural attacks (or maybe a rogue with sneak attack) that I can add the eldritch energy to, as well as different invocations (like Fell Flight to fly, and other stuff).

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Sorry man, but that seems like a lot of work. I was hoping for something simple but very effective, if possible.

Plan to go Warlock 20// Anything 5/ Enlightened Spirit 10/ Anything 5
Look at all the invocations you get from Enlightened Spirit first, then decide which Warlock invocations to pick. You get three least, two lesser, and one greater invocation from Warlock at 10th level. Nothing simpler than that.

Consider making a Gnome, and plan to go Warlock 20// Fast Movement Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) 1/ Half-Fey (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) LA +2/ Binder 2/ Enlightened Spirit 10/ Binder 5. At any given character level, look at whether either of your two class levels gives a higher HD, higher base skill points, and if either gives a +0, +1, or +2 for BAB, Fort, Reflex, and Will, and use the value from whichever class has a higher number for each individual bonus. You can use the BAB, HD, base skills, Fort, and Reflex of Ranger 1 and the Will save bonus of Warlock 1.


Would it be possible to do like Warlock 10, then something else with say natural attacks (or maybe a rogue with sneak attack) that I can add the eldritch energy to, as well as different invocations (like Fell Flight to fly, and other stuff).

You cannot add Eldritch Blast to natural attacks, but there's a feat called Eldritch Claws (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Eldritch_Claws) that does something like that. You could use Totemist to gain even more natural attacks. I'd plan to go Warlock 20// Totemist 5/ Enlightened Spirit 10/ Totemist 5, with something like Warforged for the natural slam attack and you can spend a feat on Jaws of Death to get a bite attack. You can even make a Dragonborn Warforged (and keep the living construct subtype and all its benefits) and spend a feat on Dragon Tail for yet another natural attack.

[DMVerdandi]

Well, due to the way warlock works, I would definitely go for a caster. Lets run down a few flavors.

Beguiler-
The deciever
This is that shadowy caster that uses his eldritch powers to tempt and entangle the wills of others. Play wise, it adds some versatility and punch to the usually behind the scenes beguiler.

Cleric-
The Cultist
Using cleric with this gives you a Little more dark power, some better options for crafting things to support being a cleric, and some stability past the spell slots. Best used with an inflict leaning cleric.

Dread Necromancer-
The deadite
With this, your powers focus on necromantic powers, controlling the dead, and other creepy things. Evocations would be used to add an even longer play period.

Druid-
Sidhe
This has that enchanting, fae-like allure. You have your Invocations there and eldritch blast to show some of that all day power that the fae have, as well as being able to turn into creatures of the wild and to directly mainline divine power from nature.

Wizard-
Illuminati initiate
By understanding occult mysteries and sealed hidden knowledge, you gain the power to control the world. This can be expressed in very different schools of thought and magic, with each specialist focusing on one part of the world of the arcane, or generalists looking to find a monist understanding of it all. You hold knowledge of the world that others can only dream of, or have nightmares about.

The Warlock part of this gives all of it's benefits, but that means that the wizard half is not so stressed about having spells in slots, doesn't have to concern itself with a lot of utilities, always has the EB to fall back on, and gets SIGNIFICANT boosts in crafting and using magic items.

Archivist is the divine alternative to this blend, but functions similarly.

[m149307]

Ok, I think I am gonna go Duskblade/Warlock (since my DM allowed me to channel the eldritch energy as well.) So how should I do this? Increase my Duskblade's ability to channel along with the eldritch energy abilities?

[One Step Two]

Something a little more mundane, but still effective, is Warlock//Rogue.
Plenty of skills, and evasion, plus you can apply Sneak attacks to your eldritch blasts, and you always have somewhere to hide, because you can spam darkness as an invocation, and grab a collar of umbral metamorphasis just to be sure :smallbiggrin:.
Also, evocations like baleful utterance are handy for breaking any locks or traps you find, if you havent the time or need to be quiet about it.

[m149307]

I was thinking of that as well, since i like Rogue, but my DM said it will be a high powered campaign, so I need more power than hiding I think.

[shadowseve]

I was thinking of that as well, since i like Rogue, but my DM said it will be a high powered campaign, so I need more power than hiding I think.

There is more to rogues than simply hiding. However; if you're looking for a rogue type character try either factotum or swordsage. Both are great classes and tob works great with a lot of gestalt builds.

I'll second the warlock//binder/Enlightened Spirit. It's a great combo and should provide plenty of power. If the dm will allow dragon magazine I would suggest maybe go with an eldritch claw.

This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?252715-The-New-Warlock-Handbook-3-5-WIP) is a great handbook to give you some good ideas on playing a warlock.

[DMVerdandi]

Ok, I think I am gonna go Duskblade/Warlock (since my DM allowed me to channel the eldritch energy as well.) So how should I do this? Increase my Duskblade's ability to channel along with the eldritch energy abilities?

Don't forget that you are going to need eldritch glaive or eldritch claws for that to work.

[m149307]

Planning on doing Eldritch Claws. So far my damage is around 60d6 that I can do once per day. (The Eldritch part will be maximized.)

[DeAnno]

I was thinking of that as well, since i like Rogue, but my DM said it will be a high powered campaign, so I need more power than hiding I think.

Mundane hide checks are actually really dangerous when combined with Hide in Plain Sight. The only real defense is Spot.

[Someonelse]

I'm a big fan of gestalting with the racial classes from Savage Species. One of my favorites is the Ghaele or Astral Deva Sorcerer since they both have good charisma. For that matter either of those classes would go well with Warlock. I've always felt that Ogre Mage went well with Warlock from a flavor perspective, add in some half dragon just for fun. I've always wanted to make a stone giant bard who juggles huge rocks, then gets in a fight and start throwing them, then take levels in Master Thrower. Succubus (or incubus if you're a dude) goes great with Warlock both from an optimization and a flavor point of view.

Some other favorites (either for optimization or flavor): Air or Earth Elemental Monk. Drider Ninja. Mind Flayer Psion. Ogre Mage Warlock or Sorcerer. Pixie Rogue. Satyr Bard. Shadow Rogue, Ninja or Monk. Troll Barbarian or Fighter.