PF Feudal Japan Campaign?

[malonkey1]

I'm going to be running a campaign inspired by Feudal Japan, and Japanese mythology in general, and I wanted to know what sorts of classes, archetypes and races would be thematically appropriate? I intend to limit the choices available so as not to break the theme (removing Paladins, for example, as well as Dwarves and Elves). I'll be listing things suggested (and anything I find myself) here.


Humans (Because they're effing everywhere)
Orcs (fluffed as a variety of Oni)
Kitsune (duh)
Tengu (also duh)
Goblin



Barbarian (may need archetyping, not sure)
Bard (probably with Court Bard, Geisha, or Lotus Geisha Archetype(s))
Cleric (probably with required variant channeling (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/variant-channeling), probably then called priests)
Druid (not called a Druid, though)
Fighter
Monk (Obviously)
EDIT: Ninja (Should have thought of it from the start)
Ranger
Rogue
Samurai
Sorcerer (Funny thing, dragon-blooded sorcerers are considered nobility)

[grarrrg]

How did you miss Ninja?

[Slithery D]

If it were a China campaign alchemist would be obvious, but I'm not sure Japan had a similar tradition the deranged Tsaoist alchemist.

[malonkey1]

How did you miss Ninja?

Oh, duh, of course.

[Tohsaka Rin]

Why Cleric, but not Paladin?

Pretty sure Japanese people had Gods in the feudal era...

[Faily]

Gotta second the "why no Paladin" question as well.

Paladin works very well for a feudal system, and can be refluffed as elite warriors rather holy warriors. Or can work well as very devout and spiritual warriors (like various sorts of sohei, or even historical figures said to have been very spiritually-aligned, such as Uesugi Kenshin who was believed to be blessed by the God of war and to be that god's avatar on earth).

If it's the Smite Evil that's the problem, then there's also alot of issues with all alignment-based spells (Protection from Evil, Holy Smite, Holy Word, etc). It could be reworked into Smite Dishonorable, or just a plain Smite, which could be like a "I shall duel you single-handedly"-bonus.

[Honest Tiefling]

Make the paladin so darn devoted to either a local spirit, or to their lord they become magical and awesome. Heck, they could also be refluffed as temple guardians. As for druid, rename shaman and it's a person appeasing local spirits, while the cleric focuses more on the gods? I admit my knowledge of Shinto is pretty non-existent. Or, the clerics are more Buddhist, the druids more Shinto.

As for Turn Undead, doesn't japanese mythology have undead spirits you need a priest to get rid of? Or would those evil spirits not count as undead?

[BWR]

The paladin was traditionally devoted to a lord. The Complete Paladin's Handbook notes this quite clearly. There is nothing wrong with having the paladin get his powers from loyalty to his lord and HONOR instead of an external source.

[Killer Angel]

If I'm not wrong, the Jade Regent adventure path, tends exactly toward that kind of setting. Maybe you can find something interesting in it.

[BWR]

You might also be interested in the Kaidan (http://www.ritepublishing.com/kaidan.html)setting for Pathfinder. Mostly based on monsters and ghosts and Japanese horror, but there should be a wealth of material to take from.

[Ravens_cry]

For more fluff and information (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/582/Bushido?it=1) for a semi-realistic take, there is the Bushido RPG from the earliy-80's, late 70's.

[Prime32]

Make the paladin so darn devoted to either a local spirit, or to their lord they become magical and awesome. Heck, they could also be refluffed as temple guardians. As for druid, rename shaman and it's a person appeasing local spirits, while the cleric focuses more on the gods? I admit my knowledge of Shinto is pretty non-existent. Or, the clerics are more Buddhist, the druids more Shinto.

As for Turn Undead, doesn't japanese mythology have undead spirits you need a priest to get rid of? Or would those evil spirits not count as undead?Yeah, in 4e terms Buddhism would be Divine, Shinto would be Primal, and Onmyodo would be Arcane. In pop cultural depictions at least, Buddhists get more abilities based on good overcoming evil, and can dismiss nearby evil spirits by chanting. Shinto focuses more on the distinction between mortals and supernatural creatures, and is better at healing and defensive spells. And onmyoji are government-sponsored wizards.

I could go into more detail, but frankly I have no idea how and where the board rules apply here. I'd gladly discuss it off-site.

EDIT: In terms of pre-existing material there's also Kitsunemori (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/20740/Kitsunemori-Campaign-Setting).

[Faily]

There's always Legend of the Five Rings too for a Samurai-setting.

Is it going to be actual feudal Japan (with timeline, people, and setting), or a fantasy-mix of it? In case of the latter, you could either just adopt the Jade Regent-setting. Or if you want a really rich setting, you could tweak the Legend of Five Rings setting.

[malonkey1]

The idea is that it's something of an alternate history, but there's no single point where it diverges. The idea is that while much of history, geography and culture is similar, place names and people are very different.

[Faily]

I see. Personally, I'd do it like this when it comes to classes then:

Available for samurai/Japanese:
Bard - reserved for artisans and geisha.
Cleric - rename them Shugenja (priests). Japanese religion is a mix-mash of Shinto and Buddhism, but with its own specific sects as well within those lines, so you could base Domains out of which sort of philosophy you're dealing with.
Fighter - This is the class I'd use for self-taught warriors, ronin or ashigaru troops. (Example: Musashi)
Monk - rather self-explanatory, but perhaps align different archtypes with different temples and philosophies, like with Cleric.
Paladin - Elite warriors, either dedicated as honor guard to a lord, blessed warriors, or sacred defenders of a holy site. Imperial guard is always Paladin. (Example: Uesugi Kenshin)
Ninja & Rogue- works as is. Both are more or less the same and fill the same role, imho. :smallwink: (Example: Hattori Hanzo)
Oracle - Mystics who are not priests, but could be touched by the divine some way. (Example: Empress Himiko)
Samurai - The class for all warrior-nobles.
Sorcerer - Rare, indicating lineage to a mystical being, such as dragon, kitsune, oni, tanuki, tengu, etc.
Wizard - Onmyoji basically. Court wizards who study ancient tomes of magic from foreign lands. (Example: the Onmyoji in Neil Gaimain's Dream Hunters)


And special list for the Ainu in Hokkaido/Ezo
Barbarian - Uncultivated warrior of the savage Ainu (in the eyes of the Japanese).
Druid - Shaman of the Ainu, communes with the spirits.
Ranger - Warrior of the Ainu, blessed by the spirits of nature.

[Gildedragon]

Swordsages are a damn handy addition

War of the Lance craftsman class, to get items of legend etc.

Intelligent or magical items might be quite 'common' in that with enough time they can spontaneously animate or gain properties

Eberron's spirit binding for magic weapons might be a good idea

Binder is not a bad choice either: refluff the vestiges as divine aspects or local spirits, and making deals with them can fit within the cosmology

similar sorta fluff for meldshapers.

[Prime32]

Cleric - rename them Shugenja (priests). Japanese religion is a mix-mash of Shinto and Buddhism, but with its own specific sects as well within those lines, so you could base Domains out of which sort of philosophy you're dealing with.That is not what shugenja means. :smallconfused: The closest thing in D&D to a shugenja that I can think of is the Haztaratain PrC from Secrets of Sarlona. PF-wise there's the Mountain Druid archetype I guess.

Speaking of mountaineers, I figure senjutsu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sennin) would be psionics (including the option to become an elan).

[deuxhero]

Ban Samurai to reinforce it being a caste, of which the members overwhelming have levels in Aristocrat.

[Red Fel]

I agree with those who have said "don't ban X class, just refluff," because - and this is something I really have to credit Pathfinder with - very little of it is culturally-specific. In 3.5, if you wanted flavor, you got an expansion - Stormwrack for aquatic, Sandstorm for desert, Frostburn for arctic, OA (and ToB, somewhat) for Asian-theme. Pathfinder did a good job of pointing out that, yeah, pretty much anything in core can be applied to pretty much any theme. Why ignore that flexibility?

Instead, I'd like to look at your race choices. I could make a joke about leaving catgirls out of a Japanese-themed setting, but that's too easy. Instead, I'd like to look at other choices.

Powerful forest spirits have often been part of Japanese mythological culture. (See e.g. Kitsune.) And yet, you're omitting Elves? The practice of using unsavory types to perform acts of espionage and assassination is well-documented - but no Ratfolk? (Call them Nezumi, it works.)

Even OA had a race of dwarves; it's not hard to visualize an entire caste of diminuitive smiths and craftsmen. Indeed, the practice and art of swordsmithing is a unique and elevated position; even today, a handful of Japan's "living national treasures" practice the old ways of folding steel. Why not have a dwarf do it? OA also had "spirit folk," representing the trees, the rivers, and so forth - what's the difference between "spirit folk" and Oreads, Sylphs and Undines? (Come up with a name, like Tsuki-zoku, it's not hard to do.)

I am frankly shocked that, despite willing to allow Orcs as Oni, you're unwilling to allow Tieflings. Merfolk exist in Japanese mythology (admittedly, usually as man-eating horrors, if I recall), and you could easily refluff the Grippli to be more like Kappa. Finally, given Japan's historic fascination with the character of Sun Wukong (Sun Goku in Japan), why not have Vanara? (Again, see OA.) Aside: Third parties have created Hengeyokai (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/3rd-party-races/rite-publishing/hengeyokai) and Kappa (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/3rd-party-races/rite-publishing/kappa) races. Mileage, vary.

If your goal is to limit your players' options in order to create a more cohesive, smaller world, that's one thing; but if your goal is flavor, you're missing out on some savory seasonings.

As an aside: If Pathfinder had a rabbit-folk race, I would create ask for help creating an Usagi Yojimbo build in a heartbeat.

[malonkey1]

I'm loking both for flavor and for a cohesive world. I can see the case for not banning classes, and my list of races so far was not exhaustive, just being what came to mind at the time. I'm not sure if I quite like Tieflings for this, but I can see it, especially if I can limit the fiends they descend from (e.g. Oni-Spawn would be very thematically appropriate). That said, I don't think that I want to many near-human races like Elves and Dwarves, at least on this continent, seeing as it's supposed to be somewhat of an Alt-Earth. If I want to have forest spirits, they'll be fey creatures, not player races. And guys, thanks.

[Sian]

argee with the red thread that appears to go though Red Fel's post ... go glance at Oriental Adventures and lean on that, using it as a guideline for which classes that should stay around in what senses, and which ones you'd have to convert from 3.0 (as OA is as such) / 3.5 (for those upgraded in the Complete series) or replace with similar classes in PF (sorry but haven't enough experience to take a call on that), and which classes that should be refluffed and/or restricted. Its not a perfect fit, but its certainly better than starting out from vanilla (whatever flavour of vanilla your into)