Need a druid to fill in...

[Starchild7309]

Ok so I am running a campaign where two of my players have habitually not shown up...I mean for like more than 3/4 of the sessions. I was ok with that at first because I understand r/l is unruly, but its gotten out of hand, so instead of letting other players run their characters while they are not there(as I have been doing), I removed them from the game, however now the party has gone from 5 to 3 players. I don't want to have to scale down everything so I will just run a NPC to assist them.

Now I know this seems like having the same situation only with me running the PC, but the issue comes in with the non combat part of the game where the two players running the "ghost" PCs suddenly have more influence so I am nipping that in the bud. All that aside, I talked to my players and they would like a "druid like character" to join them.
I am usually the all or nothing type when it comes to building characters and druids are pretty powerful. I just need some ideas on how to make him viable but not outshine the PCs.

He is going to be 10th level and non good running in the forgotten realms. All core and regular books are available, just no dragon mag or 3rd party. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Like I said I either end up making optimized characters or junk....so help me please.

[eternal]

Ok so I am running a campaign where two of my players have habitually not shown up...I mean for like more than 3/4 of the sessions. I was ok with that at first because I understand r/l is unruly, but its gotten out of hand, so instead of letting other players run their characters while they are not there(as I have been doing), I removed them from the game, however now the party has gone from 5 to 3 players. I don't want to have to scale down everything so I will just run a NPC to assist them.

Now I know this seems like having the same situation only with me running the PC, but the issue comes in with the non combat part of the game where the two players running the "ghost" PCs suddenly have more influence so I am nipping that in the bud. All that aside, I talked to my players and they would like a "druid like character" to join them.
I am usually the all or nothing type when it comes to building characters and druids are pretty powerful. I just need some ideas on how to make him viable but not outshine the PCs.

He is going to be 10th level and non good running in the forgotten realms. All core and regular books are available, just no dragon mag or 3rd party. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Like I said I either end up making optimized characters or junk....so help me please.

druids are actually pretty hard to mess up so unless you're just that bad at optimization your druid will not suck. They're naturally good at just about everything.

You'll want to avoid planar shepherd, assume super natural ability, aberration wild shape, and some of the more potent things a druid can do.

the easiest thing to do is take natural spell at level six and prosper. Just be mindful of the shapes you turn into and the spells you cast and you should be fine.

[eggynack]

Druids are great at a lot of things, but not outshining folks might not be one of them. You're hitting the levels where your best spell options are things like control winds, call avalanche, animal growth, and blizzard, spells that completely dominate the battlefield, and where your best feat options are things like aberration wild shape and maybe rashemi elemental summoning (maybe, because secretly aberration wild shape is always the best feat option). Druids don't do a massive amount of party friendly things, is what I'm saying. I mean, they do some, but it's not their strong suit.

I think the question that must be asked is what your intended role here is, and what specific goal you're trying to accomplish by adding a DM controlled character. If you know what you're trying to do, then druids can do that thing, because druids can do all things, and if your goal is to just fill up space in the party with a legion of creatures and power, then druid is likely the man for the job, but that knowledge is a critical step.

[eternal]

(maybe, because secretly aberration wild shape is always the best feat option)

Not to derail the thread but now that I'm using the forms you suggested in your book I kinda feel un-druid like using those forms. They're great from a power perspective... But I dunno I can't put my finger on it. I guess I just don't naturally associate druids with elder brains and beholders. That make any sense?

Any rate sorry for thread derail. Just a random thought. I can be add like that. :smallbiggrin:

[eggynack]

Not to derail the thread but now that I'm using the forms you suggested in your book I kinda feel un-druid like using those forms. They're great from a power perspective... But I dunno I can't put my finger on it. I guess I just don't naturally associate druids with elder brains and beholders. That make any sense?

I suppose, though by this point, I tend to just associate that element of druids with transformation, rather than some specifically natural form of transformation. It helps that many of the forms read as extensions of what a druid is otherwise doing, like natural weapons, spell casting, and vision modes. It's admittedly not the sort of thing that I think about all that much, however.

[eternal]

I suppose, though by this point, I tend to just associate that element of druids with transformation, rather than some specifically natural form of transformation. It helps that many of the forms read as extensions of what a druid is otherwise doing, like natural weapons, spell casting, and vision modes. It's admittedly not the sort of thing that I think about all that much, however.
I can see that. Though with me it's a bit of the pot calling the kettle black since I'm a planar shepherd.:smallbiggrin: One can say that a druid would think the "planes" as being unnatural. All a matter of perspective eh?

[Flickerdart]

I would recommend not actually using a druid, since they're really good at overshadowing a party. There are loads of options available that are similar enough without being too broken; consider a Spirit Shaman, or a Healer without the alignment requirement (their unicorn companion is close enough to an animal companion, and you can make it an evil unicorn or something).

[shadowseve]

I would recommend not actually using a druid, since they're really good at overshadowing a party. There are loads of options available that are similar enough without being too broken; consider a Spirit Shaman, or a Healer without the alignment requirement (their unicorn companion is close enough to an animal companion, and you can make it an evil unicorn or something).


While I agree that druids can overshadow things relatively easy, they can also be toned back. They're a great versatile class but they're also only as powerful as the person wielding them lets them be. I don't think they necessarily need to change classes more than just be mindful on how they're played. A good DM should be able to see when his class is overshadowing them a bit and bring the character in line.

For example, while great spells, the druid doesn't have to cast some of the ones that Eggy mentioned above. He doesn't have to use a fleshraker and venomfire. Things like that can be controlled and go a long way to help keep the druid in check. If the druid is acting more like a beat stick the DM can always fudge a number or two and have the druid miss on some of his attacks.

It's kinda like assume super natural ability and Dal Quor as a planar shepherd; it's sure as hell powerfull but is it necessary? At least that's my perspective.

[jiriku]

Give the druid the shapeshift ACF from PH2. It's an excellent nerf that a) reduces the druid's power and b) makes the druid a lot less time-consuming to prepare and run. I'd suggest you optimize for buffing, healing, removal of negative status conditions, transport, and summoning. Pass the summoned monsters to the PCs to manage during combat. Druids are good at battlefield control and direct damage, but those roles tend to steal the show if done at high-op levels, so it's best to steer clear of them.

[eggynack]

While I agree that druids can overshadow things relatively easy, they can also be toned back. They're a great versatile class but they're also only as powerful as the person wielding them lets them be. I don't think they necessarily need to change classes more than just be mindful on how they're played. A good DM should be able to see when his class is overshadowing them a bit and bring the character in line.

For example, while great spells, the druid doesn't have to cast some of the ones that Eggy mentioned above. He doesn't have to use a fleshraker and venomfire. Things like that can be controlled and go a long way to help keep the druid in check. If the druid is acting more like a beat stick the DM can always fudge a number or two and have the druid miss on some of his attacks.

It's kinda like assume super natural ability and Dal Quor as a planar shepherd; it's sure as hell powerfull but is it necessary? At least that's my perspective.
The issue is primarily that the toned down version is also not exceptionally party friendly. I mean, the toned down version of call avalanche isn't tossing haste on the team's beatsticks. It's beefing up yourself and stabbing something in the face, or casting baleful polymorph. The druid is just not the best in the DMPC role, because they tend to pull focus into themselves, instead of spreading it around. It's a true thing at low optimization and high optimization alike. A party friendly druid is a possibility, certainly, but you need a really good idea of what you're trying to accomplish, and how you're going to accomplish it, or you risk losing focus and consuming the very nature of reality. It's probably actually less of a struggle for something like a wizard, as wizards are more given to subtlety and party aiding.

[shadowseve]

The issue is primarily that the toned down version is also not exceptionally party friendly. I mean, the toned down version of call avalanche isn't tossing haste on the teams beatsticks. It's beefing up yourself and stabbing something in the face, or casting baleful polymorph. The druid is just not the best in the DMPC role, because they tend to pull focus into themselves, instead of spreading it around. It's a true thing at low optimization and high optimization alike. A party friendly druid is a possibility, certainly, but you need a really good idea of what you're trying to accomplish, and how you're going to accomplish it, or you risk losing focus and consuming the very nature of reality. It's probably actually less of a struggle for something like a wizard, as wizards are more given to subtlety and party aiding.

You def know druids better than I. guess my main point was that if his heart was set on a druid DMPC then there should be a way to make it fit with out it going over board even if druids tend to naturally pull focus on themselves. Then again I'm usually the type of person that will try to make something work from a game play perspective and rp perspective. Perhaps the druid is cursed and thus limited to it's wild shaping or limited on the spells that he can cast somehow. He could be a druidic avenger and not get an animal companion or a swift and deadly hunter and give up wild shape. I guess I would attempt something rather than nothing.

I do agree that we need to know the concept before anything.

[Starchild7309]

First, thanks for all the replies. Second, I should tell you I am adding the DMPC to counter the sudden loss of combat power the group has with the pc's being put to the side. The group consists of

warforged fighter
beguiler
cleric of bane/Paladin variant

They asked for a druid type character so I am willing to give them that. I am replacing a hexblade and a duskblade. I would like to just stick to control and/or debuff.

[eggynack]

First, thanks for all the replies. Second, I should tell you I am adding the DMPC to counter the sudden loss of combat power the group has with the pc's being put to the side. The group consists of

warforged fighter
beguiler
cleric of bane/Paladin variant

They asked for a druid type character so I am willing to give them that. I am replacing a hexblade and a duskblade. I would like to just stick to control and/or debuff.
Well, if you want to add combat power, druid definitely does that. The animal companion and summons should grant sufficient melee power to make up for that elements of that aspect that might be missing. As for control and debuff stuff, that's mostly spell selection, though you could potentially also make your animal companion a swindlespitter, for random debuff action, and maybe use one of the more obscure forms that lends itself to these sorts of tactics.

Some of the spells I mentioned, like control winds and blizzard, definitely work well along those lines, and there are a few basic debuff spells hanging out on the list, though perhaps not as many as are held by some classes. Some examples along those lines include moon bolt (SpC, 143), murderous mist (SpC, 145), or if you really want some fun, vision of punishment (CV, 59). I could always also just toss over the handbook I'm working on, if you're just seeking general druid stuff. It has one of the better druid spell lists out there, including a lot more stuff along the lines of the spells I've listed here.

[Starchild7309]

I could always also just toss over the handbook I'm working on, if you're just seeking general druid stuff. It has one of the better druid spell lists out there, including a lot more stuff along the lines of the spells I've listed here.

That would be awesome and greatly appreciated.