Eldritch X + Dragonfire Adept = ???

[ArqArturo]

The Dragonfire Adept looks interesting, and the breath effects seem to be bread and butter of the class and I like the idea to burn things down in fiery death and destruction. That being said, however, on its own, it's not as impressive as, say, the Warlock.

However, can it be possible to optimize them by combining them with a spellcasting class and using the either the Eldritch Disciple or the Eldritch Theurge?.

[nedz]

I spent some time working at this build (2 versions) but I wasn't overly impressed

Air, Sea and Land

Human DFA 1 / Cloistered Cleric 4 / Eldritch Disciple 10
Feats: Dragon Wings [1], Water Devotion[1], Dragonfire Channeling [3], Improved Dragon Wings <30 feet (average)> [6], Flyby Attack[9], Hover [12]
Invocations: Aquatic Adaptation[1] See the Unseen [7] Walk Unseen[10] Voidsense[12] Terrifying Roar[15]
Human Cleric Air + Water domains (Well Cloistered actually for Knowledge too)

Raptoran DFA 1 / Cloistered Cleric 4 / Eldritch Disciple 10
Feats: Water Devotion[1], Dragonfire Channeling [3], Hover [6], Flyby Attack[9], ? [12]
Invocations: Scalding Gust[1] See the Unseen [7] Walk Unseen[10] Voidsense[12] Terrifying Roar[15]
Cleric Air + Sky domains ( Cloistered Knowledge )

Nice flexibility and flavour, but you lose 2 caster levels for a few invocations. Dragonfire Channeling also seemed sub-par.

[Psyren]

However, can it be possible to optimize them by combining them with a spellcasting class and using the either the Eldritch Disciple or the Eldritch Theurge?.

Eldritch Disciple, yes, because that one only requires least invocations. For Eldritch Theurge you need a way of getting +2d6 eldritch blast.

Neither is particularly impressive other than advancing your invocations and spells at the same time though. For ED, most of the Gifts modify an Eldritch Blast and so won't be much use to you; for ET it's even worse.

[Zaq]

I would contest that the DFA doesn't shine on its own next to the Warlock. DFA 20 is a perfectly viable build, and the class is just as good at debuffing/BfC as the Warlock is. A Glaivelock or Hellfire Warlock (with Legacy Champion and/or Uncanny Trickster to pump your Hellfire levels crazy high) will do more damage at high levels (once their main tricks get off the ground), but the DFA's not really about doing damage, Fivefold Breath notwithstanding. DFA invocations are just as good as Warlock ones on the whole, and arguably better.

It's true that you can get higher damage numbers on a Warlock, but I still prefer the DFA, since they can actually do debuffing at low levels, whereas the Warlock doesn't get good at that sort of thing until Greater Invocations are on the field. Entangling Breath hits the field at level 1, and Slow Breath hits the field at level 5. In a high-level game, they're about on par with each other, but I argue that the DFA hits its stride well before the Warlock does.

[ArqArturo]

I would contest that the DFA doesn't shine on its own next to the Warlock. DFA 20 is a perfectly viable build, and the class is just as good at debuffing/BfC as the Warlock is. A Glaivelock or Hellfire Warlock (with Legacy Champion and/or Uncanny Trickster to pump your Hellfire levels crazy high) will do more damage at high levels (once their main tricks get off the ground), but the DFA's not really about doing damage, Fivefold Breath notwithstanding. DFA invocations are just as good as Warlock ones on the whole, and arguably better.

It's true that you can get higher damage numbers on a Warlock, but I still prefer the DFA, since they can actually do debuffing at low levels, whereas the Warlock doesn't get good at that sort of thing until Greater Invocations are on the field. Entangling Breath hits the field at level 1, and Slow Breath hits the field at level 5. In a high-level game, they're about on par with each other, but I argue that the DFA hits its stride well before the Warlock does.

Yup, this is the general thoughst on the DFA. I would've liked a disclaimer that placed that you could advance the breath effects as well, and consider the breath as a EB for intents and purposes, but then the DFa would perhaps outshine in the warlock in some cases (blast instead of a single target, unless you use eldritch chain).

[shadowseve]

one of the things about dfa that makes them shine is if you find away to use meta breath feats. The power surge feat from dragon magazine 313, if dragon magazine is allowed, should let you quilify for meta breath feats. lets take a look at an example given here (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1101061)"turn into a Varag and make sure you wear Boots of Striding and Springing. If you're using traits, pick Quick for another +10 ft. to speed. When you activate Greater Draconic Flight, you'll have a perfect flight speed of 160 ft. This means you can breathe your Fivefold Breath in a 90 ft. cone, which means a circular area (when breathing from 90 ft. up) 120 feet in diameter. You can lay this field of effect over 80 feet - in other words, a clinging, lingering breath that will deal ((9*6)*5 = 54*5 = 270) 270 energy damage per round to everything within an 80 (wide) x 120 (long) x 90 (high) foot pointed block. It will last as long as you want, and continue dealing 270 damage per round. Go scorch some armies into ashes."

that is not shabby at all.

Not to mention you don't have an attack roll since you'll be breathing fire all day. You're pretty much SAD. Con is your friend. That website I linked has some great info on it.

edit:
the only problem with the above example could be the range. Some Dm's won't let you use your breathe weapon while you are shape changed. If that's the case the radius would be smaller but the damage is the same.

Edit 2:
Here are the feats used in that example
Clinging Breath (1st), Lingering Breath (flaw), Entangling Exhalation (flaw), Clinging Breath (3rd), Flyby Attack (6th), Flyby Breath (9th), Strafing Breath (12th), Maximize Breath (15th), Shape Breath (18th

[Jeff the Green]

one of the things about dfa that makes them shine is if you find away to use meta breath feats.

The easiest way is by being a dragonborn (heart). You use your racial breath weapon to qualify, but you can still apply them to your DFA breath weapon.

[shadowseve]

The easiest way is by being a dragonborn (heart). You use your racial breath weapon to qualify, but you can still apply them to your DFA breath weapon.

yeah I went the raptoran dragon born route with my dragon fire adept in my second campaign. I love using quickened breath from my "dragonborn side" to do entangling breath and then fire my breath weapon from dragon fire adept in the same round. Nice to have two breath weapons to use on occasion. that way only one is on cool down.

edit:
I can't type to save my life tonight :smallsigh:

[Jeff the Green]

yeah went the raptoran dragon born route with my dragon fire adept in my second campaign. I love using quickened breath weapon to do entangling breath and then fire my breath weapon from dragon fire adept. Nice to have two breath weapons to use. :smallbiggrin:

My favorite is actually mongrelfolk. +6 Constitution. +8 if you can get the arctic template on there.

[shadowseve]

My favorite is actually mongrelfolk. +6 Constitution. +8 if you can get the arctic template on there.

Yeah that plus to con is sexy.:smallbiggrin: For me it came down to rp and story line (first time DM so it's not a huge min/max campaign). I liked the flight that raptoran gave me and it kinda fit a theme I wanted for a background story. But I was kinda salivating over that con.:smallbiggrin:

Magic items are abundant in this world so I shouldn't have to many issues boosting my con to absurd levels if I want.

Something about dragonfire adept though that is sexy. Maybe not as strong as a wizard, druid, or cleric etc.. but it's damn fun to play.:smallbiggrin:

[Jeff the Green]

Yeah, while mongrelfolk is good, it's really just +2 to DCs and HP/level. mostly I like the idea of starting with a Constitution of 26. (And a Charisma of 2!)

[Psyren]

Yeah, while mongrelfolk is good, it's really just +2 to DCs and HP/level. mostly I like the idea of starting with a Constitution of 26. (And a Charisma of 2!)

Don't forget your most important save, concentration checks, holding your breath and other goodies.