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DarkOne-Rob
2014-06-23, 03:01 PM
Hey everyone. I am a self-acknowledged caster-lover (I like having options both in and out of combat). However, martial characters should get nice things too, IMO.

So in the spirit of an honest mental exercise I decided to build a fighter level 1-20. I decided on the Tactician (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/tactician) archetype and began figuring out my ability scores (20 point buy). That's when I became frustrated...

I know I need a good Strength score, Dexterity is going to be essential to get use out of Armor Training, Constitution is always nice, Intelligence needs to be at 13 minimum for Combat Expertise (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/feats.html#_combat-expertise) and the improved Combat Maneuver feats, Wisdom needs to be at least decent to avoid getting Charmed/Dominated and turning on my party, and Charisma can be dumped... Yay MAD (Multiple Ability Dependancy)...

So things look like this: Str: 16, Dex: 14, Con: 11, Int: 13, Wis: 14, Cha: 7.
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All that said, how on earth am I going to actually be able to utilize Armor Training? Taking a Breastplate for example (+6 AC, +3 Max Dex, -4 Armor Check Penalty) and using Armor Training 2 (+2 Max Dex and -2 Penalty) and Masterwork Mithral Armor (+2 Max Dex, -3 Penalty) means I would need a +7 Dexterity Modifier (24 minimum Dexterity score). Starting with a 14 in Dexterity means I would need at least a +6 belt and +4 from some other (non-enhancement bonus) source to get full use out of the class feature.

I suppose I could plan on using inferior armor and spend the 10K for Mithral somewhere else. However, for AC to be meaningful in the higher levels you have to invest in it, and I am not convinced that I will get much out of it without at least the investment I have described...

Even if I dump scores like Intelligence and Wisdom (which I do not want to have to do) I would only be getting enough to bump Dexterity up to maybe 16 or so... which is better I guess, but still not impressing me with the class feature and the opportunity to utilize it.

If I understand things correctly, this becomes even harder for normal Fighters using heavy armor... How on earth is this a worthwhile thing?
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TLDR: Is there some way to get a high enough Dexterity score to utilize the Armor Training class feature of the Fighter class without gimping the stats on this (surprisingly) MAD class?

Spore
2014-06-23, 06:06 PM
You might actually like the extra +2 on an attribute instead of the bonus feat of Humans. Just because you're so MAD. Str +2 and Con +2

Str 15 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 12 Cha 7

I wouldn't bother too much with Armor Training. It's go big or go home. And your fighter nees to invest in other areas to be useful (and even be considered a target for your AC to benefit you). So you'd need some sort of flight to threaten casters starting at level 8-11. You always need a decent weapon to keep up to par and imho the only AC worth considering then is touch AC. After that, saves. After that, normal AC.

Eldaran
2014-06-23, 07:39 PM
Why not simply spend a feat on Heavy Armor Proficiency and grab Full Plate?

grarrrg
2014-06-23, 09:37 PM
All that said, how on earth am I going to actually be able to utilize Armor Training?...Starting with a 14 in Dexterity means I would need at least a +6 belt and +4 from some other (non-enhancement bonus) source to get full use out of the class feature.

I suppose I could plan on using inferior armor and spend the 10K for Mithral somewhere else. However, for AC to be meaningful in the higher levels you have to invest in it, and I am not convinced that I will get much out of it without at least the investment I have described...

TLDR: Is there some way to get a high enough Dexterity score to utilize the Armor Training class feature of the Fighter class without gimping the stats on this (surprisingly) MAD class?

I'm not getting the obsession with Armor Training/Mithral.
My baseline suggestion is to just not bother with Mithral at all.
Seriously, just invest the money elsewhere. There are plenty other worthwhile things than straight AC, and plenty of other Fighters have survived with less then "absolute maximum" AC.