A Chaos-themed Wizard?

[tadkins]

I'm interested in building one of these for an upcoming game and would love some thoughts. I'm thinking of a crazy, cackling little gnome who is all about the Chaos, with a capital C. Though I realize this is an oxymoron, since "devotion" to an ideal suggests a Lawful bent. Nevertheless, he's Chaotic Neutral to the core, reveling in randomness and simply doing his own thing. While the party is discussing how to infiltrate a castle, this wizard might have already blown open a giant hole in the castle wall. At a certain point he'll be visiting and eventually building his home base somewhere in Limbo.

So far I'm thinking a simple Wizard10/Wild Mage 10. I'd be going with 10 levels of Wizard primarily for the Planar Wizard substitution level that would let him give his spells the [Chaotic] descriptor. Wild Mage seems like it would thematically fit the character best. There is also the Chaotic Spell Recall (http://dndtools.eu/feats/fiendish-codex-i-hordes-of-the-abyss--66/chaotic-spell-recall--326/) feat I could take that would not only make sense for the character thematically, but would synergize well with the build.

Strategically, I want him to be doing a mix of blasting and summoning. Might have him specialize in either Evocation or Conjuration, not sure which. Besides what I've posted above, I'm really not sure where else I can go with him, feats and build wise. Open to any suggestions/thoughts/comments.

[Zanos]

Planar Wizard + Chaotic Spell Recall is pretty much the core of the build, and what I came in here to suggest.

Practiced Spellcaster can help with Wild Magic. Depending on how you interpret it it either sets your CL to your HD if you roll below it, or makes it HD + 1d6. Solid either way.

[TandemChelipeds]

School-wise, Illusion and Transmutation are obvious choices, covering deception and change respectively. Apart from that, I don't know. I've come to find that particular variety of chaotic neutral irritating lately.

[tadkins]

Practiced Spellcaster can help with Wild Magic. Depending on how you interpret it it either sets your CL to your HD if you roll below it, or makes it HD + 1d6. Solid either way.

Read about this one as well. A friend thinks it's cheesy (how can you 'practice' randomness and chaos?), but I think it can make sense.


School-wise, Illusion and Transmutation are obvious choices, covering deception and change respectively. Apart from that, I don't know. I've come to find that particular variety of chaotic neutral irritating lately.

Though I probably wouldn't ban Illusion, I wouldn't think of this character as being very subtle. He'd be cackling as he throws magic around here and there, reveling in the chaos and destruction that results from it.

I understand the stigma that tends to stick to the Chaotic Neutral alignment, but it's kind of a challenge I wanted to undertake. The main points I'm planning on focusing is that while he's random, he's not just as likely to betray the party as fight alongside it. That'd be crossing into evil territory. He's also not going to throw fireballs into his own group members, as that'd be detrimental to everyone's interest, and a CN character focuses on their own interests. :)

[Jeff the Green]

Practiced Spellcaster can help with Wild Magic. Depending on how you interpret it it either sets your CL to your HD if you roll below it, or makes it HD + 1d6. Solid either way.

Definitely the former. You apply the effects one at a time, in full, in the order you choose. So you apply Wild Magic and your CL goes to (Level + [-2...3]). If it ends up -2 or -1, Practiced Caster steps in and sets it to level. So the distribution is (Level + [0, 0, 0, 1, 2, 3]). Incidentally, this is why Illumians make such good wild mages; the Krau sigil is like Practiced Spellcaster except only +2 CL, but that's all a Wild Mage needs.

Look into ways of adding spells to your list. If you can get (lesser/greater) spirit binding, you can bind fey, which goes well with chaos. (Also, there are some awesome spirits you can bind.) Otherwise, bound slaadi are okay brutes to have at your side.

[TandemChelipeds]

Read about this one as well. A friend thinks it's cheesy (how can you 'practice' randomness and chaos?), but I think it can make sense.



Though I probably wouldn't ban Illusion, I wouldn't think of this character as being very subtle. He'd be cackling as he throws magic around here and there, reveling in the chaos and destruction that results from it.

I understand the stigma that tends to stick to the Chaotic Neutral alignment, but it's kind of a challenge I wanted to undertake. The main points I'm planning on focusing is that while he's random, he's not just as likely to betray the party as fight alongside it. That'd be crossing into evil territory. He's also not going to throw fireballs into his own group members, as that'd be detrimental to everyone's interest, and a CN character focuses on their own interests. :)

Well, it's precisely because I love the Chaotic Neutral alignment that I dislike characters like this. It's probably my favourite, actually, so it always stings a little when I see it treated hamfistedly. I dunno, I guess what it is is that people have very specific ideas of what chaos is, and to me, chaos carries connotations of confusion, conflict, and ambiguity. "Blowing stuff up" has never struck me as particularly chaotic. But then, I can't judge. In one of my games I'm playing a hammy cleric of Azathoth. I took the Evangelist archetype(this is Pathfinder), so I spend a good part of every combat giving horribly bleak speeches about the ultimate apathy of the cosmos and the madness of our struggle, and the other characters actually get morale bonuses for it.

[tadkins]

Look into ways of adding spells to your list. If you can get (lesser/greater) spirit binding, you can bind fey, which goes well with chaos. (Also, there are some awesome spirits you can bind.) Otherwise, bound slaadi are okay brutes to have at your side.

The Spirit Binding spells look fun, and Fey would definitely be fitting. Getting them from the Wu Jen lists might be a challenge though.

Other than that though, I was picturing this character summoning a mix of CN, N, CG and CE outsiders from time to time. Some Slaadi brutes backed up by elementals, demons and eladrin, whatever the wizard feels like having out at the time. xD


Well, it's precisely because I love the Chaotic Neutral alignment that I dislike characters like this. It's probably my favourite, actually, so it always stings a little when I see it treated hamfistedly. I dunno, I guess what it is is that people have very specific ideas of what chaos is, and to me, chaos carries connotations of confusion, conflict, and ambiguity. "Blowing stuff up" has never struck me as particularly chaotic. But then, I can't judge. In one of my games I'm playing a hammy cleric of Azathoth. I took the Evangelist archetype(this is Pathfinder), so I spend a good part of every combat giving horribly bleak speeches about the ultimate apathy of the cosmos and the madness of our struggle, and the other characters actually get morale bonuses for it.

I'm open to any RP tips you might have. It's precisely because of that stigma that I want to try and do the CN alignment justice. :)

Without going into the whole story right now, I'd like to think there would be plenty of good backstory reasons for his alignment. Particularly that he's an outcast from his predominantly-LE family.

[TandemChelipeds]

The Spirit Binding spells look fun, and Fey would definitely be fitting. Getting them from the Wu Jen lists might be a challenge though.

Other than that though, I was picturing this character summoning a mix of CN, N, CG and CE outsiders from time to time. Some Slaadi brutes backed up by elementals, demons and eladrin, whatever the wizard feels like having out at the time. xD



I'm open to any RP tips you might have. It's precisely because of that stigma that I want to try and do the CN alignment justice. :)

Without going into the whole story right now, I'd like to think there would be plenty of good backstory reasons for his alignment. Particularly that he's an outcast from his predominantly-LE family.

Hmm. You might want to watch Steins;Gate, then. I kinda get the impression that half of your character's behavior would be affectation, and Steins;Gate follows a nerd who does something similar. Throughout the entire series, he maintains the persona of a flamboyant mad scientist (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNNmf0yyILs), and as events gradually overwhelm him, the facade falls apart piece by piece. It's fascinating at times, watching him flounder between his persona as Hououin Kyouma and his genuine concerns and fear as Okabe Rintaro. It seems like he can't quite decide which one he'd rather be and which one he's more disgusted by, and I think internal conflict is essential to a well-executed chaotic character. As above, so below; if a character is externally chaotic, they are most likely internally chaotic as well.

[Slug Bear]

Check out Dragon Magazine #357, page 88, for the Aligned Spellcaster ACF. Choose Chaos, and then all your spells will be chaotic (and available for recall). Then the only recall limit you have is based on your number of AH feats.

If you play Pathfinder, and own a copy of Deep Magic, pages 20-24 detail Chaos and Wonder magic, which would fit well with a Chaos Wizard.

Other things that come to mind are the Luck mechanic and the many multiple effect spells (i.e. confusion and prismatic spray). Nothing says Chaos like re-rolls and random rolls!

[Azraile]

Friends don't let friends go chaos mage

[tadkins]

I'm debating whether I should take Craft Rod, just so I can be guaranteed to have my Rod of Wonder for the Wild Mage levels.


Hmm. You might want to watch Steins;Gate, then. I kinda get the impression that half of your character's behavior would be affectation, and Steins;Gate follows a nerd who does something similar. Throughout the entire series, he maintains the persona of a flamboyant mad scientist (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNNmf0yyILs), and as events gradually overwhelm him, the facade falls apart piece by piece. It's fascinating at times, watching him flounder between his persona as Hououin Kyouma and his genuine concerns and fear as Okabe Rintaro. It seems like he can't quite decide which one he'd rather be and which one he's more disgusted by, and I think internal conflict is essential to a well-executed chaotic character. As above, so below; if a character is externally chaotic, they are most likely internally chaotic as well.

This was interesting to watch, thanks for the link. :)

Been thinking about a good way to portray the character. One advantage I have is that this is actually a character I've had for more than 18 years. I came up with the basic concept for him when I was 13 years old, and have played him in a number of games. In that time I've had him experience a number of key events, events in which I can use to shape his backstory and shape the internal struggles he's going through, which in turn can fuel the chaos that makes up the essence of his character.


Check out Dragon Magazine #357, page 88, for the Aligned Spellcaster ACF. Choose Chaos, and then all your spells will be chaotic (and available for recall). Then the only recall limit you have is based on your number of AH feats.

If you play Pathfinder, and own a copy of Deep Magic, pages 20-24 detail Chaos and Wonder magic, which would fit well with a Chaos Wizard.

Other things that come to mind are the Luck mechanic and the many multiple effect spells (i.e. confusion and prismatic spray). Nothing says Chaos like re-rolls and random rolls!

Damn, these both sound really interesting. Especially the ACF; I can take that and free up a whole bunch of levels to consider another PrC with. Also helpful if I end up making a Pathfinder incarnation later on as well. Sadly I can't seem to find any of these books right now.


Friends don't let friends go chaos mage

"But...I can feel the chaos RAGE within me! Well...either that or it's the fiber-rich sandwich I ate twenty minutes ago."

[Slug Bear]

The Aligned Spellcaster ACF replaces your familiar @ 1st level, in case you had your heart set on one. Also, any spell that already has an alignment descriptor (i.e. evil, good, law) cannot be converted to your chosen alignment (in your case Chaos), but any other spell can.

But yeah, its at 1st level. No need to go Planar Wizard.

[tadkins]

The Aligned Spellcaster ACF replaces your familiar @ 1st level, in case you had your heart set on one. Also, any spell that already has an alignment descriptor (i.e. evil, good, law) cannot be converted to your chosen alignment (in your case Chaos), but any other spell can.

But yeah, its at 1st level. No need to go Planar Wizard.

Was going to be looking to replace the familiar, so this works out perfectly. Thanks for the info. :)

[Darkweave31]

Be a killer gnome... illusionist 5/ shadowcraft mage 5/ incantatrix 10

You will be able to sew so much chaos with your shadowcraft illusions. Trust me it's a blast. Bonus points if you can learn miracle.

[tadkins]

Be a killer gnome... illusionist 5/ shadowcraft mage 5/ incantatrix 10

You will be able to sew so much chaos with your shadowcraft illusions. Trust me it's a blast. Bonus points if you can learn miracle.

I'm trying to avoid a build with Incantatrix since in my experience, every DM I've ever played with has banned it. Also trying to go for more of an Evocation or Conjuration build; while I realize Shadow Evocation can duplicate everything, it just doesn't fit the image I have of the character to be an illusion master.

The quote in your signature is very appropriate to this character. xD

[Slug Bear]

No problem. I have most dnd/ pf books and mags put out, so I have ideas for everything. So many ideas...

Anyways, to piggyback off of TandemChelipeds' point about Illusions and Transmutations, you could try out the Changeling Wizard racial substitution. It also has the Morphic Familiar, which is pretty chaotic in itself!

[tadkins]

No problem. I have most dnd/ pf books and mags put out, so I have ideas for everything. So many ideas...

Anyways, to piggyback off of TandemChelipeds' point about Illusions and Transmutations, you could try out the Changeling Wizard racial substitution. It also has the Morphic Familiar, which is pretty chaotic in itself!

That's the big thing about D&D; there's just *so* many options, it's hard to know what makes a good build. xD

While a Changeling Wizard sounds fun, I gotta stick with a gnome.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_CiARj4w8LEk/TSFYp0GJkvI/AAAAAAAAAtQ/pNhgdLBZFjw/s1600/Gnomes.jpg

[AvatarVecna]

A chaotic wizard has an interesting RP position: there's a method to their madness. Every action they take, every word they speak, every spell they cast, seems totally random, but somehow always makes their life easier. If you have the skill points to spare, take some ranks in Perform (acting/comedy/oratory/riddles/etc.); go nuts using your words to drive people crazy. Play it like someone who's ridiculously intelligent, and is constantly finding ways to use that intelligence to make the world more amusing for themselves. The world is one big joke, and this wizard is the punch line the world never wanted to hear.

For more RP fun, be extremely creative/disturbing with your spells:

Target summoning spells up in the air and make it rain cats and dogs.

Use "Reverse Gravity" whenever you decide combat would be more fun on the ceiling.

Combine "Wall of Stone" and "Stone to Flesh"; revel in the chorus of revulsion this idea is met with. For added fun, summon something and command it to feed on the wall.

If you're asked to cast Wish to Resurrect someone, intentionally cast it as a Reincarnation spell, and use the Wild Mage "Student of Chaos" class ability to give you more control over what they reincarnate as.

Cast "Ventriloquism" on the enemy's weapon to make it emit sensual moans.

In a high-level campaign, hire someone to carry a torch at some ridiculous price paid up front. When they die in the high-level dungeon, reclaim your gold and use their body for the necromancy spell of your choice.

Use "Polymorph Any Object" to turn nun-chucks into gnome-chucks.

Really, just go nuts.

[AvatarVecna]

No problem. I have most dnd/ pf books and mags put out, so I have ideas for everything. So many ideas...

Anyways, to piggyback off of TandemChelipeds' point about Illusions and Transmutations, you could try out the Changeling Wizard racial substitution. It also has the Morphic Familiar, which is pretty chaotic in itself!

Look into the Recaster PrC; it's changelings only, and gives you a few divine spells of your choice. Let your imagination run wild.

[tadkins]

A chaotic wizard has an interesting RP position: there's a method to their madness. Every action they take, every word they speak, every spell they cast, seems totally random, but somehow always makes their life easier. If you have the skill points to spare, take some ranks in Perform (acting/comedy/oratory/riddles/etc.); go nuts using your words to drive people crazy. Play it like someone who's ridiculously intelligent, and is constantly finding ways to use that intelligence to make the world more amusing for themselves. The world is one big joke, and this wizard is the punch line the world never wanted to hear.

For more RP fun, be extremely creative/disturbing with your spells:

Target summoning spells up in the air and make it rain cats and dogs.

Use "Reverse Gravity" whenever you decide combat would be more fun on the ceiling.

Combine "Wall of Stone" and "Stone to Flesh"; revel in the chorus of revulsion this idea is met with. For added fun, summon something and command it to feed on the wall.

If you're asked to cast Wish to Resurrect someone, intentionally cast it as a Reincarnation spell, and use the Wild Mage "Student of Chaos" class ability to give you more control over what they reincarnate as.

Cast "Ventriloquism" on the enemy's weapon to make it emit sensual moans.

In a high-level campaign, hire someone to carry a torch at some ridiculous price paid up front. When they die in the high-level dungeon, reclaim your gold and use their body for the necromancy spell of your choice.

Use "Polymorph Any Object" to turn nun-chucks into gnome-chucks.

Really, just go nuts.

*takes furious notes*

This is going to be so much fun! xD

The Wish/Reincarnate thing though, I'd have to be using that from an item if I want Student of Chaos to kick in, right? Unless there's something I'm missing.

[AvatarVecna]

*takes furious notes*

This is going to be so much fun! xD

The Wish/Reincarnate thing though, I'd have to be using that from an item if I want Student of Chaos to kick in, right? Unless there's something I'm missing.

Uh...no, you're not missing something, I was. And now that I think about it, I think Limited Wish can count as Reincarnation. Still, it's an interesting idea.

Ultimately, when looking through spells, keep in mind that, as a Wizard, you won't suck unless you really try; just find spells that can be cast in fun ways. Let your imagination run wild.

Regarding my suggestion of Recaster (a changeling wizard PrC that gives a few divine spells), perhaps you'll find "Infestation of Maggots" (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-divine--56/infestation-of-maggots--722/) to your liking? It kills with the right timing, and is visually wonderful.

[tadkins]

Uh...no, you're not missing something, I was. And now that I think about it, I think Limited Wish can count as Reincarnation. Still, it's an interesting idea.

Ultimately, when looking through spells, keep in mind that, as a Wizard, you won't suck unless you really try; just find spells that can be cast in fun ways. Let your imagination run wild.

Regarding my suggestion of Recaster (a changeling wizard PrC that gives a few divine spells), perhaps you'll find "Infestation of Maggots" (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-divine--56/infestation-of-maggots--722/) to your liking? It kills with the right timing, and is visually wonderful.

I would love to try and get that going, just so I can have the power to turn the party elf into a kobold. xD

That spell looks fun as hell, but unfortunately I can't be a Changeling, so no Recaster shenanigans. :(

[XmonkTad]

Don't forget Prismatic Burst Weapons! So what if it's a +3? Rerolling it means you're bound to do something horrible. Fatespinner is a fun PrC for 4/5 levels. Luck feats are thematic, but weak.

If retraining is allowed (or your DM decides that the Dark Chaos shuffle is ok) then Shape Soulmeld [Lucky Dice] is good fun. Infinite dice you can toss around as a swift action. The bonuses are pretty lousy without essentia, but a master of chaos needs lots of dice!

Also, being Chaotic Neutral doesn't mean chaotic stupid. It does mean you'll end up with a lot of strange things in your inventory though (200 fish skeletons, experimental love potions, this one just says "Dwarf Bread" are you sure you don't mean "Dwarven Bread"?).

[AvatarVecna]

Another RP angle to consider: play it up as a mad scientist type. Sometimes, you experiment with magic. Sometimes those experiments mutate, explode, or disappear for no discernible reason.

[AvatarVecna]

I would love to try and get that going, just so I can have the power to turn the party elf into a kobold. xD

That spell looks fun as hell, but unfortunately I can't be a Changeling, so no Recaster shenanigans. :(

I only mention Recaster because changeling was mentioned. Wyrm Wizard can do the same thing: the idea is a wizard apprenticed to a dragon, and they can also get a few divine spells added to their wizard list.

Also, I'm not sure how much it'll fit thematically, but the Alienist can also do Chaos wizard quite well. A couple levels could do you good.

[tadkins]

My wizard will eventually be opening a nightclub and casino as part of his home turf within the realm of Limbo. It'll be open periodically throughout the year, with random invitations shot all across the Material Plane to the most bitchin' party in the multiverse (Probably have to research a spell for such a thing). Anyone has a shot at receiving one, from the poor to the rich, from the good to the evil, and everyone in between.

How's that for random? xD

[AvatarVecna]

My wizard will eventually be opening a nightclub and casino as part of his home turf within the realm of Limbo. It'll be open periodically throughout the year, with random invitations shot all across the Material Plane to the most bitchin' party in the multiverse (Probably have to research a spell for such a thing). Anyone has a shot at receiving one, from the poor to the rich, from the good to the evil, and everyone in between.

How's that for random? xD

Ways to make this more chaotic:

Write the invitations in code/various languages. Use odd substances for ink (blood, oil, wet sand, etc.).

Make each letter an undetectable spell-completion magic item, with the spell completed upon the reading of the letter. "Explosive Runes", "Baleful Polymorph", "Confusion", "Invisibility"...go nuts. Try to avoid spells that would incapacitate them: you're looking to make their lives interesting, not over. My personal favorite for this is "Geas/Quest"; it normally requires 10 minutes to cast and doesn't give a save. Now they have to come to your party! Because if they don't, they'll become deathly ill!

Go out of your way to invite some sort of high level paladin (including the UA variants for various alignments).

Hire a band: the "percussion section" is some big brute (ogre, orc, giant, etc.) slapping himself silly for your guests entertainment. The "wind section" is more big brutes farting out any tune you care to hear. The "brass section" is a big brute with a big mallet and a big gong; he hits it whenever he sees someone take a drink. Speaking of...

Spike the punch bowl with any potion you can think of. Poisons would be more CE than CN, so stick to potions. As with the invitations, just have fun.

[tadkins]

Ways to make this more chaotic:

Write the invitations in code/various languages. Use odd substances for ink (blood, oil, wet sand, etc.).

Make each letter an undetectable spell-completion magic item, with the spell completed upon the reading of the letter. "Explosive Runes", "Baleful Polymorph", "Confusion", "Invisibility"...go nuts. Try to avoid spells that would incapacitate them: you're looking to make their lives interesting, not over. My personal favorite for this is "Geas/Quest"; it normally requires 10 minutes to cast and doesn't give a save. Now they have to come to your party! Because if they don't, they'll become deathly ill!

Go out of your way to invite some sort of high level paladin (including the UA variants for various alignments).

Hire a band: the "percussion section" is some big brute (ogre, orc, giant, etc.) slapping himself silly for your guests entertainment. The "wind section" is more big brutes farting out any tune you care to hear. The "brass section" is a big brute with a big mallet and a big gong; he hits it whenever he sees someone take a drink. Speaking of...

Spike the punch bowl with any potion you can think of. Poisons would be more CE than CN, so stick to potions. As with the invitations, just have fun.

Original plan was to just send out invitations in the form of some kind of "teleportation stone", but this...this sounds so much more fun.

It'll all be meant purely for fun, definitely. The world is filled with enough killing and betrayal that I think it would be a great thing to have a party where no one's fearing for their lives. Of course there might be some back-alley dealings going on that escapes the wizard's eye, but for the most part it's not a malicious thing he wants to put together. D&D tends to teach us otherwise, of course people might be suspicious of a random invitation to some wizard's lair out of the blue, but their concerns are meant to be unfounded.

So much potential...CN doesn't deserve the bad rap it gets.

[AvatarVecna]

CN doesn't deserve the bad rap it gets.

The bad reputation is, unfortunately, due to many players thinking that the ultimate free thinker is someone who acts completely nonsensically. That, and the fact that they want an alignment that allows them to do whatever the f*** they want without causing alignment issues. Thinking outside the norm is one thing, but impersonating a complete lunatic isn't how a person devoted to personal freedom acts.

A selfish person who rejects authority is CN. They have a moral compass, but they don't always act on it; conversely, they don't go out of their way to screw people over, they just want to do their thing without intervention. A common argument they use would be "It's not hurting anybody, so what's the problem?"

The mad scientist is CN. They are only interested in the advancement of scientific knowledge, and the government only limits their capacity to investigate the inner workings of the universe, so they must perform their research in secret. The don't seek to cure cancer or create monsters, they seek a more efficient fuel source. They look for the out-of-the-box, off-the-wall solutions to any problem, even if it's not the problem they have to deal with.

The sly manipulator might be CN. This smooth criminal makes their own rules, and doesn't listen to anyone. They'll lie, cheat, steal, or kill, so long as their goals are met, their needs are satisfied, and their desires are acquiesced. They don't need to hurt others to make this happen, and there's lines they won't cross for personal reasons; that said, if the only way to get their way is to make the other guy lose, that's what they'll do. They might be remorseful about it, maybe even for a long time, but they won't let anyone see that, because they don't want to look like they're not completely in control of themselves.

The mad scientist, the smooth criminal, the rebel without a cause, the zealous anarchist...all of perfectly wonderful CN stereotypes that lend themselves to a number of interesting role playing opportunities. And yet, the only place I've seen a CN character I didn't want to slap silly is in the various char op contests this forum runs.

[tadkins]

The bad reputation is, unfortunately, due to many players thinking that the ultimate free thinker is someone who acts completely nonsensically. That, and the fact that they want an alignment that allows them to do whatever the f*** they want without causing alignment issues. Thinking outside the norm is one thing, but impersonating a complete lunatic isn't how a person devoted to personal freedom acts.

A selfish person who rejects authority is CN. They have a moral compass, but they don't always act on it; conversely, they don't go out of their way to screw people over, they just want to do their thing without intervention. A common argument they use would be "It's not hurting anybody, so what's the problem?"

The mad scientist is CN. They are only interested in the advancement of scientific knowledge, and the government only limits their capacity to investigate the inner workings of the universe, so they must perform their research in secret. The don't seek to cure cancer or create monsters, they seek a more efficient fuel source. They look for the out-of-the-box, off-the-wall solutions to any problem, even if it's not the problem they have to deal with.

The sly manipulator might be CN. This smooth criminal makes their own rules, and doesn't listen to anyone. They'll lie, cheat, steal, or kill, so long as their goals are met, their needs are satisfied, and their desires are acquiesced. They don't need to hurt others to make this happen, and there's lines they won't cross for personal reasons; that said, if the only way to get their way is to make the other guy lose, that's what they'll do. They might be remorseful about it, maybe even for a long time, but they won't let anyone see that, because they don't want to look like they're not completely in control of themselves.

The mad scientist, the smooth criminal, the rebel without a cause, the zealous anarchist...all of perfectly wonderful CN stereotypes that lend themselves to a number of interesting role playing opportunities. And yet, the only place I've seen a CN character I didn't want to slap silly is in the various char op contests this forum runs.

If I played in a game with you I'd try to do it justice. I can understand the stigma a bit, as some people think CN gives them the right to do whatever they want to their party and the NPCs around them. Basically, "CE in a non-evil game".

The wizard in question I think would have a bit of all three examples you've listed. There would be reasons behind his mindset, which I would try and portray well in the RP that follows. Essentially, he'd do what he wants, but try not to step on his allies' toes while he does it. That 18 Intelligence has to count for something, right?

The sheer thrill of fun and adventure would sometimes be enough to coax a CN character into action, and ruining a game kills both of that. I think that'd be the big thing to remember when playing one that can work in a party.

[AvatarVecna]

The CN wizard might me a mad scientist, investigating magic in ways that tradition find abhorrent, while morality is ignored in the favor of advancing magical knowledge.

The CN wizard might be an anarchist who thinks the best way for society to run is for everyone to do their own thing, with no societal norms or governments decreeing what is and isn't allowed.

The CN wizard might be a mad eccentric who uses their magical prowess to make the world more entertaining and interesting, possibly out of boredom, possibly out of a devotion to chaos. This, from what I understand, is the character you were aiming at, although I can't say for sure. It's the respectable form of the CN stereotype: a character that seems to act randomly, but has a method to their madness, a motivation driving their actions.

[tadkins]

The CN wizard might be a mad eccentric who uses their magical prowess to make the world more entertaining and interesting, possibly out of boredom, possibly out of a devotion to chaos. This, from what I understand, is the character you were aiming at, although I can't say for sure. It's the respectable form of the CN stereotype: a character that seems to act randomly, but has a method to their madness, a motivation driving their actions.

Sounds about right. If "devotion" to Chaos can be a thing, anyway. He believes that law and order are one huge farce, and that Law only exists when the one imposing it has the strength to do so. Once that strength and vigilance falters, things return to Chaos.

It's for that reason that this kind of character might rescue children from a burning orphanage one day, and pick a fight with a paladin getting into his business the next.

A party member might wake up to find this wizard gone. He didn't abandon the group of course, but he might have went on a quicky solo-stint for a few hours. Wizards have that kind of power, after all. He might be off rescuing a princess on another world, he might have ported to the Elemental Plane of Earth to search out a really nice gem, or he might have returned home to crack open that piece of Demonic lore they found a few days ago. Could be anything, really.

Of course everything he does could be explainable in some capacity, even if his goals might be secretive and/or necessarily complicated, or he was simply bored.