Underwater Verbal Components

[Alex12]

Most non-aquatic races need to breathe air, or they die. You can't hold your breath while you're speaking, making verbal components risky at best. This thread is not about that. Aquatic races can breathe underwater, and I think it's reasonable to assume that a creature that lives underwater can perform verbal components underwater. This thread isn't about that either.
This thread is about spellcasters of races that don't need to breathe at all. That's mostly warforged and undead of various sorts, but I don't want to be too exclusive in case there's others.
Quite simply, can such races that don't need to breathe use verbal components underwater? Or does the water filling their lungs (if they have any) still interfere with speech just through density/viscosity/something else? If I'm playing a necropolitan, I've still presumably got lungs that inflate and force air through my vocal apparatus to let me talk, even if I'm not using the air for anything else. The same is probably true for a vampire, or other undead that more-or-less retain their old physiology, even if it doesn't work anymore. But I've got no idea if Warforged have lungs, and I'm pretty sure most liches don't. So how does the whole thing work?

[Flickerdart]

As long as you can speak in a strong voice, you can use verbal components. Sound actually carries quite well underwater.

[Zanos]

The only RAW requirement for casting underwater is being able to speak in a strong voice. Go dunk your head in a pool and try to talk. You might not be understandable, but it's certainly audible.

Might be a bit of a tortured reading of RAW, but even a spellcaster who needs to breathe air and is underwater should be able to do so just fine. Until they start drowning.

EDIT: Someone's been taking shadow hand maneuvers I see.

[jedipotter]

This thread is about spellcasters of races that don't need to breathe at all. That's mostly warforged and undead of various sorts, but I don't want to be too exclusive in case there's others.
Quite simply, can such races that don't need to breathe use verbal components underwater? Or does the water filling their lungs (if they have any) still interfere with speech just through density/viscosity/something else? The same is probably true for a vampire, or other undead that more-or-less retain their old physiology, even if it doesn't work anymore. But I've got no idea if Warforged have lungs, and I'm pretty sure most liches don't. So how does the whole thing work?

You might as well ask: how does a creature that does not breathe speak or say a verbal component? They just do.

I like the idea that they use minor telekinesis to move air or water to make sounds.

And if you go for the Bigger World Idea, I'd say that spells have alternative verbal components that can be spoken underwater.

[Flickerdart]

You might as well ask: how does a creature that does not breathe speak or say a verbal component? They just do.
Actually, mute creatures are incapable of using verbal component spells unless they take a feat such as Surrogate Spellcasting.

The real question is - what are the mechanics by which a non-breathing creature speaks? Do they still expel air? I would think that fleshy undead do, since they have no reason not to use their old organs, but skeletal or ghostly undead have nothing to expel air with. Skeletons don't talk, but ghosts do (although a ghost doesn't care about underwater since it's incorporeal). Do bone creatures talk? The template's description mentions bone sorcerers and makes no mention of them losing speech. If this type of undead gains the ability to speak without lungs, can liches and vampires also do so?

[Zanos]

Actually, mute creatures are incapable of using verbal component spells unless they take a feat such as Surrogate Spellcasting.

The real question is - what are the mechanics by which a non-breathing creature speaks? Do they still expel air? I would think that fleshy undead do, since they have no reason not to use their old organs, but skeletal or ghostly undead have nothing to expel air with. Skeletons don't talk, but ghosts do (although a ghost doesn't care about underwater since it's incorporeal). Do bone creatures talk? The template's description mentions bone sorcerers and makes no mention of them losing speech. If this type of undead gains the ability to speak without lungs, can liches and vampires also do so?
I was always under the impression that the lungs of "fleshy" undead were still non-functional and decayed, and that they spoke the same way they were capable of moving without having functional muscles. A (negative energy) wizard did it.

Vampires might be a weird corner case.

[Alex12]

I was always under the impression that the lungs of "fleshy" undead were still non-functional and decayed, and that they spoke the same way they were capable of moving without having functional muscles. A (negative energy) wizard did it.

Vampires might be a weird corner case.

Necropolitans also have that weird negative energy metabolism thing where they get natural healing, so I think you could make the argument that their bodies and organs at least sort of work, rather than running purely on negative energy.

[sideswipe]

lets take the example of truenamers. yes its a different type of magic, but there is a very nice rule about not being able to take as a truenamer.
essentially and paraphrasing, the universe knows what you are saying. you don't need to be able to hear yourself.
the DC of the check increases, but the utterance works absolutely fine.

so it is safe to assume they would be able to work, at least to an extent, possibly a concentration check to stay focused underwater (DC15) or lose the spell.
that would be a nice rule to use.
proven wrong on the penalty, there is a small chance of failure. but the point stands, that the universe hears you regardless, so its safe to say that the winds of magic would hear your verbal components fine.

[Alex12]

lets take the example of truenamers. yes its a different type of magic, but there is a very nice rule about not being able to take as a truenamer.
essentially and paraphrasing, the universe knows what you are saying. you don't need to be able to hear yourself.
the DC of the check increases, but the utterance works absolutely fine.

so it is safe to assume they would be able to work, at least to an extent, possibly a concentration check to stay focused underwater (DC15) or lose the spell.
that would be a nice rule to use.

Actually, for truenaming, if you're in an area of magical silence, you have a 20% chance of failing because you can't hear yourself speak and thus make sure you're pronouncing it properly.

I'm not sure why you'd need a separate Concentration check to stay focused underwater, at least not unless you're swimming or something. If you're just standing on the bottom and not being attacked or something else distracting, I'd think you'd be fine.