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cosmonuts
2014-06-24, 06:49 PM
I want to compile a list of the most powerful creatures of each CR from (less than) 1 to 30+. For calling, DM challenge design, etc.

Please include source. Format will be <CR>: <CreatureName1><Source1>, <CreatureName2><Source2>, ...

<1: OrcMM, SkiuridMM4
1: Leech SwarmSW, PseudodragonMM
2: FleshrakerMM3
3: AllipMM, Mirror MephitEDP, Monstrous CrabOnline, RunehoundMM3, Rust MonsterMM
4: HammerclawSW, Spectral LyristLM, Wyrmling Pyroclastic DragonDr
5:
6:
7:
8:
9:
10:11:
12:
13:
14:
15:
16:
17:
18:
19:
20:21:
22:
23:
24:
25:
26:
27:
28:
29:
30:
30+:

cosmonuts
2014-06-24, 06:52 PM
Wow, never mind, I found this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?315230-The-most-unbalanced-monsters-for-each-CR-up-to-20-%28or-so%29). It has a lot of blank spots, though.

Rubik
2014-06-24, 06:52 PM
Would Pun Pun count for CR 1?

Zanos
2014-06-24, 06:54 PM
Monstrous Crab (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040221a) for Allip (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Allip) for CR 3. The Allip because at level 3 it's possible nobody even has a magic weapon, and the crab because...it's That Damned Crab.

CR 8, Drowned, MMIII Pg. 46. Drowning Aura is the core here. Decent stealth skill doesn't hurt either.
CR 9, Adamantine Horror, MMII. At-Will 9th level SLAs.

EDIT: Oh yeah, someone did do this already.

cosmonuts
2014-06-24, 06:54 PM
Would Pun Pun countj for CR 1?

No. Technically there's nothing barring Pun-Pun, but he's the trivial solution to most questions regarding "what is the most powerful X".

Let's leave class levels out of it.

Regissoma
2014-06-24, 06:56 PM
Nooooo :eek: that crab... the horror... such painful memories.

Rubik
2014-06-24, 07:01 PM
The various hydras are seriously nasty melee beasts, as are cave trolls.

How about cave troll were-dire-tardigrades?

Brookshw
2014-06-24, 07:21 PM
Wow, never mind, I found this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?315230-The-most-unbalanced-monsters-for-each-CR-up-to-20-%28or-so%29). It has a lot of blank spots, though.

Heh, I was about to link that for you but you found it first.

137beth
2014-06-24, 08:07 PM
Omnielemental (MMIII) is listed in that other thread as a candidate for CR 15, but I don't see what is so dangerous about it? None of the normal (MMI) elementals (including the ones it splits into upon death) are particularly tough for their level, and the omnielemental is an even higher CR without much gained compared to its MMI counterparts. Could someone please explain what I'm missing about it?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2014-06-24, 09:10 PM
CR 1: Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold Dracolich Warrior 1 with Epic Toughness twice and three natural attacks (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a). (Races of the Dragon, Draconomicon, ELH + Draconomicon ruling)
CR 5: Boneclaw (MM3)
CR 7: Dragonkin (Draconomicon) Sorcerer 8
CR 8: Drowned (MM3)

EDIT didn't see this before posting, leaving it up though.

Let's leave class levels out of it.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2014-06-24, 09:22 PM
Steel Dragons of various ages could fill up many of your slots. A vanilla adult steel dragon gets 5th level spells and SR 36 (against 4th level or lower spells) at CR 8. Add in loredrake and spellhoarding, and that CR 8 creature is casting 7th level spells. An Old Loredrake Spellhoarding Steel Dragon is a CR 12 creature that casts as a 17th level wizard. That's right, 9ths at CR 12.

Xaroth
2014-06-24, 09:59 PM
19: Concordant KillerMM4

Zanos
2014-06-24, 10:11 PM
Steel Dragons of various ages could fill up many of your slots. A vanilla adult steel dragon gets 5th level spells and SR 36 (against 4th level or lower spells) at CR 8. Add in loredrake and spellhoarding, and that CR 8 creature is casting 7th level spells. An Old Loredrake Spellhoarding Steel Dragon is a CR 12 creature that casts as a 17th level wizard. That's right, 9ths at CR 12.
I feel like applying templates and pseudo-templates sort of defeats the purpose of the exercise. There are creatures for most CRs who are broken as printed. It's pretty easy to build something broken for any CR.

Steel dragons are a pretty egregious offender, though. A very young and young steel dragon are both CR 4 despite the fact that the young one has two more sorcerer levels and three more hit dice. A great wyrm is CR 18 and casts as a sorcerer 21, letting it toss epic spells on you before epic CRs(!!!!). And it has 36 dragon RHD, the best in the game. Most of the higher age categories are broken as well.

Snowbluff
2014-06-24, 11:33 PM
CR 1: Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold Dracolich Warrior 1 with Epic Toughness twice and three natural attacks (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a). (Races of the Dragon, Draconomicon, ELH + Draconomicon ruling)

Or you could have the 8th cleric level.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2014-06-25, 03:03 AM
19: Concordant KillerMM4I'm going to need some convincing here. If he's up against a level 19 party, the tactics listed in the book (greater invis ---> Blasphemy or the like) aren't going to work. The combat stats are reasonable, but nothing outside the realm of core outsiders of lesser CR (Marilith, Planetar). Forcecage and quickened dispel magic are nice, but level 19 parties are going to have ways to solve those issues. Then again the previous thread had the Marruspawn Abomination, which while nice was also... tepid. You really run out of options for OP stuff once the PCs get 9th level spells, except for the whole epic spellcasting steel dragon at CR 18...
I feel like applying templates and pseudo-templates sort of defeats the purpose of the exercise. There are creatures for most CRs who are broken as printed. It's pretty easy to build something broken for any CR.

Steel dragons are a pretty egregious offender, though. A very young and young steel dragon are both CR 4 despite the fact that the young one has two more sorcerer levels and three more hit dice. A great wyrm is CR 18 and casts as a sorcerer 21, letting it toss epic spells on you before epic CRs(!!!!). And it has 36 dragon RHD, the best in the game. Most of the higher age categories are broken as well.You pretty much crafted my reply for me; the templates are icing on the overpowered cake.

nedz
2014-06-25, 03:36 AM
<all> Humans, with class levels obviously

Applejaxc
2014-06-25, 04:02 AM
The MM has one of the most underused and underutilized monsters of all times: The Choker. It's an easy way to introduce Aberrations at a low level, and they're creepy. What's really special about them, though, is they're one of the easiest "Monsters" to throw in a dungeon that doesn't require any combat. They're quiet, shadowy stalkers-of-all-things; they see and hear what goes on in a dungeon, and no one but the keen know they're there. That means if a player speaks the right language, has the right skill, and has the right bribe, they're invaluable sources of information; "What's in the next room?" "Who made all these zombies?" "Have you seen anyone solve this riddle?"

What's really great, is when you do 1 of 2 things:

Vampire Choker. Their "Quickness" ability means they can make a gaze attack and their full attack every round. They can summon wolves/bats/whatever when climb along the walls/roof to escape the PCs. They're already good at grappling, so it won't be hard to bite PCs.

Illithichoker. Although illithi-whatever is overdone, a illithichocker is awesome for all the reasons of the Vampire. They can use Cone of Confusion/other Sp or Psionic powers and make a full attack. They already have improved grapple and ninja skills, so they have no problem getting a PC's delicious brain out!

TSED
2014-06-25, 05:57 AM
Adamantine Horrors have at-will disintegration, Mordenkainen's Disjunction, and implosion AT WILL. What's the big deal? It's CR9.

That's right, it's a small construct that can destroy your magic items permanently and has multi-targeting SoDs (fort save DC24) at will. The party's response is... going to be insufficient and short-lived.

Applejaxc
2014-06-26, 01:36 AM
Omnielemental (MMIII) is listed in that other thread as a candidate for CR 15, but I don't see what is so dangerous about it?

1: Elemental resistance
2: The Omnielemental can rob a party of a lot of their Spells Per Day (abilities, magic items, whatever use-per-so-often limitations they have), then becomes 4 new monsters at full HP? A party that is mostly dependent on their spellcaster(s), or is otherwise unprepared to fight a prolonged battle (too many Maximized attacks) will find themselves ill-equipped to defeat what the OME becomes.

Xaroth
2014-06-26, 11:02 PM
I'm going to need some convincing here. If he's up against a level 19 party, the tactics listed in the book (greater invis ---> Blasphemy or the like) aren't going to work. The combat stats are reasonable, but nothing outside the realm of core outsiders of lesser CR (Marilith, Planetar). Forcecage and quickened dispel magic are nice, but level 19 parties are going to have ways to solve those issues. Then again the previous thread had the Marruspawn Abomination, which while nice was also... tepid. You really run out of options for OP stuff once the PCs get 9th level spells, except for the whole epic spellcasting steel dragon at CR 18...

Sorry, I was in a boss creation state of mind, ignore it. I was thinking a Concordant Killer with Warblade levels and Diamond Mind maneuvers because of its concentration stuff.

Kazyan
2014-06-26, 11:10 PM
The Hagunemnon--CR 29--can grab almost any combination of extraordinary abilities it wants on the fly, on a good chassis involving regeneration 50 bypassed by nothing. If the DM matches the optimization level of the PCs (please don't say an e.g. Twice Betrayer of Shar can kill one that picks things that are merely useful), it will obliterate them.