Help with Suggestions for a Party of Three Brothers

[Talionis]

I'm playing in a campaign with three brothers that are actually brothers and having a hard time finding character suggestions since they look to me to help flesh out their ideas. I don't need the best spells or highest spell casting, but I do want characters that present lots of neat options and are truly fun to play giving them lots of options to deal with problems and work together.

The campaign is low tier 3. <--
Race: Each Human

1. We are thinking the oldest brother enjoys teamwork, skill, stealth, utility, traps, and self defense. He would be more cerebral than physical in stats. More tricky than magical. If he has magic it should be more Defensive and/or Team Oriented.

2. The middle brother enjoys intelligent melee combat, nature, tinkering, making his own weapons, likes having dogs. Think mad hermit tinkerer who is secretly really wise and intelligent. Requires some interesting blend of nature and technology.

3. The youngest brother is physically strong, he trains dogs, he likes architecture, possibly some sort of stone manipulation. He should be physically adept. (I'm not sure if I want both of them training dogs)

I don't need them to meet every criteria given above. These are just good starting points. It would be nice if the three builds had some form of synergy. I'd love ideas.

[Lord_Jord]

1. Bard, possibly Cleric, or ranger. Craft (Trapmaking) is accessible by any class.
2. Artificer or rogue... Crossclass some handle animal or hire someone to train the dog(s). Not every pet is an animal companion.
3. Intelligent based dwarven fighter. Or go barb for more of an outdoorsy feel with handle animal as a class skill.
*Edited for easier reading

[Bakkan]

Oldest Brother screams "Factotum" at me. It's skill-based, it can be stealthy, it's only a little magical (and even that's fluffed at being more mimicry than sorcery), and depends only on Int.

Middle Brother could be a Warblade with nature skills. Maybe he could take Shape Soulmeld for some of the better Totemist melds <shameless self-plug for guide in my sig>.

Youngest Brother... I'm not sure. I don't know of many architecture-themed PC options in the books. Artificer is an option, though that runs afoul of your desire to keep things at a reasonable Tier and it requires a whole lot of bookkeeping. If knocking down architecture is good enough, a Dungeoncrasher Fighter certainly gives the "physically strong" flavor of the character.

[Vogonjeltz]

1. We are thinking the oldest brother enjoys teamwork, skill, stealth, utility, traps, and self defense. He would be more cerebral than physical in stats. More tricky than magical. If he has magic it should be more Defensive and/or Team Oriented.

Rogue.


2. The middle brother enjoys intelligent melee combat, nature, tinkering, making his own weapons, likes having dogs. Think mad hermit tinkerer who is secretly really wise and intelligent. Requires some interesting blend of nature and technology.

Ranger.


3. The youngest brother is physically strong, he trains dogs, he likes architecture, possibly some sort of stone manipulation. He should be physically adept. (I'm not sure if I want both of them training dogs)

Fighter.

As a means of explanation:

Rogues typically need to employ teamwork (flanking) to benefit from sneak attack, they have the most skill points per level of any class, hide/move silently as class skills, and are more than capable of building and using traps. Benefits significantly from physical stats, but does not require them. A clever rogue is fairly easy to assemble.

Rangers can do melee combat, they're nature oriented, they get an animal companion, and have the skills to make weapons. If not for the nature orientation, this would be an easy fit as Fighter as well, but you could always just provide a nature oriented backstory on a Fighter chassis.

Fighter for the last if only because there's no physically adept class that gets knowledge (architecture) as a class skill, so he'd have to go cross-class in it. The Fighter does however get handle animal, and craft skills which can work for the other points.

As 3 melee types they would certainly benefit from teamwork, and they'd likely be able to employ the teamwork abilities (PHB II).

[Talionis]

Lord Jord

I completely agree with you that one or either doesn't necessarily have to have an animal companion. They both separately wanted the same thing. Maybe they both will get it with that feat that isn't as good an Animal Companion... I'll look it up later.

1. I was considering Bard and still am. I didn't think about Cleric though and honestly that maybe a good choice.

2. I could see Artificer, i usually cringe at its mention since its such a powerful class, but it might fit. Not sure how I'd give it a natural bent? I don't think he'd think Rogue though, more Scout if anything...

3. Barbarian was sorta what I was thinking as a possibility. I'm trying to keep it Human so Dwarf is out, but I know we aren't sticklers for racial requirements to prestige classes.


Bakkan,

1. Factotum is definitely on the list. Font of Inspiration probably won't be allowed so it would have to work harder to do a lot.

2. I don't think the middle brother will do more than a splash of Warblade, but that splash might be really important to the build so thanks I wouldn't have originally thought that. Totemist is pretty cool, it might be funny for him to be a Totemist into Ironsoul Forgemaster since you think of Totemists as using Natural attacks.

3. Dungeon Crasher is a really good idea. I may read up on that.

Thank you both for your suggestions... I'll hit the books some tonight. More suggestions welcome.

[otakumick]

3 wizards, one thats constantly invisible, one that is always casting save or die... or no save just die... and a necromancer... Tale of the Three Brothers Reference... Ravenclaw represent.

Or the factotum, martial adept, possible dungeon crasher advice

[Twingunn]

I know it doesn't fit with what you asked for but I think it would be cool to see a crusader, a warblade and a sword sage in one party. They are brothers each taking their own path to martial perfection.

[WhamBamSam]

Brother 1:
Factotum 3/Swordsage 2/Trapsmith 3/Jade Phoenix Mage 3/Swordsage+9 (JPM 8/Swordsage +4 is also reasonable, though JPM only offering Devoted Spirit and Desert Wind is kind of a drag).
1. Factotum 1 - Able Learner, Darkstalker
2. Factotum 2
3. Factotum 3 - Combat Expertise
4. Swordsage 1
5. Swordsage 2
6. Trapsmith 1 - Improved Trip
7. Trapsmith 2
8. Trapsmith 3
9. Jade Phoenix Mage 1 - Adaptive Style
10. Jade Phoenix Mage 2
11. Jade Phoenix Mage 3
12. Swordsage 3 - Open Feat
13. Swordsage 4
14. Swordsage 5
15. Swordsage 6 - Open Feat
16. Swordsage 7
17. Swordsage 8
18. Swordsage 9 - Open Feat
19. Swordsage 10
20. Swordsage 11

The last three feats probably either go into Martial Study, or Shape Soulmeld (Mauling Gauntlets), Cobalt Expertise, and Bonus Essentia to jack up your trip checks.

Focus mostly on Setting Sun with a bit of stuff from Shadow Hand for stealth, Sudden Leap for mobility, Diamond Mind because duh, and either Desert Wind or Divine Spirit with the maneuvers you get through JPM). Find traps the enemy has set. Set traps for the enemy. Throw the enemy into said traps. Setting Sun also offers you a number of good counter maneuvers.

Brother 2 is problematic because crafting weapons that matter is difficult without casting. If you ignore the Dwarf requirement or make him adopted, then an AoO lockdown Totemist 2/Crusader 3/Ironsoul Forgemaster 10/Crusader +5 build wielding a Mouthpick Spiked Chain with a bite achieved through a soulmeld would work perfectly. Use the hands for claws and/or shields. If you're stuck with a T3 human, then maybe a Binder (they hit T2 with Zercyll, but other than that they're T3) with a Wild Cohort could fit the bill. Or a Warblade

For Brother 3, I'm going to echo the recommendation of Dungeoncrasher Fighter. Jump out after 2 or 6 levels and either go Totemist, Warblade, or Crusader the rest of the way. If you want something more esoteric, you can get yourself some manner of casting to put up walls to push people into (though the above Trapsmith build or the binder I suggested as a human option for Brother 2 at a high level could do that for him).

I'm not sure which level you want these guys at, but any of them should be playable from 1-20.

[Raezeman]

ok, first, how set are you on the all human thing? because with the combination of elfs and humans, and maybe them being only half-brothers, you can make them one human, one elf and one half-elf. Could be interesting.

Anyway, with them being 3 brothers, it could be nice flavour wise to not just have them classes that work well together, but actually give them builds that start very similar and then branch out into different things. This will cut down versatility in the group, especially at he lower levels, but gives nice themed groups. As you will get plenty of 'these 3 classes work well together and fit description' answers, i will focus on fluff based suggestions.


For example, all three brothers start out as monks (sound horrible i know, but bare with me), but then:
-one could see 'the divine light' and goes the sacred fist prestige class route (complete divine)
-one could see a similar 'divine light' and combines monk and paladin levels through the ascetic knight feat (complete adventurer)
-one could discover the pull of the arcane arts and goes the enlightened fist prestige class route (complete arcane), maybe with ascetic mage feat for stacking monk and sorcerer levels for various things and more
-one finds the appeal of nature, and combines monk and ranger level through the ascetic hunter feat (complete adventurer)
-one starts to love sneaking around, and combines monk and rogue levels through the ascetic rogue feat (complete adventurer)

There are more feats that stack aspects of 2 classes that could be interesting this way in complete adventurer and complete scoundrel, such as:
-daring outlaw (rogue and swashbuckler)
-daring warrior (rogue and fighter)
-swift hunter (ranger and scout)
-swift ambusher (rogue and scout)
[i can suggest some builds of some of these if you like the idea]
Also nothing wrong with some plain old multiclassing, as humans with any favored class can do this well (paladin rogue maybe: i smite you in your kidney!)



Other idea is have them all be clerics (horribly overpowered maybe, but bare with me) with different orientation, like
-first brother is buffer/healer cleric
-second brother is melee oriented cleric (ordained champion comes to mind)
-third brother is summoner based cleric
Or maybe similar, keeping a completely divine party but switching up with a paladin or favored soul could bring some versatility instead. (Paladin means easy access to bone knight prestige class)



Another idea that jumps to mind is 3 storm based builds that have nice flavour together
-stormsinger, prestige class for bards
-stormlord, prestige class for (melee-oriented) divine caster
-stormcaster, casting oriented prestige class for any type of caster
[little problem is that the stormlord must worship Talos, an evil god, but a DM could easily fix that]



Or how about you do something with the 4 elements. You can have there be a 4th brother in the story that is missing/died/... and each brother has some affinity with the four elements. The heritage feats from planar handbook come to mind, also
water:
-frost mage (frostburn)
-frozen berserker (frostburn)
-wavekeeper (stormwrack)
earth:
-earth dreamer
fire:
-dragonfire adept (dragon magic)
-blighter (complete divine, must be non-good)
air:
-skypledged (races of the wild [only for raptorans, but go go DM execptions!])

Each of the elements can also be approached with
-elemental savants (complete arcane)
-warmage choosing to aim at only one element (complete arcane)
-cleric of the appropriate domains
-the devotion feats
-dragon shamans
-any caster with a well chosen spell list
-probably lot's more things i can't recall at the moment

[Talionis]

Thank all of you for your help. If you have any advice of prestige classes I'd love to hear it.

1. I think I'm doing between 3-8 levels of Factotum. Is there a prestige class that might go with that? Factotum's tend to be hard to multiclass. I know people sometimes multiclass into Chameleon. Anything else though? Maybe something that would be team oriented?

2. This one, I'm having a really hard time with. Having both nature and being a crafter... I was thinking maybe Totemist/Beastmaster/Ironsoul Forgemaster. Forgemaster is a good crafter and it advances Totemist. That would be nature and tinkerer.

3. 6 Dungeoncrasher into what? Fighter levels are generally terrible. There must be some fun prestige classes. I guess I could go Dungeon Crasher 6/Warblade 14. That ends up with 9th level maneuvers. But I'd be happy to hear other synergies and ideas. I'm leaning now on looking at optimizing Binding, Halafax.

Aside, Wham Bam Sam... that was really cool seeing Jade Phoenix Mage advancing Trapsmith. I still may use that on the first brother its so cool. I may save it for something else. It makes me think that JPM might advance a prestige class with its own casting that is ten levels really well. Ideas are starting to brew! Thank you!


I really like the idea of a fourth half brother as the Big Bad... Not sure what I'll do for that... hmmm... Any ideas????

Thank you all again!

[otakumick]

Factotum goes well with warblade... though you definitely would want at least 3 levels of factotum...