Low level melee cleric

[SZ5000]

Hi,

First of all: Great Forum!!

I need some help on optimizing my character, a cleric at Level 2:
Ver 3.5
No limitations to optimizing so far.
Campaign is hack and slay oriented and will mainly take place in woods and plains.
A lot of small monsters and other stuff to slay or to sneak by, if they are too many...
Only 3 players, so the job includes melee. The other frontliner is a Monk (VoP). High stats, +13 to distribute with 3 odd numbers at max.

My ideas so far:
Human
Str: 18
Dex: 14 (strong advise from DM, in order to be able to move silently and hide)
Con: 12
Int: 11
Wis: 17
Cha: 17

Deity : Red Knight (FR), Planning, War, Knowledge

Level 1: Cloistered Cleric (I need the skill points for move silently and hide)
extend spell, weapon focus longsword, persistent spell, DMM (persistent spell)
ACF: rebuke dragons

Level 2: Cleric (or Fighter)

Level 3: Cloistered Cleric
Extra turning

Questions:
- Can I mix CC and normal cleric? This has been discussed before, but with a reasonable backround it should be possible, I think...
- I should have 2*10=20 turn/rebuke attempts at Level 3, 22 at Level 4 with CHA 18, right? (no fighter in level 2)
- I am not sure, how fast we will be advancing in levels after level 6. So is this a reasonable build, for a character below level 7?
- the first idea was to drop CHA (and DMM) and take two weapon fighting with high DEX (together with some fighter Feats). Is this any better for a low level melee cleric, that is supposed to be a bit stealthy?

Thanks

[sideswipe]

knowledge domain ability trade for knowledge devotion. add planes, nature, local or dungeoneering to your arcana and religion to get bonuses to hit and damage against said types.

the knowledge domain ability just gives you all knowledge skills as class skills but not a lot to do with them. this trades that for combat bonuses.

either that or keep all of the knowledges and replace weapon focus with the feat knowledge devotion. it gives (with a knowledge check) up to +5 to hit and +5 damage with a minimum of +1 to hit and +1 damage with a single feat rather then just a +1 to hit.
i would also take the trait focused for +1 to all knowledges and -1 to spot and listen.

this means that at level 1 with no other modifiers and 4 ranks in the relevant knowledges. you have a +5, with the roll you have a 50/50 chance of +1 or +2 to your attack, just having 1 rank in each means you have a 2/3 chance of a +1 and 1/3 chance of a +2. much better than weapon focus every time.

[Eldariel]

There's no reason to mix Cloistered Cleric and Cleric. Cloistered Cleric is largely better and it becomes academical on level 7 with Divine Power anyways. Level 2 gets you BAB in Cloistered Cleric anyways so I see 0 reason to take normal Cleric. Also, Trickery Domain would get you Hide in class. Move Silently is trickier. Ruathar on level 6 would work but that's a bit away and makes life harder on the first few levels. Strongly suggest Able Learner either way to conserve skillpoints if you want to be a skilled Cleric.

[SZ5000]

Thanks for the replies.

I will take knowledge devotion at level 2.

2 Levels CC makes sense, I'm just a bit worried about my AC without a shield. Heavy armor is a bad choice, while sneaking is important in the campaigne. And I need a second class to double my turning pool.

I'm still thinking about dropping persistent spell and DMM for some more melee oriented feats. If. I stay with the concept, I should probably have CHA 18 instead of STR. This would Five me 7 turnings from the start...

[sideswipe]

honestly, as a cleric you won't sneak past anything. not unless you gain invisibility from something, (potion?)

i would put your 14 into charisma for extra turnings to keep your DMM persist to have 1-2 persisted a day. you can then persist things like bulls strength blah blah, or lesser vigor to give free healing all day. win combat, wait a few mins, and you are healed.

i am not the one to ask about the most optimum spell to persist. but if you have only 3 players and one is playing a commoner (monk) then you need all the help you can get. hopefully the other player is a druid or a wizard....

monks may be able to sneak, but they are not very good at it and they need at least 4 stats out of 6 to be brilliant or they really are not playable.
getting rid of the whole thing of your party (who so far is picking classes not based on stealth) wanting to sneak, will mean that you can focus on combat and other tactics.

edit - (14 into charisma and that 17 from cha into con.)

[Eldariel]

You can't really get usable heavy armor early anyways. Chain Shirt will do for the first level provided you can afford it. Monk's Belt would eventually solve the armor question alongside certain spells, but those are a bit into the game (aside from Mage Armor, which would be available as a Domain spell for certain Domains). Note that Extra Turning gets you an extra Persistent Spell anyways. Two get you 14 Turnings with 6 + 4 + 4 or 16 Charisma, so that's what I'd go for. Double that for 4 Persistent Spells and once you get a Lesser Rod of Extend Spell (or just use the feat), you're looking at 8 which should be more than enough to last you a while.

For now, it's worth looking into spells to Persist early on for the best numerical benefit. Level 1 spell bonuses start off rather low so don't expect miracles yet but they'll help you along.

[Slipperychicken]

I'd consider doing something about that Con score, because 12 is dangerously low for a d8 frontliner. I'd swap it with Dex, because the ability to take hits is way more valuable than +1 to stealth and initiative.

For stealthiness, you can just persist greater invisibility or silence or something later on.

As for your weapon, I would consider a Longspear, because reach will serve you well, especially at low levels (AoOs will be very nice against mobs). It can double as a very sharp 10ft pole. If someone gets too close and you can't 5ft back (you're apparently going to be in open plains, so this won't be such an issue), you can just punch them with your gauntlet or draw your longsword.

[SZ5000]

Thanks for the suggestions, I'm still thinking about how to get more turning pools on low levels. Sacred Exorcist is ecl 7, so I'm not sure if we are getting this far. Therefore new idea:

1. Level, Human, Cloistered Cleric (Red Knight)
Feats: extend spell, persistent spell, DMM (persistent spell), weapon focus (long sword)
ACF: Rebuke dragons

2. Level Dread Necromancer (martial weapon: Longbow)
Feats: Knowledge Devotion (for domain)

CHA: 18

This should lead me to 4+3 attempts of rebuke dragons and 4+3 attempts of rebuke undead => 14 attempts = 2 persistent spells. This somehow seems to be the only way to make good use of DMM at early levels - investing 2 feats (+1 at level 3) and one character level (for multiclassing) for just 1 persistent spell, or 2 at level 3 with another feat looks too expensive.:smallconfused:

At level 3 (CC lvl2) I will take extra turning which will lead me to 2*(4+3+4)=22 attempts => 3 persistent spells. :smallcool:
If accepted by DM I may go for a dip in regular cleric at level 6 or so. This could provide me with the third pool of (turn undead) attempts.
... all without night sticks or anything ... unfortuneatly there is no deity with undeath and planning domain ...

Concering melee and playing a cleric in general, dropping DEX is a very vaild advice. I hope I'm gonna be able to convice my DM ...:smallbiggrin:

Instead of Red Knight, it may be a good idea to go for Amaunator and take the time domain - persistent haste would be great.