How would this work?

[atemu1234]

If we gave truenamers the casting capabilities, on level, of a wizard?

[Alex12]

If we gave truenamers the casting capabilities, on level, of a wizard?

The Truenamer chassis is actually pretty good for a sage-type person. Those Knowledge skill boosters are quite good (4 iterations of a +3 bonus to Knowledge, and it's stackable? I can't think of anything, offhand, that can match that).

Were you talking about replacing truespeech entirely, or just adding on wizard casting. Because Truenamers have a bunch of class features that become useless if you're just replacing it. Admittedly, they're not much use even if you're keeping Truespeech.

[sideswipe]

i think allowing them access to any wizard spells that do not have material components or xp components could give the class a small boost. and only in line with the lexicon levels (so highest lexicon level you can cast in any lexicon being the highest wizard spell with no material components you can learn) or even spells with negligible components but no costly ones or xp. in that case i love the idea of an optimised Truenamer with 80+ in the skill at about level 6 just saying "fireball, fireball, fireball, fireball, fireball, fireball, fireball, ..... you get the picture.

[atemu1234]

The Truenamer chassis is actually pretty good for a sage-type person. Those Knowledge skill boosters are quite good (4 iterations of a +3 bonus to Knowledge, and it's stackable? I can't think of anything, offhand, that can match that).

Were you talking about replacing truespeech entirely, or just adding on wizard casting. Because Truenamers have a bunch of class features that become useless if you're just replacing it. Admittedly, they're not much use even if you're keeping Truespeech.

My first thought was honestly spells that boost skill checks. I thought about this after reading Encyclopedia Arcane - Demonology. They had class features that had similar problems, but were fixed by also staying full casters. This is part of a larger effort of mine to make that book work with Truenaming and rules for possession given in the Fiendish Codex.

[Grod_The_Giant]

If we gave truenamers the casting capabilities, on level, of a wizard?
They'd be wizards with a handful of almost-useless class features? What exactly do you mean by "casting capabilities on level of a wizard?"

[atemu1234]

They'd be wizards with a handful of almost-useless class features? What exactly do you mean by "casting capabilities on level of a wizard?"

It means that at each level gain spells per day as if they were a wizard of that level, as well as drawing from the wizard/sorcerer spell list.

[sideswipe]

It means that at each level gain spells per day as if they were a wizard of that level, as well as drawing from the wizard/sorcerer spell list.

why would you not just play wizard?

if what you mean is truenamers get truenamer casting AND wizard casting then it might contend. but with alternate class features then you would still play wizard.

people play truenamer to be different, not powerful.

[atemu1234]

why would you not just play wizard?

if what you mean is truenamers get truenamer casting AND wizard casting then it might contend. but with alternate class features then you would still play wizard.

people play truenamer to be different, not powerful.

That's what I mean. I don't want it to be too overpowered, but I don't think that's really a possibility with truenamers. Honestly I could do this, bump them up to a D12 hit die and they would still probably be sub-standard.

[eggynack]

That's what I mean. I don't want it to be too overpowered, but I don't think that's really a possibility with truenamers. Honestly I could do this, bump them up to a D12 hit die and they would still probably be sub-standard.
It sounds like you're basically gestalting wizard and truenamer. That's obviously going to be about as overpowered as a wizard, which is pretty overpowered.

[sideswipe]

That's what I mean. I don't want it to be too overpowered, but I don't think that's really a possibility with truenamers. Honestly I could do this, bump them up to a D12 hit die and they would still probably be sub-standard.

honestly they are fine the way they are. enough cheese makes them fine.... and level 20 is basicly gate at will :smallbiggrin:

[atemu1234]

It sounds like you're basically gestalting wizard and truenamer. That's obviously going to be about as overpowered as a wizard, which is pretty overpowered.

Nah, not gestalt because they don't get the familiar or the bonus feats.

[eggynack]

Nah, not gestalt because they don't get the familiar or the bonus feats.
Well, sure, but they get wizard casting, which is most of it. You're basically saying, "Hey, what if I gave commoners all of the powers of a wizard. Would that be any good?" It just feels a bit pointless, though there is admittedly a bit of synergy between utterances and casting.

[atemu1234]

Well, sure, but they get wizard casting, which is most of it. You're basically saying, "Hey, what if I gave commoners all of the powers of a wizard. Would that be any good?" It just feels a bit pointless, though there is admittedly a bit of synergy between utterances and casting.

I'm more worried about it being too overpowered; I'm basing this off of Demonology stuff, so that it would make sense in-universe as being its less-demented cousin.

[eggynack]

I'm more worried about it being too overpowered; I'm basing this off of Demonology stuff, so that it would make sense in-universe as being its less-demented cousin.
It is, as I noted, about as overpowered as a wizard is, for the most part. If a wizard would be overpowered in your game, then this also is, and if it wouldn't be, then it probably isn't. I suspect that this would be a bit more powerful, but not to a significant degree.

[atemu1234]

It is, as I noted, about as overpowered as a wizard is, for the most part. If a wizard would be overpowered in your game, then this also is, and if it wouldn't be, then it probably isn't. I suspect that this would be a bit more powerful, but not to a significant degree.

Okay, and what would remedy this? Is there anything I could remove from it to make it about the same?

[Hiro Protagonest]

Guys, guys, calm down. He's not that powerful. He doesn't have a familiar.

[atemu1234]

Guys, guys, calm down. He's not that powerful. He doesn't have a familiar.

Or bonus feats. Or, come to think of it, specialization.

[eggynack]

Okay, and what would remedy this? Is there anything I could remove from it to make it about the same?
I'm not really sure, as it's hard to perfectly gauge the power level here. I'm not even sure that this is necessarily better, as you gain a bunch of crap-spells, but lose some quantity of normal spells/day. It doesn't really matter much though, as this shouldn't be either over or underpowered in a game where wizards are safe.