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View Full Version : Is it unbalancing to combine UMD and UPD?



Hamster_Ninja
2007-02-25, 06:54 PM
UMD is a must-have for nearly any skill monkey, and I was wondering if it would unbalance the game to combine Use Magic Device and Use Psionic Device into one device using skill?
This comes mostly as a fellow player in a game of mine is a Warlock, and since most of their good abilties (Deceive Item and Imbue Item) depend on their usage of this skill, and with their 2+Int skill points forcing them to spend points of another skill to be able to use the occasional Psionic item (if you even allow them to use it with their abilities at all) is pretty hard on an already weak class.
And on the flavor side of things, it seems kind of strange to require different training to be able to activate these different items. Maybe if Psionics and Magics were vastly seperated in your campaign world a different skill could be argued for, but you could always just apply circumstance modifiers (if Psionics is much rarer, you could have the DCs be a few points higher, or if their more common, lower). So would it signifigantly unbalance anything to combine the two skills?

Solaris
2007-02-25, 06:57 PM
I'd combine them into one unhallowed skill, but that's just me and my sneaky backhanded ways of trying to turn psionics into the third type of magic. Divine is magic of the gods, arcane is magic of the world, and psionic is magic of the mind.
Balance-wise, it seems quite reasonable, but I've never run a game where a character has taken ranks in those skills.

Quietus
2007-02-25, 08:09 PM
If you use those skills, I'd combine them into one thing, all a sort of "Magic". However, I don't allow the use of Use Magic Device in my games, as I don't feel it's appropriate for skillmonkeys to not only be effective scouts/theives/pickpockets/etc, plus good in combat when they can get flanking, and then add spellcasting to their repertoire. It's just ... unreasonable.

oriong
2007-02-25, 08:12 PM
It depends entirely on if you use 'psionics and magic is different'. If they are treated the same then UMD and UPD are already identical, if they are treated differently then they are seperate skills.

It would certainly not be unbalanced unless you had a vast abundance of magical and psionic gear, typically psionic stuff is much less common.

joe
2007-02-25, 08:19 PM
In my campaign, UMD and UPD are combined and it really hasn't done anything to unbalance it (though I think this is because psionics are uncommon firstly and secondly because none of the party has taken UMD.)

Additionally I combine Spellcraft and Psicraft, which has come up a but more often, but still hasn't seemed to break the campaign any.

Caelestion
2007-02-27, 08:58 AM
In Faerűn, it is explicitly stated that psionics is magic, so I make Know: Arcana, Spellcraft and UMD pull double duty as regards to psionics.

Person_Man
2007-02-27, 09:52 AM
In the campaigns I DM, psionics is just another form of magic. I combine UPD into UMD, Psicraft into Spellcraft, and Knowledge (Psionics) into Knowledge (Arcana). I also give Monks Autohypnosis as a class Skill.

I personally find that seperating psionics and magic only makes sense if you use a lot of psionics AND magic. If your campaign only occasionally uses one or the other (or is just a low magic and low psionics campaign) then seperating them just screws the PCs who invest in the under utilized Skills/powers/spells etc.

Amphimir Míriel
2007-02-27, 10:35 AM
Divine is magic of the gods, arcane is magic of the world, and psionic is magic of the mind.

That's exactly how I run it in my campaign and it works nicely...


In the campaigns I DM, psionics is just another form of magic. I combine UPD into UMD, Psicraft into Spellcraft, and Knowledge (Psionics) into Knowledge (Arcana). I also give Monks Autohypnosis as a class Skill.


Good Idea! I think Im going to do that, although I may increase the difficulties a bit if someone is using Spellcraft to identify a psionic power or if someone is using Use Psionic Device to use a wand of magic missile, for example.

PinkysBrain
2007-02-27, 10:38 AM
If you use those skills, I'd combine them into one thing, all a sort of "Magic". However, I don't allow the use of Use Magic Device in my games, as I don't feel it's appropriate for skillmonkeys to not only be effective scouts/theives/pickpockets/etc, plus good in combat when they can get flanking, and then add spellcasting to their repertoire. It's just ... unreasonable.
So do you remove knock and detect traps too from the spellcasters? (By the same token righteous might, divine power etc should also be removed of course.)

Anyway, back to the topic ... my DM allowed it, but he used partial transparancy. Spellcraft/Psicraft, UMD/UPD, ML/CL checks for penetrating SR/PR etc all took a -4 penalty when crossing boundaries.

Caelestion
2007-02-27, 10:39 AM
I recently told a cleric character (who had huge stats and who was already great in combat) not to take Divine Power otherwise I would inflict it on him :)

okpokalypse
2007-02-27, 10:53 AM
I actually do something a little different...

Anywhere there's a distinction between Divine and Arcane, I keep Psionics separate. So Knowledge (Arcane), Knowledge (Divine) and Knowledge (Psionics) are all separate skills.

When there's no distinction, I let one work for tho other but with a small modification. For example:

Psi-Craft, when used in place of Spell-Craft, makes checks at -5.
Spell-Craft, when used in place of Psi-Craft, makes checks at -5.

Same thing for PR / SR. A creature with a 25 SR effectively has a 20 PR, and vice versa. Psionic Dispels are at -5 on checks vs. Non-Psionic effects, etc...

It gives a little weight to the strength of knowing a different discipline.

PinkysBrain
2007-02-27, 11:00 AM
Okpokalypse, you failed to mention what you do with UMD/UPD though :)