[3.5] Stacking Fighter Levels.

[Yael]

So, I want to determine whether I can take fighter feats stacking variants of fighter (say, the ones from DR#310?)

Like, taking on Bodyguard and Shield Bearer to create a Braum (http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/braum/)-like character? I know that this works, but what about determining the EFL (Effective Fighter Level, joke up) for some fighter feats?

[Khedrac]

OK, I don't have Dragon to have those specific examples but I can help in general.

There are three basic ways classes get modified:

1) Alternative Class Features (ACFs)
2) Substitution Levels (SLs)
3) Variant Classes (VCs)

Alternative Class Features are very specific in that they swap ability X for ability Y.
This means you can only take them if you have ability X - once swapped out for ability Y it cannot be swapped out again for ability Z.
These also only apply to the class named - you can only take ACFs if you have levels in the actual class - in this case Fighter.
E.g. A fighter with the Dungeoncrasher ACF is still a fighter.

Substitution Levels are a little more complex, they replace the class abilities at one specified level for new ones.
They count as levels in the same base class, and again they can only be taken if you are taking the class (again here Fighter).
Note, you do not need to take all of them, you can ignore the first two and only take the 3rd if you so desire (when you reach the appropriate level).
E.g. a Dwarf with the Dwarf Fighter SL at 1st who then took 4 more levels of Fighter is still a Fighter 5.
E.g. a Dwarf fighter cannot take both Dungeoncrasher and the the 2nd level Fighter SL - they no longer have the bonus feat at 2nd level to trade for Dungeoncrasher.

Variant Classes are just that - a different class.
You cannot take ACFs or SLs with variant classes unless the DM explicitly approves/invents them - it's a different class.
If you take both the variant and the normal class (not sure if that's usually allowed) the levels do not stack for anything - they are different classes (unless the variant has a specific exception to this in its description).
E.g. Thug (fighter variant) - it's a different class. A Fighter 2/Thug 2 is not a Fighter 4 for any purposes.
Exception: if you take Sneak Attack Thug and Sneak Attack Fighter (the variant explicitly states you can take it for Thugs as well as Fighters) then the Sneak Attack will stack because that's in the wording of Sneak Attack, you still are not a fighter 4 for Weapon Specialisation.

I hope this helps.

[Yael]

I hope this helps.

Yes, this helps.

Thank you.

[Sir Chuckles]

To give a direct answer from Dragon #310:

All variants function identically to the standard
fighter except where listed below. As these are all
still fighters, a character can not take levels in two or
more variants.

You cannot be Targeteer 1/Exoticist 1. As much as we would all love that many Exotic Weapon Prof for free.

[Doc_Maynot]

No, you can't with specialist fighters, they specifically don't let you multiclass with base fighter or another specialist.

These classes are to fighter what specialist wizards are to the wizard core class, and as such, they share some of the same restrictions specialist wizards face. A character can choose to take the fighter class or a specialist fighter class, but once the choice is made the character can't multiclass into the fighter class or a different specialist fighter class.

At the same time as Thug and other variant fighters from other sources may or may not be possible. Either due to the Specialist Fighter ruling or due to the generic variant class rules.


Multiclassing between variants of the same class is a tricky subject. In cases where a single class offers a variety of paths (such as the totem barbarian or the monk fighting styles), the easiest solution is simply to bar multiclassing between different versions of the same class (just as a character can't multiclass between different versions of specialist wizards). For variants that are wholly separate from the character class—such as the bardic sage or the urban ranger—multiclassing, even into multiple variants of the same class, is probably okay. Identical class features should stack if gained from multiple versions of the same class (except for spellcasting, which is always separate).

[Yael]

To give a direct answer from Dragon #310:


You cannot be Targeteer 1/Exoticist 1. As much as we would all love that many Exotic Weapon Prof for free.

Ooooooooh, seems legit.

[animewatcha]

The idea with combining variants and what not is whether or not you can pay price x to gain ability Y. Like a dungeoncrasher can gain the zhentarim fighter stuff, but not thug.

Looking at the bodyguard and shield-bearer. Aside from the bonus feat listings ( early for 3.5e so you can add to it with most WOTC sterf ), the 'price' paid looks to be some of the fighter class skills on both ends. The price cannot be 'paid twice' so you can't have them together.

Looking at both variants. Mechanically, bodyguard is more of the active type you are looking for ( you can gain these through feats and martial stances somehow ask other people more familiar with Tome of battle about this ) while the shield bearer is more 'passive'. The bonus feats are better spent on feats rather than the 'bonus abilities'.

[ShurikVch]

These classes are to fighter what specialist wizards are to the wizard core class, and as such, they share some of the same restrictions specialist wizards face. A character can choose to take the fighter class or a specialist fighter class, but once the choice is made the character can't multiclass into the fighter class or a different specialist fighter class. But you can multiclass between different specialist wizards! Spellcasting doesn't stack, but otherwise it's completely legal.
(I know about one 8th level character, who taken Abjurer 1/Conjurer 1/Diviner 1/Enchanter 1/Evoker 1/Illusionist 1/Necromancer 1/Transmuter 1, dunno about ACFs)

[Doc_Maynot]

But you can multiclass between different specialist wizards! Spellcasting doesn't stack, but otherwise it's completely legal.
(I know about one 8th level character, who taken Abjurer 1/Conjurer 1/Diviner 1/Enchanter 1/Evoker 1/Illusionist 1/Necromancer 1/Transmuter 1, dunno about ACFs)

Let me just requote that second passage and add some emphasis to the relevant line.


Multiclassing between variants of the same class is a tricky subject. In cases where a single class offers a variety of paths (such as the totem barbarian or the monk fighting styles), the easiest solution is simply to bar multiclassing between different versions of the same class (just as a character can't multiclass between different versions of specialist wizards). For variants that are wholly separate from the character class—such as the bardic sage or the urban ranger—multiclassing, even into multiple variants of the same class, is probably okay. Identical class features should stack if gained from multiple versions of the same class (except for spellcasting, which is always separate).