[3.5] Deadly Rites: The Embalmer Profession OR The cost of keeping the dead.

[Corronchilejano]

So, I have a character that likes killing people (and other assorted living creatures), stuffing their bodies and creating marionettes with them. Now, we ran into a problem: My character would love to preserve the bodies as much as possible, and for this I added Profession (Embalmer). The problem is, there's no way for me to know the price of embalming fluids and the like that I would need in order to preserve the people I kill. The DM has asked me to at least set the prices per body size and type so I can keep some "ingredients" at hand whenever I need to work on the field.

I looked in the Arms & Equipment guide and indeed the embalmer is there, but only his daily wage is included and it specifically states that the price does not include the materials for him to work with.

Help me creatures in the playground, does anyone know where I can find information about a 3.5E adaptation of the embalmber profession? Has anyone already thought about rules for this process?

[Irk]

The obvious answer is the spell Gentle Repose, but I don;t think that's what you're looking for.
Modern embalming, according to Wikipedia, is performed with Formaldehyde. Formaldehyde is a type of Organic Compound called an Aldehyde. Since I don't know much about this, I thought that maybe something could be done with Minor Creation, but I guess not. Personally, I would make it a Craft(alchemy) check, amybe DC 20-25 for something that can preserve a body, perhaps a chemical that is injected into the living creature, which causes them to suffer a painful death before being preserved in the horror of their last moment.
Ooh! What about freezing them? Actually, no, they're supposed to be puppets, that won't work.
Maybe you could research a better version of Preserve Organ?

I don;t know, I would just set a DC for craft and go from there, or if you're a spellcaster, research better Preserve Organ, or just cast Gentle Repose. Or try to convince your DM that Minor Creation can create nonliving Organic Compounds. Someone more scientifically knowledgable will say that would be game-breaking. Just some ideas.

[Corronchilejano]

The obvious answer is the spell Gentle Repose, but I don;t think that's what you're looking for.
No spellcasting. I'm looking for something the common expert would be able to do.


Personally, I would make it a Craft(alchemy) check, amybe DC 20-25 for something that can preserve a body, perhaps a chemical that is injected into the living creature, which causes them to suffer a painful death before being preserved in the horror of their last moment.
A 20 DC is already something the common expert wouldn't be able to do without screwing up... although, that also means that only important bodies would be preserved because they'd use masterwork tools to do it... ? Then again, there would really be no embalming trade, because a lvl 1 character would STILL be screwing up (and I mean completely) at least 45% of all embalming jobs. That's a pretty high rate for a trade.


Just some ideas.
They're really appreciated. There's pretty much nill info on the subject, so we're basically making stuff up as we go along.

[Irk]

Actually, If you are going to focus on this with your character, you could have some sort of chemical lab where each step in the process is a different skill check These could be things like boiling or distilling, the end result being an embalming fluid. You could get try to steal better equipment (beakers, droppers, etc.) to give you higher bonuses on the craft checks.

Frostburn describes something called Snowflake Lichen, which freezes the body wherever it touches, so that could be a means of preservation, if you kept a farm of it.

You could also have masterwork tools be like the Egyptian Brain-Spoons, and just do a bunch of skill checks to remove organs, then sell them to spellcasters as material components (BoVD has rules for this, just make sure you keep them in an ice chest to preserve them if you decide to do so).

[Corronchilejano]

True, but again, the question here is: How much does all that cost? How does it vary with what I'm trying to embalm?

[Gildedragon]

Salting is a big part of ancient embalming practices, or dessication
As to the average expert not being able to do it.
Well, Roman era mumies spring to mind. Most were... I don't want to say 'poorly made' but... well, poorly made is how they were made. 1/3 of the raw materials ruined does sorta fit, with a pretty decent forgery check afterwards (sure, "leave it a bit wet, no one will notice until after it's been sealed in its sarcophagus." well, guess what: archaeologists notice!) anyway a DC 20 isn't unreasonable
10 from taking ten
+2 from tools
+2 per assistant aiding (making a DC 10 check, up to 2 or 3 assistants)
+4 ranks (it IS their livelyhood)
+2 base score (Intelligence modifier, not unreasonable... at the very least an Old undertaker)
gives us a 20-24 or higher.

[Corronchilejano]

Allright, so let's say the DC is right up the bat at 20 for human beings. I was thinking yesterday that whatever I end up doing has to include a set price against the creatures' HD (since much in 3.5E is compared to that), so I believe a flat 1gp per Hit Die with a size multiplier (x4 per size going up, x1/2 per size going down) would be enough. That'd assure that lowly peasants would have to bury their loved ones quickly before they begin to rot since embalming would be costly and at the same time make big, beautiful dead creatures harder to keep.

[Irk]

Allright, so let's say the DC is right up the bat at 20 for human beings. I was thinking yesterday that whatever I end up doing has to include a set price against the creatures' HD (since much in 3.5E is compared to that), so I believe a flat 1gp per Hit Die with a size multiplier (x4 per size going up, x1/2 per size going down) would be enough. That'd assure that lowly peasants would have to bury their loved ones quickly before they begin to rot since embalming would be costly and at the same time make big, beautiful dead creatures harder to keep.

Yeah, that sounds good. I like the bit of scaling it up per hit die, it reminds of various necromancy spells.

[PersonMan]

I'd make it per size, regardless of HD, myself. What would HD-scaling be like in-game? "Oh, he was a really good warrior, so it took a master emablmer to keep his corpse from rotting"?

It just seems like it'd have very silly and unusual results in-universe, to me.

[Corronchilejano]

I'd make it per size, regardless of HD, myself. What would HD-scaling be like in-game? "Oh, he was a really good warrior, so it took a master emablmer to keep his corpse from rotting"?

It just seems like it'd have very silly and unusual results in-universe, to me.

True... then how about the cost per HD if the creature was raised as an undead? That is, with no class levels, and in case it leaves it with no HD, then it gets to have 1 HD.

Also, I'm not sure how the DC would scale or how long would the process last. A few days, a few weeks?

[Psyren]

I'd make it per size, regardless of HD, myself. What would HD-scaling be like in-game? "Oh, he was a really good warrior, so it took a master emablmer to keep his corpse from rotting"?

That shouldn't be a concern actually. For example, if you raise a level 20 Human Fighter as a zombie, he loses all HD from class levels there too, so presumably they don't stay with the corpse. But it should be harder to preserve, say, a Troglodyte or Lizardfolk or something similarly exotic instead of a human or elf.

[kkplx]

Wouldn't the Unguent of Timelessness solve your problem? 150gp for 8 medium sized creatures. If it's not allowed for creatures work out a version that is with your DM.


Unguent of Timelessness: When applied to any matter that was once alive this ointment allows that substance to resist the passage of time. Each year of actual time affects the substance as if only a day had passed. The coated object gains a +1 resistance bonus on all saving throws. The unguent never wears off, although it can be magically removed (by dispelling the effect, for instance). One flask contains enough material to coat eight Medium or smaller objects. A Large object counts as two Medium objects, and a Huge object counts as two Large objects.
Faint transmutation; CL 3rd; Prerequisite: Craft Wondrous Item; Price 150 gp.

[Corronchilejano]

Wouldn't the Unguent of Timelessness solve your problem? 150gp for 8 medium sized creatures. If it's not allowed for creatures work out a version that is with your DM.

Again, I'm kinda more interested in the rules for the trade than in keeping the bodies. There's a lot of ways to do it using spells, I know, but what about not using magic?

Roleplaying fluff.

[Psyren]

Again, I'm kinda more interested in the rules for the trade than in keeping the bodies. There's a lot of ways to do it using spells, I know, but what about not using magic?

Roleplaying fluff.

Thing is, unless you can find the rules for creating embalming fluid alchemically you'll be homebrewing anyway.

In Pathfinder you can make Unguent of Timelessness without being a caster - you just need the Master Craftsman (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/master-craftsman---final) feat.

[Corronchilejano]

Thing is, unless you can find the rules for creating embalming fluid alchemically you'll be homebrewing anyway.

In Pathfinder you can make Unguent of Timelessness without being a caster - you just need the Master Craftsman (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/master-craftsman---final) feat.

Well, that IS pretty much what I'm talking about right now. Homebrew rules for that. Would this be the wrong forum?