(Pathfinder) Any suggestions for a level 5 Rogue feat?

[Odessa333]

Hey all!

My character has 4 levels of rogue under her belt, and will be hitting level 5 soon, and I was hoping for suggestions on what to pick up for a feat. It's a pathfinder game, and I'm playing a half-elf vanilla rogue. Stats are: STR 7, DEX 20, CON 14, WIS 14, INT 14, CHA 7. Other party members are a Fighter, a Ranger, and an Oracle of Life. Current feats/talents are Combat Expertise, Rogue talent: weapon finesse, Dervish Dance, and rogue talent: combat trick/Improved Feint. As a half elf, I have skill focus in perception as well.

Note that this is not asking if my rogue would be better as a bard, or using two weapon fighting, or sap master, etc. I am scimitar using rogue, and with a CHA of 7 bard/sorcerer/etc stuff is out. I'm trying to make the above character better, not making a better character. Hopefully that makes sense. I've asked for help on 'other' forums only to have it turn into a fighting match over whether or not rogues are awesome or awful. I'd like to avoid that if possible, you know?

Anywho, I am debating several options. My AC is low to the rest of the team (all with heavier armor and shields) so Dodge could be handy, but using a feat for 1 AC just doesn't seem a fair trade to me. I could go with party support stuff (trap spotter is handy, and we roll a lot of knowledge checks so esoteric knowledge looks tempting). I am also thinking of going into ninja tricks (ki pool, vanishing trick, dark vision, sudden disguise, etc) to increase my stealth role.... but my ki pool would be limited, so I don't know if it's worth it. Lastly, I am debating taking a dip into an arcane class like the magus, fuse some of it's magic with my sword skills. If I do, additional traits to get magical knack could be useful.

Way I see it, there are lot of 'ok' options, but nothing 'great.' Any suggestions? Thank you for your time and aid. It goes appreciated, I assure you!

[avr]

Shadow Strike lets you sneak attack even when the target has concealment. Useful, but some people hate taking feats to avoid a penalty, and depending on your DM's style the penalty may not be common.

Improved Unarmed Strike is a prerequisite for various style feats which you may find useful later. It's also the only way to use TWF for extra attacks and still keep Dervish Dance on your primary attack, if you want to aim for that - i.e. primary hand scimitar, off hand unarmed strike.

I think trying to get into ki would be an accident as a rogue. A magus dip or full multiclass is a lot more forgiving and is a viable option.

[Dragon-Rider]

I see you picked up Improved Feint. How often do you plan on feinting? If you plan on using it a lot, your GM may ensure that the enemies you face have plenty of ranks in Sense Motive. If he/she does that, your 7 CHA is going to hurt your chances of pulling off a successful feint. Picking up Skill Focus: Bluff would help to increase your chances of succeeding. The nice thing about Pathfinder's version of Skill Focus is that the bonus it provides doubles when you have 10 ranks in the skill. If you don't think you'll have issues pulling off feints despite your character's low charisma, then skip Skill Focus.

~Dragon-Rider

[Psyren]

Improved Initiative is always nice, because anyone you beat in initiative will be flat-footed to you on the first round.

Because you're a melee rogue, you will probably want Skill Focus: Acrobatics to help you move around the battlefield safely and flank with your other melee.

Extra Rogue Talent is never a bad choice either. Good choices include:
- Ki pool: you have decent Wis, and this will open the door to some handy Ninja Tricks. In particular, Acrobatic Master will make sure you never fail an acrobatics check, Shadow Clone will help keep you alive, Vanishing Trick/Invisible Blade will keep you alive AND help you do more damage, and Forgotten Trick can be used to pick these up as well (albeit being very expensive in terms of ki.)
- Peerless Maneuver: Saves you from a bad acrobatics roll.
- Canny Observer: provides a larger bonus than Skill Focus: Perception, and stacks with it - useful if your DM likes traps.
- Slow Reactions: Useful both for escaping and for protecting your allies from a melee brute.
- Trap Spotter: Another useful one if your DM likes traps, though you have to count on them not to fudge your roll.
- Weapon Training: Since you'll only be using a scimitar, you may as well be really good at it. This can also start you down the Dazzling Display/Shatter Defenses tree.

[Sayt]

SKill Focus (Stealth). No (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/dampen-presence), really (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/hellcat-stealth).

[Odessa333]

Hellcat Stealth seems funky, like a lesser version of the shadowdancer's Hide in plain sight. We haven't run into anything with invisibility yet, never mind anything that can detect it, but still good to know it exists for if/when it comes up.

Improved Initiative is always handy too. I'm tempted by the ninja tricks, but I worry the ki pool will be so limited to make it useful, if that makes sense. I'd have to spend two feats (ki pool and vanishing trick) and get to use it 2-4 times. invisibility is nice though...

I don't know how much I'll be feinting, honestly. It's my newest feat, and I am trying it out as the DM really, REALLY recommended it. I doubt he'll screw it over after hinting at it so much.


How would using an unarmed strike as an off hand work? Wouldn't that subject me to two weapon fighting penalties and need to go down that huge tree that is two weapon fighting?

[Psyren]

I don't know how much I'll be feinting, honestly. It's my newest feat, and I am trying it out as the DM really, REALLY recommended it. I doubt he'll screw it over after hinting at it so much.

He might have recommended it just because he's remembering that one time he feinted against another DM and it worked and it would be so cool if the same thing happened to you, damn the actual usefulness of the tactic.

Can you get 3.5 feats/PrCs? One way to make feinting worthwhile is Sudden Riposte from Drow of the Underdark combined with the Invisible Blade PrC from CWar. But again, your poor Cha makes feinting a not very good option.



How would using an unarmed strike as an off hand work? Wouldn't that subject me to two weapon fighting penalties and need to go down that huge tree that is two weapon fighting?

Well, I suppose unarmed strike wouldn't count as "carrying a weapon in your off-hand" so your Dervish Dance should be safe (and it might even give you Dex to attack and damage with your fist too based on the wording), but I'm compelled to ask why all the same. You'll need IUS in order to use it effectively, you'll at least want TWF so the penalties aren't too harsh (-4/-8 before iteratives) and you'll need to invest in an AoMF so your fist isn't stymied by DR. (Note that you don't need the whole TWF tree - the others are just so you get more attacks with your offhand, but the first one is the only one that affects your main hand.)

[Dimcair]

A more boring option could be to pick up shield proficiency.

Get +1 AC and possibly another benefit/more AC from a magic shield. (somewhat better than dodge, still not good)

[Psyren]

If he carries a shield he loses the benefit of Dervish Dance; not worth it.

[Odessa333]

While I'd love a shield to boost AC, Psyren is right. I can't use a shield without losing dervish dance, and since I can't do a thing combat wise without that feat it's not going to work.

Sadly again, no 3.5 stuff. Paizo material only. These 'rules' keep getting in the way of a good time, I tell you!


Right now, I'm thinking Ki pool and vanishing trick will be my best bet. I did have one other idea though. Would it be worthwhile to take the rogue talent: minor magic, to qualify for crafting feats? No one else in the party is interested in crafting, and I always find crafting to be helpful. I could take major magic to get vanish and craft wands to make wands of vanish, giving more uses per day than vanishing trick. Or hire someone to cast invisibility. It opens up a lot of doors, and it sounds good in theory. Good idea, bad idea?

[Psyren]

Apologies if I misrepresented your gender by the way.



Right now, I'm thinking Ki pool and vanishing trick will be my best bet. I did have one other idea though. Would it be worthwhile to take the rogue talent: minor magic, to qualify for crafting feats? No one else in the party is interested in crafting, and I always find crafting to be helpful. I could take major magic to get vanish and craft wands to make wands of vanish, giving more uses per day than vanishing trick. Or hire someone to cast invisibility. It opens up a lot of doors, and it sounds good in theory. Good idea, bad idea?

Actually minor magic only gives you a cantrip. You need Major Magic for a 1st-level spell like Vanish, so that means burning two talents.

Honestly if nobody wants to craft, the DM might simply be inclined to have a crafting NPC or shop available to you so I personally wouldn't waste feats on that. Just use IRL Diplomacy and convince him to create a crafter for you guys. And if he insists one of you has to do the crafting, you would be the worst person for it since you need so many feats before you even get to the crafting feats themselves.

[Callin]

I actually played a Dervish Dancer Magus 2/ Rogue 3 once in a Pathfinder Game. It was alot of fun. Using Arcane Mark to always get multiple attacks for the extra sneak attack so I didnt have to do TWF and could actually do Dervish Dance.

Feint was used a small amount, but the Ki Tricks are what really set it off. And Vanish from Magus helped as well.