players *asking* for a TPK...

[Doc_Outlands]

Yes, they want a quick one-shot game (prolly a 2-session event) and two of the players have suggested I design the adventure with the goal of a TPK! Sooooo... how do you *plan* for a TPK?

The broad outline:
All-Elf
gestalt Battle Sorcerer/X
level 7 to 10 or thereabouts
"special forces" style operation
teamwork benefits from Heros of Battle

What I'm looking at running is a spec-ops team sent to find out what has killed several adventuring teams exploring a recently-discovered ancient human ruin (human empire self-destructed centuries ago, leaving humans as little more than tribes of barbarians). The ruin is in Orc-held territory. Opening scene is an aerial battle between the characters and evil airborne critters as the heroes attempt a nighttime aerial drop into the area to avoid being seen - prolly being dropped by hippogrifs or giant owls.

Current team-members:
BSor//Ftr/Cragtop Archer (modified to be Treetop Archer for Elves)
BSor//FSoul
BSor//Rgr/DHunter (the Orc-Hater, TWF specialist)
2 more are as yet undecided

What are good PrC's for the BSorc? Should I focus on making the ancient ruin a deathtrap with the added complication of Orc and Goblinoid forces trying to capture/kill the party? Should there be a bignasty for them to take on at the very end of the tower - say a trapped demon that gets released?

Anything? Anyone?

[oriong]

Rocks fall, everybody dies?

I mean it seems like it's just a matter of sending them after creatures of significantly higher CR, since they're gestalt this means much higher CR.

Iron Golems are a good one, since they're immune to magic (a signficant resource your team seems to have) and have that nasty poison breath (and an all elf team so weaker con scores). But there's plenty of nasties. Heck, throw in dragons.

[cupkeyk]

How about Saw inspired heroics. They realize that the key plot elements are inside their bodies and they have to cut themselves open while staggering with their guts splayed open to an altar to save the day.

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

What about sending countless frenzied berzerkers at them? That should be fun.

[Mewtarthio]

Half-Fiend Phrenic Tarrasque. Instant TPK even for really high-level parties. Aside from the ridiculously powerful psionics this guy gets ("okay, all twenty of you guys need to make a DC 38 Will save to avoid domination... also there's now two of them"), his Blasphemy SLA instantly kills everything with less than 38 HD within forty feet... no save.

Oh, wait, did you mean you wanted a dramatic battle that they couldn't possibly win, rather than something way above their CR that will inevitably kill them? Go with the "Thermopolae" idea: A hopeless battle in which the honor is in fighting rather than running. Leave them holding out against an impossible force (in numbers rather than individual power: They'll want to take a lot down with them). You can even say that the bad guys net a Pyrrhic victory due to the PCs' sacrifices. You may even go so far as to give them the option of fleeing, but they stay behind to "cover the evacuees" or just "to go out in a blaze of glory" (they want the TPK, so they'll probably do something suicidal anyway). Remember the most important thing: Numbers, not individual power. They should be taking down whole hordes of bad guys before finally being borne down. Also, be sure to kill them. They won't want to be captured and tortured/brainwashed/ported to the Abyss. That's not quite so heroic.

[Yakk]

You are doing a TPK -- so have some fun.

Start playing to nightmare scenarios. The goal is to repeatedly throw near-TPKs at the party, but leave a way out.

Each TPK threat should be cool, dangerous, and have one weakness. Each one is nastier and cooler than the last.

Lock down the party. Transportation and utilty magic should start warping, failing, and being unreliable.

Mounts should start going insane. Transportation magic fails for a few seconds (character falls) and then it recovers.

A flight of 3 dragons (old ones) flys above. They circle, and start coming closer.

If the party stays in the air, they die. If they fly lower, insane mounts and/or transporation magic makes the party crash-land near the strangely glowing temple complex.

The smallest of the Dragons cirlces lower. This should scare the players. 100' up and 200' away it falters, tries to fly upwards, and then crashes.

They see the Dragon cry in pain, shoot flame all over the place, then silence.

The other two Dragons continue to circle above.

Then the shadows attack the party. First one attacks, then two, then four, then 8, then ... Hopefully your party gets the idea.

The shadows attack sometimes from the air, sometimes from underground, sometimes at ground level. They come in growing pulses, with a breather in between. Even when the shadows don't attack, the players should see shadows flicker -- real shadows or monsters, they can't tell.

The shadows attack from the direction AWAY from the temple, so if the party flees away from where the shadows come, the temple is the way they flee. When they get near the temple, the strange blue flames seem to keep the shadows at bay.

Etc.

Each player should control two characters. This allows some serious attrition without someone getting bored.

Each level is a ring. The players should be fleeing inward, instead of fighting inward.

Dragons+Transporation failure -> Shadows -> Temple.

The Temple is, of course, deadlier than what is outside -- but not immediately.

Event ideas:
At some point, they should meet an insane member of a previous party, hiding within a circle of protection of some kind in some temple. This is a chance to have a night of rest. After the rest period, the insane member of the previous party dies, and the mysterious circle of protection fades.

Telepathic contact with another previous party member (different party), asking the party to come rescue him, occasionally dropping hints on how to get through things.

Demons. Gates to outer planes. Geometry that makes no sense -- they should enter a room with 6 sides, all of them with right angle corners between them. When you turn left, you see different walls.

[Woot Spitum]

Give all the orcs levels of ranger with elves as their favored enemy. If your party is good, make the orcs fiendish so that they can smite the party members. Have many or all the orcs poison their weapons. Give the orcs plenty of powerful equipment and magic items.

[Bloodred]

Or just make a single bad-ass NPC who unknown to the players have infinite HP??

[purple gelatinous cube o' Doom]

you could have them find a deck of many things, and whoever that doesn't kill, you could have a tarrasque waiting for.

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

you could have them find a deck of many things, and whoever that doesn't kill, you could have a tarrasque waiting for.
That's sadistic, I like your style.

[The_Snark]

If you're looking for an epic TPK that the players will enjoy, rather than just a way to kill them all, I second Mewthartio's idea: infinite hordes of enemies. They shouldn't be terribly threatening enemies; the fighter ought to be able to take on large numbers and come out on top, and spells should be routinely removing large numbers of them, but they ought to have some ability to do damage. Goblin and orc forces strike me as a good option here. Don't send them in all at once, since that makes combat take way longer; throw them at the PCs in groups, and every 2 rounds or so, a new group enters, meaning if the PCs aren't fast enough they risk being overwhelmed.

If they use clever tactics to get out of being killed by the endless hordes, or if they last long enough that it becomes boring, then have the creature at the center of the ruins break loose. I cannot reccomend enough the Elder Eidolon template. Make sure you apply it to something big and preferably weird, and it should do the job nicely; a worn-down party will not be able to contend with it. It's vaguely golem-like, with non-Euclidean geometry and some Lovecraftian insanity thrown in.

[Demented]

Hmm... how to prepare for a TPK...

Difficulty is based on resources consumed, rather than how difficult the encounter is to actually defeat. In other games, resources are typically just ammunition and health, but in D&D you've got equipment, ability scores, even money.

If you want to prepare for a TPK, have the players go up against encounters that consume these resources, but aren't necessarily difficult. If the PCs use a rope to go across the chasm, interrupt them and destroy the rope, but leave them otherwise unharmed. Rather than throwing monsters at them in an attempt to kill, use elusive cannon fodder to wear them down, gradually or rapidly. Have them face multiple enemies and/or traps, rather than single opponents. Pit them against enemies that can do damage that last beyond the encounter, such as poison and ability damage.

In essence, combine Yakk and The_Snark's ideas.

By the time the party reaches the TPK, they should be clinging to broken armor and dungeon scraps. Maybe even give them a slim chance to escape with their lives. Or just tempt them with one.

[LotharBot]

You can go several directions:

- Horror. Around every corner lurks yet another nasty way to get killed, mostly in the form of poison/traps. Just when the party thinks they're in the clear, they start dropping from carbon monoxide poisoning.
- Heroic last stand/diversion. The party just needs to buy time for the civilians to flee, or the allies to execute their flanking maneuver, or the friendly clerics to complete the ritual to create a protective ward (good party) or summon a big demon (evil party) or whatever. They'll eventually be overrun, but in being overrun, they'll provide the team with the boost they need in order to win.
- Invade the dungeon, get in over your heads. You take out all the orcs and goblins, but aren't exactly ready for the BBEG, who slaughters the party mercilessly.
- In order to stop the BBEG/demon summoning, they must all participate in a magic ritual that will make the dungeon collapse. Or, they just have to physically knock over a few roof supports. Whatever. (In the end, "rocks fall, everyone dies", but it's heroic.)

[CockroachTeaParty]

Oohh... crack open Lords of Madness, and let the fun begin.

I could see a level 15 beholder mage/ archmage at the very end... drool.

[Jothki]

I'd suggest some sort of a stealthy fortress crawl. Think Metal Gear, if you've played anything in that series. Throw enough guards and traps at them that they're probably doomed, but with the right mix of luck, teamwork, strategy, and sacrificing of teammates for the survival of the group, they might manage to succeed.

[Penguinizer]

Plane of the tarrasques adventure :P

An entire plane inhabitatet by thousands of tarrasques. Instant tpk.

[TheOOB]

Start hucking a few dominate monsters their way, nothing says TPK like forced inter-party conflict.

[Indon]

Ooh, mirror of oppositionalicious.

Personally, I'd give them a very difficult campaign with a martyrdom encounter at the end; the group ends up dying heroically to save the whatever.

[Miles Invictus]

Better yet...Hall of Mirrors of Opposition! And a device that casts Mirror Image on each of the conjured foes. And the entire area should be blanketed in Silence spells.

[Vernal]

Focus on the "Special Forces" aspect and make sure that the party has an actual GOAL to achieve.
Any SF group will have a goal, it might be suicidal (here it definately is), but some thing to complete.
I picture having to fight though the hordes to kill one or two generals but then the team simply gets overwhelmed by the opposition. The TPK is achieved, yet it isn't the let down that "rock falls all die" or fight the Tarrasque with toothpicks would be.

[Fax Celestis]

The answer, is, of course, Pun-Pun.

EDIT: Or a few of these (http://www.rpgwebprofiler.net/view.php?id=46190)

[jlousivy]

Get a copy of each of the party member's character sheets. At random points while they are inside a dungeon of some sort have a flash of light- will save on a target. Unless they get a natural 20 they fail the save. Then later on have them fight--- themselves, groups of 2 and 3.

I'm thinking BIG -empty room with a ton of pillars (for cover) and there are two or threelevels, think hotel-like area where there is an opening in the middle and the rooms are all along the side. In the middle is one of the groups looking all grim but they seem not to notice the good guys, in the middle of the room (between them) is the key to continueing on. When the good guys come within 30 feet of them or attempt any hostile action--- TONS of goblin archers appear from the sides attacking (pilars giving the party some cover) and the baddie group goes into action.

Also on the ground have a giant red circle with some wierd design--- anti-teleportation.

[SpiderBrigade]

In order to stop the BBEG/demon summoning, they must all participate in a magic ritual that will make the dungeon collapse. Or, they just have to physically knock over a few roof supports. Whatever. (In the end, "rocks fall, everyone dies", but it's heroic.)
This is more or less exactly what I was going to suggest. With something like this, you can have a TPK and the party can still overcome the threat. IMO this will be much more satisfying than wave after wave of encounters that they eventually just can't beat. Unless you think your players would enjoy a doomed-last-stand type of situation, where they have to hold the enemy off for as long as they can.

I would, however, amend LotharBot's suggestion as follows: try as hard as you can to prevent the situation from being "rocks fall, everyone dies." Instead, I'd suggest something more like an Indiana Jones or Dorukan's Gate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0119.html)- style "scrambling to escape imminent doom after beating the boss/grabbing the treasure" race - only it's too hard, and they will fail. Maybe if they roll nothing but 20s one of them might make it out - and can become an NPC for later use.

[Maerok]

A Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon with a Tarrasque sovereign-glued onto its back?

Or a Living Sphere of Annihilation.

[Renegade Paladin]

A TPK isn't something that needs planning. Just build a great red wyrm and throw it at them if they really want to die that badly.

[Fax Celestis]

Or a Living Sphere of Annihilation.

HODAMNIHADNTHOUGHTOFTHATONE.

Sweet mother of mercy. Worst. Enemy. Ever.

[Mewtarthio]

A TPK isn't something that needs planning. Just build a great red wyrm and throw it at them if they really want to die that badly.

Well, yeah, it's easy to kill people, but a good TPK, one that actually makes a satisfying conclusion to an adventure, is quite difficult.

[SpiderBrigade]

Well, yeah, it's easy to kill people, but a good TPK, one that actually makes a satisfying conclusion to an adventure, is quite difficult.QFT. What we're looking for here isn't just a way to kill the PCs - that's really really easy. It's a way to kill them that is satisfying and fun rather then frustrating and anticlimactic.

[Yakk]

The point of the TPK fight is that you have a tool.

The tool is TPK. Everyone knows it is in play in every single fight.

When you threaten the players with death, they can either move towards it and die, or they can move away from it/avoid it and live.

If you give players two characters each, you can be brutal and not hold back at all. If you are throwing lethal challenges at the party regularly, you risk killing a member of the party and making the group bored.

The players don't need to run both characters -- but by doubling your force, and having a raft of additional characters (who act relatively passive and ineffiective until taken over), when someone dies you say "pick a mook", who starts to shine.

[Maerok]

HODAMNIHADNTHOUGHTOFTHATONE.

Sweet mother of mercy. Worst. Enemy. Ever.

Living Sphere of Annihilation, as a Spiked Chain Fighter. :smalleek: What's the CR on that?!?!

[Toliudar]

I'd agree that having something that the PC's can accomplish with their deaths will make the TPK WAY more palatable. Perhaps their sacrifice is so extraordinary in its benefit that the characters are either picked up as celestial beings, returned as saints, or in some other way spiritually rewarded for their sacrifice.

[Doc_Outlands]

when someone dies you say "pick a mook", who starts to shine.

Which plays to the SpecOps nature of the design.

In the last bunch of D&D Mini's I got, I found a Horned Devil figure. Seems a shame to not make use of that CR16 baddie after having bought him, y'know... It was probably Gated in and contained inside the tower, stuck for a minor eternity killing and eating the occasional wandering Orc or Goblinoid until now. Perhaps something one of the other adventuring groups did has weakened the HD's containment and it is about to break free and ravage the countryside? Hm, things to think about!

[Missing Shoe]

Since there is a seemingly infinite ways to handle this, I will just tell you a fun way a party I was in died to give you some ideas.

I had a cursed item that would summon a random amount of devils to do my bidding for me, but they were only friendly to me, and after the fight they wanted payment.

So we were put in the situation where I was forced to use it to save our butts. I end up summon eight Osyluth (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#boneDevilOsyluth). (actually it was a 3.0 equivalent, but basically the same. They also had suggestion at will.)

First round: Ice wall maze, separating the party and the enemies indifferently (since they were all hostile in their eyes)

Second round: suggested enemies and players to take naps.

Third round-end: Made ice coffins for the nappers, watched the boxed off enemies dual to the death, only to have to face another enemy after they won (by dispelling a wall).

The entire time using their telepathy to laugh in the minds of the victims.

Then when it was all done they killed me because I couldn't satisfy their demands.


So in summary I would go with something tactical and unique rather than a big buff dragon or something. Also, keep a back up plan in case your players surprise you by defeating the TPK. Worst case scenario: they kill everything you throw at them, then use the floating sphere of annihilation. Make it creepy slow moving too so the party has time to try to do something to it only to realize its floating DOOM!

[LotharBot]

Well, yeah, it's easy to kill people, but a good TPK, one that actually makes a satisfying conclusion to an adventure, is quite difficult.

QFMFT! (As Samuel L. Jackson would say.)

If this is a two-session thing, consider making the goal of session 1 to accomplish the "special ops" goal (assassinate the enemy leader, etc.) and the goal of session 2 to attempt to survive the aftermath (probably unsuccessfully.)

[MeklorIlavator]

I second the Yaks idea. In fact, if no one objects :yoink:

[Roderick_BR]

I'm a bit late, but I think that's an interesting idea. I like the "martyr" thing too.
You can have them invading a fortress, a very typical thing. Get some strong guards, some monsters, the usual.
Once they are inside, they find that strong creatures are inside, plotting something dangerous. You can get mazes online and throw in all the creatures you want.
As they proceed into the fortress, they find out the place is being prepared for something big. A invasion, the summoning of a great demon, or the creation of some new weapon.
After passing all the challenges, they need to face the "great plan" itself, in the inner chamber.
It can be some almost impossible to defeat monster, a small army of incredible powerful monsters, or some weapon about to be activated.
Everytime, let the PCs be aware that they can run away, but if they do, they'll doom the whole region. They are the only ones near and powerful enough to do anything.
They can run, but can't teleport, so no easy escapes, nor bringing outside help.

You ever played the MegamanX Zero series for GBA?
Here's the story in the 4th one (ending spoiler)

The BBeG, Doctor Weil, uses a giant orbital space station to attack a city full of humans. By the end of the game, the station's cannon is destroyed, so Weil decides to crash the whole station on the city.
Zero decides that the only way to fully destroy the station is to destroy it's energy core, which is now conected to Weil, making him almost invencible.
He is aware that if he destroy Weil and the core, the whole place will explode, and he will have near 0 chance of survival, but if he doesn't, the base will hit the ground with the force of a giant meteour.

[SpiderBrigade]

As they proceed into the fortress, they find out the place is being prepared for something big. A invasion, the summoning of a great demon, or the creation of some new weapon.
After passing all the challenges, they need to face the "great plan" itself, in the inner chamber.
It can be some almost impossible to defeat monster, a small army of incredible powerful monsters, or some weapon about to be activated.
Everytime, let the PCs be aware that they can run away, but if they do, they'll doom the whole region. They are the only ones near and powerful enough to do anything.
Again, I have to stress that you need to be very careful with this. You have to set it up more like the example in your spoiler, where they WILL be able to win, but not win AND survive. If you just throw them up against a nigh-unbeatable monster that will probably kill them...with the fate of the kingdom or whatever riding on the battle...it becomes very, very frustrating when they getT TPKed and fail to save the kingdom. What you want here is a way for them to die while succeeding.

[Matthew]

Yeah, the Martyr approach definitely seems to be the best idea. You could always use the Icewind Dale plot and have them have to close a portal of some kind...

[Draz74]

Ikea Tarrasque, anyone? (Anyone have a link?)

Or a classic well-built smart dragon, like Dungeon Delve used when they wanted a TPK-type adventure.

I also liked the Hall of Mirrors of Opposition one ...

[Roderick_BR]

Again, I have to stress that you need to be very careful with this. You have to set it up more like the example in your spoiler, where they WILL be able to win, but not win AND survive. If you just throw them up against a nigh-unbeatable monster that will probably kill them...with the fate of the kingdom or whatever riding on the battle...it becomes very, very frustrating when they getT TPKed and fail to save the kingdom. What you want here is a way for them to die while succeeding.
Oh, yeah, very good point.
I forgot to say: an interesting scenario, is where the characters knows that succeeding in their mission will result in their death. The portal thing, for example, where the portal can be closed only from inside, the characters know that they will have to be locked inside a dimension where they simply can't survive, but in doing so they'll frustrate the invasion plans for the next 10,000 years.
In this case, having a NPC that's been helping the party nearby, that the characters can send back home to "warn the king" or "spread the news" once the mission is accomplished is another cool way to make the players feel fulfilled after their characters made the final sacrifice.

[Indon]

HODAMNIHADNTHOUGHTOFTHATONE.

Sweet mother of mercy. Worst. Enemy. Ever.

Stop me if I'm wrong, but isn't there some planar spell or something that destroys such a sphere? Like, a Gate spell or something?

[Yakk]

So you have your rings of deadlyness, each one allowing an escape into the inside.

As your team marches down the rings, attrition of the team happens, and you run into the remnants of previous parties.

At every stage, going outward cannot be an option. If going outward even looks like a survivable option, you should rework that ring.

Some motivation should be provided that increases with the rings. A clue that someone deeper in is trying to destroy the world, someone deeper in asking for help, etc.

The party should only have a chance to rest and calmly make decisions at points you want them to. Don't make the players solve puzzles -- puzzles take time and calm thought. Calmness is not what you want.

The areas where you can "clear an area" and be safe should be rare, and placed on purpose. Even those areas should have a clock ticking.

When you reach the innermost ring, by the rules above, the player cannot retreat out to more outer rings. Doing so would be suicidal.

So at the center, where you have the demon summoning/rift in reality/lich kings ascension/undead monster factory, the party is once again given an out.

I like the idea of the BBEG surrounding the party with overwealming power, and saying "join me, or die". The party at this point should be conditioned to follow the "don't die" path, because they know you are being serious about it. So hopefully at least one person takes the "join me" path -- at which point, the BBEG says "done", the character screams in pain, shadow and flame consumes her, and she emerges as a ivory-skinned elf with blood-red eyes.

...

The force of mooks is useful, because you can use them to keep pacing. The meta-rule (which you can tell your party) is that if the party gets bogged down and doesn't know what to do for more than (hourglass timer), one of the mooks makes a suggestion that has a 2/3 chance of being the right way out. But the cost of this is that an extra mook (probably a different one) dies in the next scene (regardless of the party taking the mook's decision).

Communicated to the party like that, this places a "soft timer" on how long they can discuss problems before being decisive. And it is a meta-game agreement -- a plot convienience -- not part of their character's knowledge.

[Doc_Outlands]

I'm telling the players to make 2 characters each and be prepared to die messily. So far, I know a BSorc//WarMage, BSorc//Rog & a BSorc//Warlock are being added. Another BSorc//Cleric is being discussed.

I want them to have to stop a Horned Devil trapped in the tower. How would you keep a Horned Devil trapped in a tower for several centuries that could be undone by an Adeventurer's failing the DC for an Imp's Suggestion?

The tower is situated in an area of the world controlled by Orcs and Goblinoids. While attempting to aerially infiltrate the tower, they are spotted and a large army is mobilized at them (giving them lots of cannon-fodder to dispatch). They make it into the tower and (relative) safety, only to discover that alternating layers of the tower overlook a different reality - possibly one of the levels of Hell, ergo the Horned Devil occupant. Both realities have large armies trying to access the tower, giving them plenty of pressure from the outside (and plenty of targets for the archers and ranged spells). Now they have a Horned Devil they have to deal with internally as well. How do I set things up w/ the HD to require the PCs to die preventing his escaping?

added: Perhaps the planar gate idea - they have to go into Hell and close the gate the HD used to get in, splitting up the party and leaving them critically weakened...

[Jorkens]

I'd suggest some sort of a stealthy fortress crawl. Think Metal Gear, if you've played anything in that series. Throw enough guards and traps at them that they're probably doomed, but with the right mix of luck, teamwork, strategy, and sacrificing of teammates for the survival of the group, they might manage to succeed.
Possibly have the whole place so full of nasties that they have to stealth their way in - killing stuff in an obvious manner would just result in everything in the place coming at them and killing them rather quickly.

Then to accomplish the eventual goal - foil the dark ritual or whatever - they have to just run out in front of the crowd and stick an axe through the priest and then leg it with nineteen types of beastie on their tails. So to avoid all hell breaking loose they have to cause all hell to break loose.

Oh, and there's no limit to the fun potential of letting them think they've just got through against overwhelming odds and can see the light of day before introducing them to some really overwhelming odds, or come to some horrible realization about the scale or nature of what's really going on (You clamber to the edge of the moon and look down to see the awful truth. Deimos floats above Hell itself!) or realize that they're slowly but irreversibly turning into zombies and their only way out is to kill themselves or something equally pleasant.

And I guess you can layer and combine things so that what seems to be the 'oh my god' moment turns out to be just the prelude to the real oh my god moment.

[mystikphish]

What a really cool idea for a "two-off" adventure.

Some great, great suggestions above... I would highly recommend re-watching Saving Private Ryan or one of the older WWII spec-ops movies for some good pacing ideas (Guns of Navarrone, etc.). You'd want to make sure *someone dies* at least once an hour of play or something... To keep the tension up. :smallbiggrin:

I cast my vote for the rings-in-rings idea. Also, spec-ops adventures shouldn't just test your mettle, but your stamina as well.

Sleep? What's that?

Almost no one should get a chance to rest. Find a nice hiding spot? Only a couple guys can get in there and rest. The other guys have to stand guard the entire time. Magic should become increasingly scarce, the PCs should have to ask themselves "do I *REALLY* want to blow this fire-ball on those 25 orcs? or save it for something more dangerous?" The guys standing guard (well everyone) should be making fortitude saves to tough it out as the continued stress wears them down. Make them fight not only hordes of bad guys, evil captains, and an evil overlord... Make them fight their own bodies as they push themselves beyond the limit.

That's what makes you special ops... over-coming that limit.

PLEASE PLEASE let everyone know how it goes...

[Doc_Outlands]

That's what makes you special ops... over-coming that limit.

PLEASE PLEASE let everyone know how it goes...

I *like* that stamina idea! (in a fiendishly gleeful DM way) Consider it filched. I know the BSor//WarMage is planning to load up on wands and metamagic feats already, so she's figuring on that angle already.

As for letting everyone know how it goes... OF COURSE! How could I start such a major discussion like this and NOT give up a final report?? We'll be playing Thurs/Fri, so figure on a report sometime over the weekend/early next week.

For a map, I'll be using the temple out of Dungoen's Age of Wyrms adventure where they have to stop Kyuss from returning. I just love that map and neeeeeed to use it!

Still gotta figure out the details...

[Sam K]

Since it's a short, high powered game, this is a great chance to shake up the standard adventuring routines. Like it was suggested, dont let them rest. They're on an urgent, covert mission behind enemy lines. In a location controlled by hostiles That is NOT the place to take a nap! Have the enemies fight intelligently, with the goal of EVENTUALLY taking down the party. You can make encounters specifically designed to use up their resources: group of orcish berserkers that go heavily for sunders, possibly breaking the partys awsome items (forcing them to use whatever they can loot from fallen foes). Fast enemies (all with improved initiative) making hit and runs, forcing them to expend far more power than they normally would to take the enemy out before they withdraw and heal (the enemy has home field advantage, it should show). Assume that the enemy (or atleast the enemy leaders) have some ways of spying on the party, so they know what the players are doing. If they spend time buffing, have the enemy hit them with dispels. If they stay still too long, let the enemy summon in monsters to attack them. Not EVERYTHING the party does needs to fail (that gets boring fast), but it should be enough that they understand that they're playing the enemys game, not their own. Have the enemys use the tactics that an evil twink would come up with. Small groups of enemies surprise attack and pick on a single party member, then when he's wounded hit him with disintigration (preventing any attempts of raising the dead). Even if they all get wiped the next round, it's worth it since the party are growing sigificantly weaker.

When they finally meet the end boss, it should be something they know they can easily take... or could, if they were at full strength. But after having gone through the entire dungeon, not resting, and using up most of their powers, they dont stand much chance.
Be willing to improvise: have them face the boss when you feel they cant beat it, but still have enough power to put up a good fight. If their casters have no spells and the tanks are down to single digit hitpoints, it wont be much fun.

To further reinforce the 'special operation gone horribly wrong' feeling, have them start out with accurate briefings (atleast about the first levels of the enemy base, which the previous parties have explored before disapearing), but the further they get, the more start going wrong. Enemies aren't what they expect and many strategies they may have come up with becomes worthless. Eventually, they should be reduced to about half strength (ideally each player having one char left), exhausted, devoid of their best gear... broken, abandoned, without hope, but still pushing on because that's all they have left.