Allowing all maneuvers to work with ranged weapons - broken?

[gooddragon1]

Would it be broken to allow all Tome of Battle maneuvers to work with ranged weapons? If not, which ones would be broken?

[HammeredWharf]

Broken how? Some would be really weird, like throwing people around with arrows or getting bonus damage from jumping really high when you shoot. Many would be much better as ranged attacks, making some melee initiator builds a bit obsolete. I don't think any would be OP compared to spells.

[Vaz]

Not really. It might actually make them viable.

[Erik Vale]

Agreed, some would be weird, but it would probably still be near-par to melee and thus not be OP compared to a competent wizard.

[Barstro]

This thread needs to be deleted. Even contemplating giving ranged attacks something nice goes against the very foundation of this game and is, at best, treasonous.

Compared to how the game was originally contemplated, it is probably a bit overpowered and needs to be closely monitored by the DM. But, as Erik Vale points out, competent wizards still exist, and this will never come close to them.

[HammeredWharf]

I think there a couple of homebrew ranged disciplines around. If you want ranged initiators, it might be better to take a look at them.

[Telonius]

I think there a couple of homebrew ranged disciplines around. If you want ranged initiators, it might be better to take a look at them.

Fax Celestis made up an interesting one here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?10707-Maneuvers-Falling-Star-Discipline).

[Thiyr]

Fax Celestis made up an interesting one here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?10707-Maneuvers-Falling-Star-Discipline).

I'll say this: Faxing Star (to differentiate from other similarly named schools) is mostly good. I do want to point out two maneuvers in it that probably need editing though. Note that Take Aim (3rd lvl) and Exploding Arrow (4th level) are probably okay-but-underwhelming in the list, but area bit lolwut nope too good for most groups in the full text. (Full attack of touch attacks at any range with bonus damage baked in? Full attack that gets temp bonuses to the tune of a +3 weapon added on, plus MLd6 of damage to each shot? Yea, that's a bit much imo. YMMV though)

Edit: for reference, I'm currently playing with Faxing Star in a game, and enjoying it. Did edit those two maneuvers to tone them down, but otherwise, feels solid.

[gooddragon1]

Broken how? Some would be really weird, like throwing people around with arrows or getting bonus damage from jumping really high when you shoot. Many would be much better as ranged attacks, making some melee initiator builds a bit obsolete. I don't think any would be OP compared to spells.

Hm. Don't want to make melee initiator builds obsolete but the homebrew one looks interesting.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I think ranged weapons have enough issues compared to melee that it'd be a wash, power-wise. There are a lot of maneuvers that get really weird when refluffed, though, so homebrew disciplines may be the best approach.

[RolkFlameraven]

Dreamscarred Press' Path of War (Pathfinder 3rd party ToB) has ranged ones/most of them can be used Ranged. You might want to take a look at those as well.

[HammeredWharf]

I think ranged weapons have enough issues compared to melee that it'd be a wash, power-wise.

Perhaps. My main concern would be Tiger Claw maneuvers, as they often have flat damage. It wouldn't be anything particularly terrible, but being able to apply all those extra dice from hundreds of feet away could be really useful and make initiators even more powerful in low-level adventures.

[Jeff the Green]

In addition to the homebrew ranged disciplines, there's the Desert Warblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=8887672&postcount=11) substitution levels.

[ErrantX]

Dreamscarred Press' Path of War (Pathfinder 3rd party ToB) has ranged ones/most of them can be used Ranged. You might want to take a look at those as well.

To expand on this, many disciplines in the Path of War do not mind if you use their techniques with melee or ranged. Some do have a preference, but many don't. And there is a straight up ranged discipline called Solar Wind that specializes on it. I was tired of no ranged support really from Tome of Battle, so I wanted to make sure to include it in Path of War.

-X