Pathfinder Remedies for a Sphere of Annihilation [Archive]

Chernobyl

2014-06-30, 02:52 PM

One of my player's characters decided to shake hands with a Sphere of Annihilation, and is now dead.

The player and I had a heart-to-heart about it after the session last night. She's very disappointed, as she had very big plans for this particular character. She'd grown rather attached to her, and wondered if there might be any kind of in-game explanation that would bring her back. Being an "old school" GM, I wouldn't ordinarily entertain such notions, but she was pretty calm and mature about it, and she's very passionate about the game, so I'm inclined to flex a little bit this time.

My first thought was that perhaps the remaining party members could stumble upon a scroll of True Resurrection during the next gaming session. The OGC says: "[True Resurrection] can even bring back creatures whose bodies have been destroyed, provided that you unambiguously identify the deceased in some fashion (reciting the deceased's time and place of birth or death is the most common method)." However, the OGC says: "Any matter that comes in contact with a sphere is instantly sucked into the void and utterly destroyed. Only the direct intervention of a deity can restore an annihilated character." And, as my player pointed out last night, her character hasn't really been going out of her way to ingratiate herself with any particular deity (we'll leave it at that :smallamused:).

There is a cleric in the party who is rather faithful (albeit low level). I was thinking perhaps if he were to read the scroll, it could be interpreted as interceding with his deity on her behalf. Am I scraping the bottom of the logic barrel here?

Any thoughts? I'd rather resolve this quickly than have her sit idly at the table while the rest of the party goes on some big side quest to curry favor with some deity.

Also, it's worth noting that they're in a rather large dungeon right now, with no expeditious means of returning to a town or settlement (so no high-level wandering clerics will be popping by anytime soon). I can probably orchestrate the discovery of just about any wondrous item or artifact, so long as it doesn't overpower the party.

I know some of you are thinking, "What's the big deal? Just wave your GM wand and have her step out from behind a statue or something. The gods decided she needed a second chance, or whatever." However, my players are big on good and logical story sense. Plus, we've got a couple of rules monkeys in there that will pitch a fit if I just ignore the "direct intervention of a deity" clause.

Thanks,
Chernobyl

Dimers

2014-06-30, 02:59 PM

Umm. That's rough. If the party slept recently, call it a dream sequence. Re-describe the action from waking up until just before the character touched the Sphere, with her personal feeling of deja vu increasing as it goes. Then let her NOT touch the Sphere, and continue interactive play from that point.

Presuming some otherworldly or magical being gave her that dream, her story and plans from this point forward might change a little or a lot. What does she need to do to repay that favor? ... or is the otherworldly being using her for its own ends?

Twilightwyrm

2014-06-30, 03:01 PM

While Wish/Miracle may not be able to bring her back via resurrection, either could undo the action that caused her to get pulled in to the sphere. A basic rewrite of time, unless you rule that a sphere of annihilation removed the character from the timeline as well (which is not actually the case via the RAW). If the party could somehow gain access to one of these things, she might be able to be returned.

Nibbens

2014-06-30, 03:07 PM

Any thoughts? I'd rather resolve this quickly than have her sit idly at the table while the rest of the party goes on some big side quest to curry favor with some deity.

Whatever you decide to do, this is correct. lol.

If I had to throw my 3 cents in, I'd allow for the true resurrect shenanigans to work. But immediately following the dungeon have them contacted someway by the deity who interceded, then start another quest arc.

Long story short, a god noticed a way to get a favor out of the PC's, and allows for the True Resurrection to go down. You can do what you want here, but if you really want to get all 'intrigue-y' on the party - the god who took notice was an evil one.
This instantly puts the party cleric in a very odd position, true, but if he's lawful in any way he's stuck with it. And, if he's good in any way - he still might go through with it depending on the stakes.
(unless of course, he's an evil cleric then the reverse is true. lol.)

FreakyCheeseMan

2014-06-30, 03:08 PM

So... you have a few different options here, that I can see.

The first, and fastest, is very literal "Direct Intervention of a Deity." This will seem kinda cheap, but you might be able to turn it awesome if you actually come up with a motivation for the deity (or other deity-powered creatuer) - bonus points if this motivation is at odds with the party. Maybe she comes back with a "Hitchhiker" - someone wants to break something-or-other out of hell, and uses her soul and resurrection to smuggle it out? The more personal you make it to her, the better... maybe she has a genocidal BBEG of an ancestor, and has has leftover servants infiltrating a Good God's realm, who convince said god that her character is worthy of a ressurection. (They had to wait for this one, because they needed the direct-intervention power in order to pull off the "Hitchhiking."

Another, slower option would be time travel. Somewhere in the dungeon is a leftover experiment by a now-dead archmage, who managed to create a one-use several-hour time jaunt, allowing the party the chance to "rescue" their fallen member.

The cheesiest option is the Retcon. That wasn't actually a sphere of anhiliation, it was a circle of teleportation and an illusion: It was part of a scheme on the part of some BBEG within the dungeon, in order to scare off people/kidnap individual adenturers as a hostage?

Chernobyl

2014-06-30, 03:15 PM

Long story short, a god noticed a way to get a favor out of the PC's, and allows for the True Resurrection to go down. You can do what you want here, but if you really want to get all 'intrigue-y' on the party - the god who took notice was an evil one.
Wow.

I thought I was a pretty devious GM, but you, Sir, take the cake. That's just totally evil. It could actually work. And it's so... evil. I like it.

So let me get this straight. The party cleric reads the scroll of True Resurrection, which gets 'intercepted' by the evil goddess, who has been looking for a lawful way to destroy the party for some time now (which is actually true). She grants the request, with the proviso that the party handles a quest for her at some point in the future. Hm, the more I think about it, the more this sounds like Planar Ally. But anyway, how do I get the evil goddess to do the intercept without the cleric's god knowing about it?

Wow.

iceman10058

2014-06-30, 03:24 PM

miracle IS divine intercession from a diety, says so in thediscription of the spell. that will just cost 5000 xp from the caster

Telok

2014-06-30, 03:24 PM

A scroll of Miracle or Gate will do the trick. Miracle is, at it's basic function, literally asking you diety for divine intervention. Gate can pull in an avatar of a god to whom people have to grovel and sacrifice to in order for it to agree to intercede.

Sith_Happens

2014-06-30, 03:27 PM

You don't so much cast a miracle as request one. You state what you would like to have happen and request that your deity (or the power you pray to for spells) intercede.

It's a bit of a stretch, but only a bit.

Dimers

2014-06-30, 03:28 PM

how do I get the evil goddess to do the intercept without the cleric's god knowing about it?

It's a scroll written by some other priest. The call to the evil goddess could be part of how that priest wrote it. If you want to hint to the reading cleric that it's not perfectly standard for a True Ressurection scroll, tell him the style of magic is different, like it would be if a favored soul or shugenja had made it.

Rama

2014-06-30, 03:29 PM

Wow.

I thought I was a pretty devious GM, but you, Sir, take the cake. That's just totally evil. It could actually work. And it's so... evil. I like it.

So let me get this straight. The party cleric reads the scroll of True Resurrection, which gets 'intercepted' by the evil goddess, who has been looking for a lawful way to destroy the party for some time now (which is actually true). She grants the request, with the proviso that the party handles a quest for her at some point in the future. Hm, the more I think about it, the more this sounds like Planar Ally. But anyway, how do I get the evil goddess to do the intercept without the cleric's god knowing about it?

Wow.

I'd suggest you go with a devil's deal approach.

Rather than just giving them the scroll, perhaps this evil goddess (who is always looking for a way to stick her thumb in the eye of the good god your cleric worships) observes their distress at the loss of their comrade. And, not one to look a gift horse in the mouth, she dispatches one of her agents with an offer.

We'll bring your friend back. But remember who helped you when your god forsook you. And we may come calling to request that the favor be returned.

BWR

2014-06-30, 03:39 PM

Sounds like a situation where you need a Miracle. You can argue that any divine spells from a cleric are 'direct intervention from a deity', but I'd say nothing short of Miracle would work in this case.
It sucks, but sometimes PCs die and sometimes you can't get them back. If getting this PC back is so darn important, you can do one of the following:
- adjust the rest of the dungeon. They find some sort of artifact that a god is willing to trade a Miracle for
- the player makes a new PC whom they find trapped in some manner in the dungeon and plays that until they get out and can go about finding a Miracle worker.
- any god you wish hears their pleas and steps in, in exchange for some really big favor later (new adventure hook). The evil god variant can work, but don't be surprised if the players hate you even more after this.

Whatever you do, don't pull "the room is filled with a blinding light and you see X back from the dead" with no good reason. I saw this many times in one campaign. The DM had decided we were Chosen by the Gods, but he likes to play somewhat killer so at one point the entire original team was dead and we had no access to any Raising, so the original characters just started coming back. It really ruined suspence since we knew we only needed to have one interim character before coming back from the dead.

FreakyCheeseMan

2014-06-30, 03:41 PM

But anyway, how do I get the evil goddess to do the intercept without the cleric's god knowing about it?

You could use something like my idea - have a Good God grant the actual request, but have there be an evil conspiracy tricking said God into doing so.

Nibbens

2014-06-30, 04:55 PM

I thought I was a pretty devious GM, but you, Sir, take the cake. That's just totally evil. It could actually work. And it's so... evil. I like it.

First off, thanks! I give the props to my players who force me to be this way. lol.

But anyway, how do I get the evil goddess to do the intercept without the cleric's god knowing about it?

Hm, I was under the impression that gods are omnipresent - just some things grab their attention more than others. In this case, perhaps the individual who scribed the scroll was a priest of said god? (thank you whoever mentioned that idea. Props to you)

As far as rule wording is concerned - Miracle and TR are both shoddy at best according to the fact that SoA is an artifact and directly states that "direct intercession of a god" is needed here. The books don't really have any spells which directly state "your god directly intercedes for you" which is why the "attention of the god" is more important that the TR or Miracle. So, I'd say to make sure that some scroll is penned by someone of note (to the god, at least) and once the PC's notice something is off, but try anyway (seriously, what else is a player going to do with a 'strangely worded scroll' who's placement seems too good to be true). LOL. But alas, it is too good to be true. haha.

Edit, just reread your post - how do you get the evil goddess to do the intercept without the cleric's god knowing about it? that one's simple. He/she doesn't. They both notice it. The good god expects the bad god to do something with the opportunity, so he doesn't react - allowing the players to work his (the good god) will by finding ways to derail the request. Or maybe the good god knows that if the bad god succeeds, then XYZ will happen which works out in his favor. Thinking long term, the Good god might not even care about one instance of this - he's more focused on the bigger picture. etc etc? Using these ideas, the cleric wouldn't be denied spells or whatever as he's still doing his god's work (or has an opportunity to do so) - or maybe it's even a test for him? LOL.

Psyren

2014-06-30, 05:42 PM

But anyway, how do I get the evil goddess to do the intercept without the cleric's god knowing about it?

Why is this a problem? Gods have all kinds of red tape keeping them from interfering with one another. Good God could know and be powerless to warn the cleric except very subtly. Or the evil god(dess) could be someone with a Secrets portfolio (e.g. Vecna or Shar, in official settings) who can take actions without the do-gooders being the wiser and even impersonate other deities on occasion.

I also liked the earlier suggestion of the "sphere" not being a true SoA at all.

Garktz

2014-06-30, 06:08 PM

Im writting from my cellphone so i.m sorry in afvance for misspelling.

What about half what others said?
Dont go for the res scroll, have some nasty evil guy watching your heroes because they will kill an opponent in the future and he.s overwatching them untill they kill/mess with this opponent, so it will go something along these lines.

Asmodeus (Mayor evil being like him) shows himself to the party (actually) an avatar, not himself) and tells them that he will ask to de dead.s god for a res for said pc (aks, intercede or whatever you see fit) as long as they just know he aided them in this case.
Have the char resurrect, no level loss no drawback excet for a faint taint (not 100% sure but as i understand, faint means something like a little) like a curse, a small one, like not being able to spare enemies so this pc HAS TO kill them.
In a future, havethe party fight a boss that would be much better if spared, the make the mayor evil apear and force the pc to kill this boss unless the pc wants tobreak the deal that was made long time ago

edit. Dont just give them an scroll and thats pretty much all the "cost"
Pc is dead, and diesd because she messed up bad, there has to be a mayor drawback if she wants to come back with the same character and cant do it

emeraldstreak

2014-06-30, 06:09 PM

Power hungry deities are always on the look out for a good sell-your-soul contract.

Alex12

2014-06-30, 08:35 PM

Alternate possibility is that this thing isn't really a Sphere of Annihilation, though it's extremely similar. Spheres are basically D&D black holes, and Umbral Blots (which are basically sapient SoAs) even have assorted dimensional and space-warping powers based on this fact. So the character wasn't actually disintegrated, she was transported someplace else.

Chernobyl

2014-07-01, 02:27 PM

Thanks everyone. This has been extremely helpful.

I'm going to go with the 'too good to be true' scroll of True Resurrection, which is actually a scroll of 'Infernal Bargain' (I just made that up) that was penned by a cleric of an evil goddess. Casting it returns the lost character with full hit points and all equipment, but binds the entire party to a quest, essentially the next hook in the campaign (was wondering how I was going to handle that anyway). To the cleric, the scroll appears to be an unusual version of a True Ressurection spell, written in a different style of magic than what he's used to, as though scribed by an occult priest. He'll cast it anyways (heh heh), and won't notice anything immediately different. However, for each day that they neglect the quest, they will suffer 1 point of CON damage as some mysterious disease begins to break out on their bodies. The only way to "cure" the disease will be to undertake the quest. That'll give them a couple of days to finish out the current dungeon before embarking on the next stage of the campaign.

The only piece I'm still not solid on is how they'll discover the terms of the bargain, i.e. the nature of the quest they must undertake. I'll have to give this some thought.

Again, thanks a ton for all the help. I can always count on this forum for great GM advice. :smallbiggrin:

Vhaidara

2014-07-01, 02:40 PM

Oh, for extra creepiness, mention that the "True Ressurection" scroll is written on "unusual parchment".

It totally isn't human skin.

Nibbens

2014-07-01, 02:52 PM

Oh, for extra creepiness, mention that the "True Ressurection" scroll is written on "unusual parchment".

It totally isn't human skin.

This^ Or even worse aasimar skin. :D

The only piece I'm still not solid on is how they'll discover the terms of the bargain, i.e. the nature of the quest they must undertake. I'll have to give this some thought.

Give the cleric a dream sequence after he casts the spell? Except it's not a dream - He's getting glimpses and images from this evil deity? Personally, I don't like the "you have a dream" sequences, but it would seem appropriate here. And add even more aggravation of trying to find the places mentioned in those "glimpses" while the clock is ticking could be fun. Just a thought. :)

Vhaidara

2014-07-01, 02:56 PM

Some time when they make camp, have them wake up somewhere. The goddess they unknowingly made the bargain with is under attack by some little monster (not showing her true nature). They save her, and she gives them the quest. Then, they wake up.

Best way to do a dream sequence: Treat it like an abduction.

Nibbens

2014-07-01, 03:04 PM

Best way to do a dream sequence: Treat it like an abduction.

Taking this idea and storing it in my tool box now. I like this.

animewatcha

2014-07-01, 03:17 PM

Wow.

I thought I was a pretty devious GM, but you, Sir, take the cake. That's just totally evil. It could actually work. And it's so... evil. I like it.

So let me get this straight. The party cleric reads the scroll of True Resurrection, which gets 'intercepted' by the evil goddess, who has been looking for a lawful way to destroy the party for some time now (which is actually true). She grants the request, with the proviso that the party handles a quest for her at some point in the future. Hm, the more I think about it, the more this sounds like Planar Ally. But anyway, how do I get the evil goddess to do the intercept without the cleric's god knowing about it?

Wow.

Is there a paladin or exalted LG character in the party? You know someone with a moral dilemna (sp?) or something about accepting help from some evil deity? Besides, spheres of annihilation are artifacts. Such things are usually kept an eye on by deities. See Disjunction spell.

Chernobyl

2014-07-01, 06:18 PM

Vhaidara

2014-07-01, 06:24 PM

Wait, does your cleric speak Infernal? If not, I'm sure that you can maneuver a full Infernal section into the contract in which the caster has to state that they are fully understanding of the consequences of the spell and waive the ability to plead unwilling should they attempt to back out of the contract. Which would also allow you to eventually (if necessary) sic Kolyaruts on them. Which means you get to use Inevitables. And Inevitables are freaking awesome.

Nibbens

2014-07-01, 07:15 PM

Ok, how's this look?

INFERNAL BARGAIN
School conjuration (healing) [curse, language-dependent, mind-affecting]; Level cleric/oracle 6; Domain evil, law, madness, trickery
Casting
Casting Time 10 minutes
Components V, S
Effect
Target self and all allies within 100 ft.
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
Description
This spell functions like true resurrection, except that it also places upon the caster and his allies (including the resurrected subject) a magical command to complete some quest.
For every 24 hour period that the subjects do not pursue the quest, they suffer a cumulative 1 point of CON damage, which can only be removed 24 hours after the subjects resume the quest.
While this quest cannot require the subjects to kill themselves or perform acts that would directly result in certain death, it can demand almost any other course of action.
The subjects will not be immediately aware of the curse or the nature of the quest. However, they will be visited by the infernal deity in their next dream, who will inform the subjects of the details of the infernal bargain.
This bargain cannot be dispelled or broken by any means short of a limited wish, miracle, or wish.

Perhaps the CON Damage doesn't start until after the caster sleeps? What happens if the party goes to sleep at different times? Do they all get to talk to the infernal deity? or just one person? or one at a time (if they don't all sleep at the same time)? etc etc.

The dispel clause poses a problem too, how far away are the characters from these spells, and do they have access to scrolls of this? Reading a scroll of miracle or wish is possible for them: (Bold relevant)

If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell's caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell's caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll's caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully. If she fails, she must make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a mishap (see Scroll Mishaps). A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers. Activating a scroll is a standard action (or the spell's casting time, whichever is longer) and it provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does.

To be on the safe side, I'd keep the particulars of the spell to yourself, unless they go divining for it - in which case you may wind up with a very short adventure...

Wait, does your cleric speak Infernal? If not, I'm sure that you can maneuver a full Infernal section into the contract in which the caster has to state that they are fully understanding of the consequences of the spell and waive the ability to plead unwilling should they attempt to back out of the contract. Which would also allow you to eventually (if necessary) sic Kolyaruts on them. Which means you get to use Inevitables. And Inevitables are freaking awesome.

Does he/she still get to sic the Kolyaruts on them if they wish/miracle their way out of the spell?

Vhaidara

2014-07-01, 07:18 PM

Honestly, I would say ys, since that is breaking the agreement. That would straight up be a red flag for the inevitables.

Nibbens

2014-07-01, 07:22 PM

Honestly, I would say ys, since that is breaking the agreement. That would straight up be a red flag for the inevitables.

Truthfully, if this is a god creating a spell, does it necessarily have to have a dispel clause? And the scroll doesn't have to be 6th level as they can cast from a scroll even if it's a higher level. It could be 9th to possibly get around this. :)

Vhaidara

2014-07-01, 07:31 PM

Actually, I would make it a cursed item of 1-shot Miracle, using this modified version instead. Prevents the players from eventually abusing this spell.

Chernobyl

2014-07-01, 09:24 PM

Perhaps the CON Damage doesn't start until after the caster sleeps? What happens if the party goes to sleep at different times? Do they all get to talk to the infernal deity? or just one person? or one at a time (if they don't all sleep at the same time)? etc etc.

Good points. How about the following:

This spell functions like true resurrection, except that it also places upon the caster and his allies (including the resurrected subject) a magical command to complete some quest.
The subjects will not be immediately aware of the curse or the nature of the quest. However, during his next dream, the resurrected character will be visited by the infernal deity, who will inform him of the details of the infernal bargain.
Following this dream, for every 24 hour period that the subjects do not pursue the quest, they suffer a cumulative 1 point of CON damage, which can only be removed 24 hours after the subjects resume the quest.
While this quest cannot require the subjects to kill themselves or perform acts that would directly result in certain death, it can demand almost any other course of action.

The dispel clause poses a problem too, how far away are the characters from these spells, and do they have access to scrolls of this? Reading a scroll of miracle or wish is possible for them.
Hm, good points, although I'm pretty sure they won't get access to those. Still, to be on the safe side, perhaps:

This bargain cannot be dispelled or broken by any means.

Your point about the caster level check is valid. The cleric in question is 5th level, so this would be a d20+5 vs a DC of 6+1=7, if I understand the rules correctly. So there's a 5% chance that it all gets mucked up. Perhaps to be on the safe side, I should bump the CL of the spell down to 4th.

marcielle

2014-07-02, 12:08 AM

Never underestimate the will of your own PCs. If you have a really Good guy, he might prefer to slowly waste to death rather than help the evil goddess. Just make sure to mention the all those caught in the original casting has to resume(or die trying) or the whole party suffers anyway or something like that. I once saw someone prefer to have their character die than break character. The incentive of saving their comrades might make it more palatable to some.

Rabidmuskrat

2014-07-02, 03:01 AM

Another cool idea. The scroll isn't a normal scroll as such. It casts no 'spell'. Instead, when the cleric or whatever starts reading it (not necessarily even out loud), the annihilated character steps out from a nearby corridor/patch of darkness/etc. The party is obviously suspicious as hell, so they run every test they can think of. All of them say that yes, the character is indeed your lost teammate. As soon as they accept that, give control of the character back to its player.

Your rules-monkeys call bs and you just grin at them knowingly and tell them to figure out what happened themselves. Study of the scroll reveals little. Knowledge of Infernal language reveals some of the words seem similar to Infernal words, but the scroll isn't written in any known language. Knowledge check of some kind reveals that it is in the format of a contract of some kind, perhaps, but nothing is signed. Eventually they decide not to look a gift horse in the mouth and finish the dungeon they are in. Destroying the contract has no effect on anything (its purpose is done anyway).

The piece of paper is merely the Infernal equivalent of an acknowledgement of delivery. It requires nothing on the side of the receiving party, hence it takes effect the moment it is picked up without needing to be signed. In essence, by picking it up, the party acknowledge that the gift has been delivered. The gift is not for their teammate back, however, but for secure communications with [insert powerful entity here] which no other god can listen in on. It is in contract form only because this alone requires a miracle, and therefore the infernal bureaucracy demands paperwork.

At some later point, perhaps when your party needs a new quest, [insert powerful entity here] visits them in a suitably weird and freaky fashion and offers them a deal: bring their teammate back from being annihilated in exchange for [insert seemingly innocuous favor here]/[insert moral dilemma here]. When the party argues that he/she is back already, reply that that merely means that the party already accepted its offer, since the effect is backdated to occur immediately after annihilation and if they refuse it now, that timeline will be changed. Everything that happened will be changed, every fight since then will simply have occured without the teammate in question. Bonus points if he/she saved someone's life during the rest of the dungeon. Tell the party that it is quite possible that they would all have died if not for that teammate. And all it requires for the timeline to change is just for [entity] to do nothing.

Now the party are not just bargaining with the life of their teammate, but possibly with their entire group. More than that, they have already seen what happens if they ACCEPT the offer, and its fine (at least in the short term). It is quite likely that they will agree.

At this point you can bring out a contract for the party to sign, if the entity in question is of the contractual sort (lawful), otherwise a verbal contract is perhaps sufficient. The entity can perhaps stress that he won't actually bring their ally back until they complete the quest.

If you want to avoid morality issues: Have the 'task' be something the party would have accepted anyway if the entity had just asked (slay X evil thing), but gods will be gods and they never ask when they can instead get leverage.

Bonus points: Make the entity in question have some kind of connection with the void and/or time.

tl;dr: Entity brings party member back AFTER future favor. Effect is just seen now. Fun with timelines!

Nibbens

2014-07-02, 04:22 PM

At some later point, perhaps when your party needs a new quest, [insert powerful entity here] visits them in a suitably weird and freaky fashion and offers them a deal: bring their teammate back from being annihilated in exchange for [insert seemingly innocuous favor here]/[insert moral dilemma here]. When the party argues that he/she is back already, reply that that merely means that the party already accepted its offer, since the effect is backdated to occur immediately after annihilation and if they refuse it now, that timeline will be changed. Everything that happened will be changed, every fight since then will simply have occured without the teammate in question. Bonus points if he/she saved someone's life during the rest of the dungeon. Tell the party that it is quite possible that they would all have died if not for that teammate. And all it requires for the timeline to change is just for [entity] to do nothing.

Personally, I'd hate to muck about with timeline stuff (creates too many plot holes), but this idea is made of win. lol.

Qwertystop

2014-07-02, 06:56 PM

I like making the "spell scroll" actually be a contract too. Archaic dialects of obscure languages can sound a lot like mystic chanting, after all.

Nibbens

2014-07-02, 07:52 PM

Good points. How about the following:

This spell functions like true resurrection, except that it also places upon the caster and his allies (including the resurrected subject) a magical command to complete some quest.
The subjects will not be immediately aware of the curse or the nature of the quest. However, during his next dream, the resurrected character will be visited by the infernal deity, who will inform him of the details of the infernal bargain.
Following this dream, for every 24 hour period that the subjects do not pursue the quest, they suffer a cumulative 1 point of CON damage, which can only be removed 24 hours after the subjects resume the quest.
While this quest cannot require the subjects to kill themselves or perform acts that would directly result in certain death, it can demand almost any other course of action.

Hm, good points, although I'm pretty sure they won't get access to those. Still, to be on the safe side, perhaps:

This bargain cannot be dispelled or broken by any means.

Your point about the caster level check is valid. The cleric in question is 5th level, so this would be a d20+5 vs a DC of 6+1=7, if I understand the rules correctly. So there's a 5% chance that it all gets mucked up. Perhaps to be on the safe side, I should bump the CL of the spell down to 4th.

Even with the 5% (or even any) the spell can still function as normal, with additional side effects (making sure the desired effect happens). Maybe it functions as normal, except everyone's hair falls out. etc etc. Mildly amusing, but won't potentially derail the quest.

Other than that, it seems like a good idea. Now, let's just hope that they don't try to copy the scroll... lol. Regardless, you can't prepare for everything. lol.

Good luck sir! Let us know how it turns out. I look forward to seeing how they react to this situation (or what they do).

tomandtish

2014-07-02, 09:16 PM

This^ Or even worse aasimar skin. :D

Written with Phoenix quills on the skin of a unicorn....

Ok, how's this look?

INFERNAL BARGAIN
School conjuration (healing) [curse, language-dependent, mind-affecting]; Level cleric/oracle 6; Domain evil, law, madness, trickery
Casting
Casting Time 10 minutes
Components V, S
Effect
Target self and all allies within 100 ft.
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
Description
This spell functions like true resurrection, except that it also places upon the caster and his allies (including the resurrected subject) a magical command to complete some quest.
For every 24 hour period that the subjects do not pursue the quest, they suffer a cumulative 1 point of CON damage, which can only be removed 24 hours after the subjects resume the quest.
While this quest cannot require the subjects to kill themselves or perform acts that would directly result in certain death, it can demand almost any other course of action.
The subjects will not be immediately aware of the curse or the nature of the quest. However, they will be visited by the infernal deity in their next dream, who will inform the subjects of the details of the infernal bargain.
This bargain cannot be dispelled or broken by any means short of a limited wish, miracle, or wish.

Hmm.. I'm not so sure about this one. First off, what you've established here is a Geas cast by one of the party that is the same level as Geas and automatically affects ALL allies within 100 feet? So if I cast it in the barracks of a friendly army we could be talking hundreds who are bound? For that matter, you'd better define allies? Actual allies? Perceived allies (from the caster's perspective)? Legal allies (bound by formal agreement regardless of actual feelings)?

I'm not a big fan of Geas as written. I always allow a saving throw unless the target waives it (otherwise too powerful), but I also don't allow the target to directly attempt to remove it (can't cast their own remove curse). But let's say your party in question was originally 8 members, with one now dead and one being the cleric who would cast this. I'm really concerned about the fact that 6 members could be bound to a contract with an infernal deity, potentially without even being aware that a spell was cast (if the cleric doesn't tell them). And that spell was 6th level...

Two ways to handle this:

1) A being does appear and bargains with them. This being may very well trick them by pretending to be angelic. As always, it's a "Buyer beware" situation. If they don't figure out they are being tricked, then they may be stuck with an open ended favor to an evil being. If they do, then they may have to decide if it is worth the cost. Standard contract rules apply (whatever those may be for your world).

or (my favorite)

2) At some point during the casting, something happens that gives them a chance to realize that this is not a normal resurrection or miracle (even if created by an evil caster). For example, half way through the casting, stop. Hand each player a piece of paper. One says:

You hear a voice in your head saying: "This message is for you alone. I am the Rainbow Goddess. I can save your friend, but because of the power it will cost me, you will owe me a favor. Your answer, yes or no, determines your friend's fate. What we discuss will not be shared with the others. Only you and I will know what your answer is."

Make sure that the note each other player gets (besides the dead one of course) says the same basic thing, but change a word or two. Thus, "This message is for you alone" is true, since no player receives the exact same message. Decide how many "yes" votes you want for the spell to work. (I would NOT make the cleric casting the spell essential). Those who say yes are now under the spell's effect.

Oh, and the Rainbow Goddess? Congratulations. You now owe Tiamat a service.

facelessminion

2014-07-02, 10:00 PM

I am all for the idea of them gaining the notice of a deity, one that decides to aid them... perhaps, in the future, use the rapport gained by aiding them to help point the adventuring party towards even greater threats! A little helpful voice in the head of this just restored adventurer, one that ensures that the party routinely bests all manner of chaotic, draconic, and demonic foes.

The voice would, of course, be Asmodeus.

Socksy

2014-07-03, 09:25 AM

Oh, and the Rainbow Goddess? Congratulations. You now owe Tiamat a service.

Wow.
This entire thread is full of win, but...
WOW. That's amazing.

EDIT: I would offer the player the chance to play a doppelganger pretending to be the character later on, in the ne%t dungeon, having studied them, their past, goals, everything for months. The doppelganger spins some tale about how she got raised from the dead by a Cleric or something. Then, suddenly, amnesia baton. She thinks she IS the original character, and her goals progress the same way. Not as much plot, but it would make it easier for things to go smoothly if you already had an established plot.

Rabidmuskrat

2014-07-03, 10:51 AM

EDIT: I would offer the player the chance to play a doppelganger pretending to be the character later on, in the ne%t dungeon, having studied them, their past, goals, everything for months. The doppelganger spins some tale about how she got raised from the dead by a Cleric or something. Then, suddenly, amnesia baton. She thinks she IS the original character, and her goals progress the same way. Not as much plot, but it would make it easier for things to go smoothly if you already had an established plot.

That... is a pretty neat idea. Her character is ACTUALLY dead, but she gets to play a copy/clone of her character. Interesting twist.

With a box

2014-07-04, 01:21 AM

EDIT: I would offer the player the chance to play a doppelganger pretending to be the character later on, in the ne%t dungeon, having studied them, their past, goals, everything for months. The doppelganger spins some tale about how she got raised from the dead by a Cleric or something. Then, suddenly, amnesia baton. She thinks she IS the original character, and her goals progress the same way. Not as much plot, but it would make it easier for things to go smoothly if you already had an established plot.

and implant a planet-blow bomb inside her body witch explode when she realize she is not orginal

Chernobyl

2014-07-05, 12:49 PM

Epilogue...

Okay, so here's what happened. The party found a scroll of "True Resurrection" (thanks Nibbins for your help with that spell) easily enough at the bottom of a trap that one of the NPCs had fallen into. I passed a note to the cleric, explaining that the scroll was inscribed on "...some unusual parchment, and the True Resurrection spell itself is written in a very unusual style, suggesting that the author was a cleric of some distant or exotic religion" (thanks Dimers and Keledrath for that little bit of flavor text :smallsmile:). The cleric neglected to mention this to the rest of the party, and so that tiny "clue" was quickly forgotten, and the party decided to give it a shot.

Here's the good part.

After they had read the scroll, I paused the game and gave them all a big GM speech about how I typically frown upon efforts to "bring back" deceased characters, how dead means dead, how so-and-so came to me with a very reasonable and mature explanation as to why her character should come back, how I considered it very carefully, BUT... to be fair to the rest, I want everyone to vote on this. If it's unanimous, then I'll allow it. So I restarted the game and told them that they each individually hear a melodious and benevolent voice in their heads say, "I have heard your request, and I am willing to grant it. But given then power involved in rescuing a being from a Sphere of Annihilation, I will require you to do a favor for me in return. Do you accept?" (thanks Tomantrish for that idea :smallwink:). Then I called for an open, thumbs-up/thumbs-down vote on the count of three.

Well of course they all voted yes, so the parchment immediately burst into flames and their lost comrade was immediately restored to them at full hit points, no negative levels, and with all of the equipment she had at the time of her demise. So the party happily continued on in the dungeon, blissfully unaware of the grave nature of their action.

Sometime later, the paladin happened to detect evil and noticed that each party member had an evil aura. They're still trying to figure out that one. The current theory is that some magic effect is messing with the paladin's detect evil ability. :smallbiggrin:

Thanks everyone for all the help with this! GitP is always the first place I turn for GM advice nowadays, because this community is so creative and helpful.

Regards,
Chernobyl