Psionic questions

[Renen]

I was wondering 2 things on psionics:
1) When a power says 1 round/level does it mean manifester level? (ie. longer duration if overchanneled for example)
2) Can you twin (metamagic) a summoning power? (Summoning 2 things at once). I do see a problem with summoning a thing to the exact same spot but... maybe you can?

[sideswipe]

I was wondering 2 things on psionics:
1) When a power says 1 round/level does it mean manifester level? (ie. longer duration if overchanneled for example)
2) Can you twin (metamagic) a summoning power? (Summoning 2 things at once). I do see a problem with summoning a thing to the exact same spot but... maybe you can?

well in answer to your summon question, i would say that if you could you would not have to summon them in the same spot. looking at all the examples of multiple creature summoning then you would get to pick location of both.

and yes it does mean manifester level.

[Andreaz]

I was wondering 2 things on psionics:
1) When a power says 1 round/level does it mean manifester level? (ie. longer duration if overchanneled for example)
2) Can you twin (metamagic) a summoning power? (Summoning 2 things at once). I do see a problem with summoning a thing to the exact same spot but... maybe you can?
Yes to the first. Duration does scale automatically.
To the second: Unless the power states you can't have two at once (I think Complete Psi adds that to the Construct?), yeah sure. Place them in adjacent locations around a cross in the grid (that's how you center most aoe effects anyway)

[Renen]

I was mostly looking to summon two constructs, since im ignoring the CPsi nerf.

And here's another question:


Psicrystal Containment [Psionic]

Your psicrystal has advanced enough that it can hold a psionic focus that you store within it.
Prerequisites
Psicrystal Affinity, manifester level 3rd.
Benefit
You can spend a full-round action attempting to psionically focus your psicrystals. At any time when you need to expend your psionic focus, you can expend your psicrystal’s psionic focus instead, as long as the crystal is within 5 feet of you. Psionically focusing your psicrystal works just like focusing yourself. The psicrystal cannot focus itself—only the owner can spend the time to focus the crystal.

First the feat says: Full round action.
THEN, it says: ocusing your psicrystal works just like focusing yourself.

So what if focusing myself works as a move action (see where im going with this?)

[Feint's End]

First the feat says: Full round action.
THEN, it says: ocusing your psicrystal works just like focusing yourself.

So what if focusing myself works as a move action (see where im going with this?)

you can restore both foci as 2 moveactions. If you have access to hustle for example you could spend 1 moveaction 1 swift action +3pp to restore both and use a power with 2 metapsionic effects.

Twinning Astral Constructs should be a tactic only used in few situations though unless you are very high level because the loss of 3 astral construct levels is a pretty hefty tax. They are most likely too weak for CR appropriate encounters (level 20 with overchannel summoning 2 9th level might be worth it though).

[Renen]

brb, stacking Metapower (Astral Construct) :D

[Renen]

So it IS possible to twin AC? Just double checking for my GM. :D

[Psyren]

I was wondering 2 things on psionics:
1) When a power says 1 round/level does it mean manifester level? (ie. longer duration if overchanneled for example)
2) Can you twin (metamagic) a summoning power? (Summoning 2 things at once). I do see a problem with summoning a thing to the exact same spot but... maybe you can?

1) Yes
2) Yes

Note that both will have the same configuration (i.e. you cannot choose different menu abilities for each one.)

[Renen]

Ahhh psyren. One of the few people here I trust in regards to psionic material :D

[Feint's End]

brb, stacking Metapower (Astral Construct) :D

Not a bad idea :D. However from my understanding you can't use metapower for the same metapsionic feat for the same power more than once.
2 level lower constructs is better still

[Renen]

Nah, it specifically says u can take feat twice and apply to something else or to the same thing. So just stack it 4 times and u are good :D

And I got another question now: if im wildsurging, it says the surge gives me free pp.
Now, can I put those free PP towards just making power cheaper? So I manifest a 5 pp power, overchannel 3, and only pay 2 pp for the power?

[Zaq]

First, it's important to remember that Wild Surge and Overchannel, while similar, are not the same thing. You mentioned Overchannel earlier—remember that Overchannel does NOT give you "free PP" the way Wild Surge does.

Anyway, Wild Surge specifically says that the "extra power point" it gives must be used to augment the power. It can't be used just for manifesting it. So if you were 5th level, and you wanted to manifest a 1st level power augmented to 5 PP, you could Wild Surge for 2 points, pay 3 PP, and get the 5 PP effect. You wouldn't have to augment it to full (paying 5 PP for the 7 PP effect). However, you could NOT manifest a 3rd level power by paying 3 PP and letting the Wild Surge pay 2 PP. The Wild Surge's free PP ONLY works for augmenting the power, not for paying the initial cost.

I'm not sure how this works with metapsionic feats, but I believe that they're considered base cost, not specifically augmentation, and Wild Surge specifies only augmentation is possible.

[Psyren]

Nah, it specifically says u can take feat twice and apply to something else or to the same thing. So just stack it 4 times and u are good :D

You can apply each one to the same power, but must choose a different metapsionic feat to pair it with. So to apply Metapower to a power 4 times, you must be manifesting that power with 4 different metapsionic feats attached; this will be difficult given that you will need a psionic focus for each one. Also, each one can only be reduced to a minimum of zero, so you can't pick 1PP or 0PP feats and shift the remaining reduction to Twin.



And I got another question now: if im wildsurging, it says the surge gives me free pp.
Now, can I put those free PP towards just making power cheaper? So I manifest a 5 pp power, overchannel 3, and only pay 2 pp for the power?

Your question is confusing, are you wild surging or overchanneling? Keep in mind you can normally only do one or the other.

In any event, Wild Surge cannot make a power cheaper than its base cost. If you are manifesting a 3rd-level power (5PP) it will always cost you at least 5PP.

[Feint's End]

Nah, it specifically says u can take feat twice and apply to something else or to the same thing. So just stack it 4 times and u are good :D

And I got another question now: if im wildsurging, it says the surge gives me free pp.
Now, can I put those free PP towards just making power cheaper? So I manifest a 5 pp power, overchannel 3, and only pay 2 pp for the power?

It specifically says another metapsionic feat so by RAW you can't apply it to the same metapsionic feat twice ... you even can't apply the same metapsionic feat to a different power but that is kinda borked and probably not intended.

While I understand if a dm allows it to be used on different powers for the same metapsionic feat it clearly is neither allowed nor intended to be applied to one power more than once for the same metapsionic feat.

[Renen]

Ahh right. I totally missed the last sentence thanks. But as for wild surge, that helped too. I was talking about wildsurge, and it good to know that I can use it to make augmentation cheaper even if I dont go up to full ML with it.

[Feint's End]

Ahh right. I totally missed the last sentence thanks. But as for wild surge, that helped too. I was talking about wildsurge, and it good to know that I can use it to make augmentation cheaper even if I dont go up to full ML with it.

Yes you can but as has been mentioned you cannot pay less than the basecost ..

For example a 3rd level power always costs you at least 5 pp
You could of course use wildsurge +4 (for example) at level 20 and you would only pay 5 for the effect of 9 but wild surge doesn't enable you to pay less.

In pathfinder you can expend your focus to manifest a power for the base cost + wild surge amount for free BUT the chance for enervation doubles.

[Psyren]

Pathfinder has additional modifications to surging (e.g. you cannot choose to surge for less than your maximum surge amount, but to compensate the enervation % is fixed anyway) so be mindful of which edition you're playing in.

[Immabozo]

yTwinning Astral Constructs should be a tactic only used in few situations though unless you are very high level because the loss of 3 astral construct levels is a pretty hefty tax. They are most likely too weak for CR appropriate encounters (level 20 with overchannel summoning 2 9th level might be worth it though).

I've used twinned AC to make an opponent waste their turn inst-gibbing them. But thats situational at best


2 level lower constructs is better still

That is a situation call. If you want a grappler, one high level one might be better, might not. A damage sponge might be better with the 2 levels, might be better with the 2 constructs, etc.

[Renen]

Now, about linked power and metapower. Is manifesting power that has metapower and one of the above actually lower the cost? Even though they dont have any pp cost?

[Renen]

So what I mean is:
I am ML 10.
I have metapower astral construct (linked power)
I manifest Astral Construct linked with Vigor (its a lvl 1 power right ?)
Since I have the -2 pp, can I now have AC at 11, and vigor at 1?

[Feint's End]

I've used twinned AC to make an opponent waste their turn inst-gibbing them. But thats situational at best

That is a situation call. If you want a grappler, one high level one might be better, might not. A damage sponge might be better with the 2 levels, might be better with the 2 constructs, etc.

Valid strategy. Versatility is, after all, everything that matters.

[Psyren]

You would only get -1 for Vigor. The other -1 would be wasted - it cannot be applied to AC to make that power cheaper. (Metapower has a reduction floor of zero, it cannot go to negatives.)

In other words, linking a 1 PP metapower will be exactly the same as linking a 2 PP metapower.

[Feint's End]

So what I mean is:
I am ML 10.
I have metapower astral construct (linked power)
I manifest Astral Construct linked with Vigor (its a lvl 1 power right ?)
Since I have the -2 pp, can I now have AC at 11, and vigor at 1?

Not quite like that. The PowerPoint cost of the second power is effectively the metapsionic cost meaning for metapower to have an effect the first power has to be modified by the feat.

Now let's look at your case. You have metapower (astral construct modified by linked power).

You have ml 10 so you can spend up to 10 pp.
You want to manifest astral construct for 9pp and add vigor for 1 pp with linked power.
The metapsionic cost is 1 (the pp you paid for the second power) which gets reduced to 0 so you would pay 9pp for the construct and get a free vigor for 1pp next round.

In this certain case it is of course smarter to manifest the second power for at least 2 pp (because those are free) so at least vigor for 2pp or maybe even 3

Astral construct for 9 + vigor 3 (cost = 1) = 10pp = limit auf level 10.

Edit: Psyren said it simpler. You basically get the linked power for 2 pp cheaper

[Renen]

Ahh... I thought it would get added up 1st. So 11pp AC +1 pp w/e is 12 pp which gets reduced by 2, making it within ML limit

[Feint's End]

Ahh... I thought it would get added up 1st. So 11pp AC +1 pp w/e is 12 pp which gets reduced by 2, making it within ML limit

this would be the case of the combination of both would be the metapsionic cost but this is not the case. only the cost of the second power is the metapsionic cost

[Renen]

Btw, discussing Psicarnum Infusion and Midnight Augmentation combo with people and following argument came up.


Doesn't work because of this:


Once per day, you can invest essentia into this feat and choose a particular psionic power that you know

If you don't invest essentia, the feat has no power associated with it, and you're reducing the cost of nothing. Treating is as if it had essentia in it is not investing essentia in it, so you cannot choose a power.

Now, what you CAN do is infuse the feat with just one essentia and have infinite PP with just that power, but it's not '2 PP off of every power I have ever.'

Did I misunderstand the feat for all this time? :D

[Feint's End]

Btw, discussing Psicarnum Infusion and Midnight Augmentation combo with people and following argument came up.



Did I misunderstand the feat for all this time? :D

Depends on how you understood the feat for all this time but it is true that it only applies to one power per day which you have to designate at the time you invest essentia in the feat.
One day you could designate energy missile and only use it on energy missiles. The next day you could designate another power and only use it on that power for that day.