Leadership/Paladin shenanigans

[Nibbens]

I'm wondering what the hive-mind thinks of this:

Let's play with hypotheticals. I have a pally who gets a mount at lvl 5 with an intelligence of 6. This mount progresses as a Druid's animal companion who gets feats every so many levels. Under feats it can take Cosmopolitan - which allows it to read and speak two languages.
Boom! Now my mount talks? Or am I imagining things?

Now, let's throw a bigger monkey wrench into the works.
My Paladin takes leadership at 7th level: which allows him to attract a cohort.
The Pally wants his cohort to be his mount. Not a standard request at all, but if the player wants this type of "superbond" is there a legal way to do it? I mean, the simple fix is "don't level the mount past 5th level that way when you hit seven, the mount could be the cohort." Is there any ruling that a player MUST level their mounts/animal companions with the character? Or can that be held off in some way?

Third: Now, let's get real. IF number 1 (My mount can now talk) is true and number 2 (there is a legal way to hold my mount back from leveling) is true, would this be true also:

Would my mount turned cohort now be eligible for class levels leveling him up as normal? How would you rule this scenario?

aaaaaand, go!

[Kudaku]

While it's a fun argument, I really don't think "your animal companion can now speak" is an intended effect of Cosmopolitan.

The rest of it I'll leave for someone more knowledgeable than me in the mysterious ways of animal companions.

[Vhaidara]

by RAW, I think Cosmopolitan would allow that. And because it is an intelligent mount, I would allow it.

I do not believe there is a way to make your mount your cohort.

And I suppose it could take levels, but I pose a question: Where is it getting XP to level from? Are you now demanding a double share (one for the pally, and the other for his horse)?

A fellow player in one of my campaigns actually did something similar: he has a pet awakened effigy pseudodragon (clockwork baby dragon) named Pip. Now, at some point, the GM just gave us some random amount of uneven XP, and we realized that, pooled together, it was 500. So we gave it to Pip. The GM laughed, and later on gave Pip another 500XP. Causing him to level up. So we gave Pip a level in Bard, since it had already been established that he doubled as a music player (yes, the player has a playlist). And in fights, he hides in the back and uses a little +1 to hit and damage Inspire Courage. We're a group of 6 level 11 characters. It has no real effect, but it's cool and fun. So Pip gets the XP that we aren't ravenous for, or when something cool happens involving him.

[grarrrg]

Under feats it can take Cosmopolitan - which allows it to read and speak two languages.
Boom! Now my mount talks? Or am I imagining things?

The "Chewbacca" rule is in effect.
Chewbacca can _understand_ a wide variety of languages, but due to the shape/configuration of a Wookie's mouth, he is unable to _speak_ those languages.
The mount can _understand_ the new languages, but it still cannot speak them, as it lacks the proper mouth-configuration-stuff.


The Pally wants his cohort to be his mount.
A few things about how Leadership works are entirely up to the DM to decide.
The only thing the feat says on the matter is "A cohort is generally an NPC with class levels,"
If the DM allows you to do Mount=Cohort stuff, then you'll have to ask him how he wants it to work.


And I suppose it could take levels, but I pose a question: Where is it getting XP to level from? Are you now demanding a double share (one for the pally, and the other for his horse)?

Read the Leadership feat, it say show XP works:
"A cohort does not count as a party member when determining the party's XP. Instead, divide the cohort's level by your level. Multiply this result by the total XP awarded to you, then add that number of experience points to the cohort's total."
It doesn't "take" any XP from the party's pool, it gets it's own 'sub-XP'.

[Segev]

Sadly, there's no benefit to such a "super-bond." Now, if you want to do silly shenanigans with Leadership, I point out to you that Leadership is a feat. You and your mount both get feats. Take Leadership, yourself, for a cohort (perhaps a squire), and have your mount do the same (to provide your squire with a mount, maybe, or to recruit a groom whose job is to be the buff-provider for all three of you, your squire, and your mount).

[grarrrg]

Take Leadership...and have your mount do the same

Just pointing out that technically Leadership has a requirement of Character level 7. A Mount would not qualify.

[Nibbens]

Sadly, there's no benefit to such a "super-bond." Now, if you want to do silly shenanigans with Leadership, I point out to you that Leadership is a feat. You and your mount both get feats. Take Leadership, yourself, for a cohort (perhaps a squire), and have your mount do the same (to provide your squire with a mount, maybe, or to recruit a groom whose job is to be the buff-provider for all three of you, your squire, and your mount).

Yeah, No benefit at all. This is just a thought monster.


Just pointing out that technically Leadership has a requirement of Character level 7. A Mount would not qualify.

Oh! That's an interesting catch - I wonder about the phrasing, however.


The "Chewbacca" rule is in effect.
Chewbacca can _understand_ a wide variety of languages, but due to the shape/configuration of a Wookie's mouth, he is unable to _speak_ those languages.
The mount can _understand_ the new languages, but it still cannot speak them, as it lacks the proper mouth-configuration-stuff.

This sounds like something that has been discussed thoroughly - however is there any official word on this? Also, could you provide link directing me to this discussion, because that would be awesome to read! haha.

[Iwasforger03]

I think having the mount take leadership (the DM CAN allow it) is more likely to be ultimately enjoyable for you than having the mount as a cohort. Having the mount as a cohort feels like you are wasting the cohort or the mount, one or the other.

If you are playing Pathfinder then you could take the OTHER paladin ability instead of mount, then take an awakened horse as your cohort, then give that horse class levels.

[Coidzor]

Having a creature be able to speak isn't really shenanigans. You can do that with a Pearl of Speech for, what, 600 gp?

Now, you want Paladin Mount Shenanigans, you wanna go to the Supermount (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/967311) and its descendants, especially when mixed with dragons.