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SweaterKittens
2014-06-30, 09:30 PM
In the campaign I'm about to embark into, I'm playing a the Dragonrider class, from Super Genius Games. This class gets minor arcane spellcasting at level 5 (0th and 1st level spells) with 2nd level spells at level 8, 3rd level spells at level 11, and finally fourth level spells at level 14. I have literally no experience playing a spellcaster, so I'm at a loss for what's good, what's absolute necessity, and what's sleeper op. I've sorted through the spell list, but it's a bit daunting having so many options, and I'm not sure what kinds of things I'll need. I feel like the classic Fireball/Blaster spells won't be very good, given the relatively low level I'll be casting at (My Dragonrider level -4), so I'm at a bit of a loss on what to pick. 3rd party spells are A-Okay as well.

I'll mostly be building as a charger, relying on my lance and my dragon's breath weapon for deeps. So what spells are clutch/necessary/would be incredibly helpful?


Class level 1st through 4th / no spells
Class level 5th / 0th: 4, 1st: 2
Class level 6th / 0th: 4, 1st: 2
Class level 7th / 0th: 5, 1st: 2
Class level 8th / 0th: 5, 1st: 2, 2nd: 2
Class level 9th / 0th: 5, 1st: 3, 2nd: 2
Class level 10th / 0th: 5, 1st: 3, 2nd: 2
Class level 11th / 0th: 6, 1st: 3, 2nd: 2, 3rd: 2
Class level 12th / 0th: 6, 1st: 3, 2nd: 3, 3rd: 2
Class level 13th / 0th: 6, 1st: 4, 2nd: 3, 3rd: 2
Class level 14th / 0th: 6, 1st: 4, 2nd: 3, 3rd: 2, 4th: 2
Class level 15th / 0th: 7, 1st: 4, 2nd: 3, 3rd: 3, 4th: 2
Class level 16th / 0th: 7, 1st: 4, 2nd: 4, 3rd: 3, 4th: 2
Class level 17th / 0th: 7, 1st: 5, 2nd: 4, 3rd: 3, 4th: 2
Class level 18th / 0th: 7, 1st: 5, 2nd: 4, 3rd: 3, 4th: 3
Class level 19th / 0th: 8, 1st: 5, 2nd: 4, 3rd: 4, 4th: 3
Class level 20th / 0th: 8, 1st: 5, 2nd: 5, 3rd: 4, 4th: 3

avr
2014-06-30, 10:39 PM
Message and Detect Magic are the zero level spells I've got most use out of, and Prestigitation and Dancing Lights probably come next.

First level buff spells are a little lacking here. True Strike to make that charge count, or Shield to help your AC, or maybe Keep Watch to avoid getting ambushed at night. Air Bubble if you need to go underwater, but that's quite situational; Silent Image if your DM is illusion-friendly.

When you get 2nd level spells, Bears Endurance will buff your dragon's breath weapon for +2 DC, and Glitterdust to light up invisible targets (and occasionally blind people) seem like they'd help.

ericgrau
2014-06-30, 10:48 PM
Feather fall, web, levitate, invisibility, sleet storm, haste.

Not much good at 1st level but the ability to use scrolls, wands and staffs is what's really nice. I'd scroll just about everything 1st level, get a wand of invisibility, and staff of powerful high level spells. You may use staffs with any spell level, even way higher than what you can cast. As long as the spell is on your class' spell list (if it could cast it at level 20).

Don't waste a turn on a buff, it's a trap. If anything scroll a buff for the rare times that you have nothing better to do. Likewise scroll anything that's "for when you face X". Because that will happen maybe once.

SweaterKittens
2014-06-30, 11:34 PM
Excellent, that gives me some good stuff to start with at least, thanks guys. Since I can only cast up to 4th level spells at level 20, I don't think I can scroll/staff anything higher than that, although I could feasibly get some 4th level spell scroll/staffs much sooner than level 14.

And no buffs? Are you sure? Since turn 1 of any combat will likely be me taking flight and gaining altitude, it seems like the perfect time to cast something like Shield, Mage Armor, or Bear's Endurance. Also on that note, why would one take Shield over Mage Armor? Shield has a fairly short duration, and the ability to block Magic Missiles seems to be not as good as the hour+ duration of Mage Armor.

Keep in mind also that my character will only be able to wear light armor so as not to incur Arcane Spell Failure, so an AC boosting spell might be appropriate.

I was also considering Alter Winds as a 1st level spell to pick up at some point, in case my DM decides he's tired of my shenanigans and tries to shut down the skies. Protection from Arrows also seems like it would be a good option later, since my mount will be a prime target for all sorts of ranged hate. Any thoughts on those?

avr
2014-06-30, 11:43 PM
Mage Armor and light armor don't stack; Shield and light armor do. A chain shirt is cheaper than a spell and doesn't usually cost actions.

Protection from Arrows is nice but situational again, it only protects from normal arrows and not +1 arrows, lightning bolts, flying meleers, whatever. Resist Energy is more likely to be important but both are likely to be ones you access via scroll or wand.

If you want a 2nd level defensive spell that you're likely to cast a lot try Mirror Image.

SweaterKittens
2014-07-01, 12:01 AM
Ah, I didn't realize that they didn't stack, that clears things up. I may take a physical shield once my ride skill is high enough to deal with the combined armor check penalty I'll incur, so I may take Shield early and replace it later. You're right about protection from arrows and whatnot as well, I'll probably end up taking those in scrolls/wands.

Mirror image is golden, I'll either wand that or keep it as one of my go-to spells - and with share spell I can cast it on my dragon.

ericgrau
2014-07-01, 12:08 AM
And no buffs? Are you sure? Since turn 1 of any combat will likely be me taking flight and gaining altitude, it seems like the perfect time to cast something like Shield, Mage Armor, or Bear's Endurance. Also on that note, why would one take Shield over Mage Armor? Shield has a fairly short duration, and the ability to block Magic Missiles seems to be not as good as the hour+ duration of Mage Armor.
If there's any way at all to attack then you should do that instead. Can you fly 10 feet above a foe's head and lance him perhaps? It's the buffs that take the place of attacks that are a net loss. If you have nothing at all better to do then ya you might prepare just 1 buff for that time. If you only sometimes get the chance, then scroll the buff. A scroll of shield is only 25 gp.

I forgot false life. It's really nice since you can cast it ahead of time and so it doesn't replace an attack. Ya mage armor is only nice if you're armorless.

Spore
2014-07-01, 12:14 AM
I hope my pointers are helpful. They are written under the idea of permanent spells that are not prepared but simply known (as I understand the spellcasting feature).

1:
Shield (because twohanded Lances do more damage)
True Strike (cast while getting into position for a charge)
Protection from Evil (easy deflection bonus and immunity to mind-affecting)
Mirror Strike (chargers tend to overkill enemies, charge between two enemies and split your damage! Also reverse flanking which is nice)

2:
Invisibility (yeah, out of combat trick)
Glitterdust (reveal those invisibile guys)
Resist Energy (imho a musthave)
Mirror Image (combine with good AC)

3:
Heroism (only if you lack moral boni on attack)
Monstrous Physique (size bonus to Strength, nat AC)
Haste
Displacement

4:
Stoneskin
Dimension Door

SweaterKittens
2014-07-01, 12:34 AM
I could certainly try to attack on the first round - I neglected to remember that with a reach weapon I can poke them in the skull while hovering just out of their reach. However, if I decide to set up a charge I may not be able to first-turn attack - but in that case I will probably sacrifice my rider's action so that the dragon can use her breath weapon while gaining altitude. In either case, a scroll is beginning to seem like a much better idea, for things like shield.

Sporeegg, you are correct in assuming that they are known and not prepared, and while the Dragonrider has the option to swap them out every few levels, I'll definitely want a kit that's more or less what I want in the long run. Your pointers are absolutely helpful, thank you, and I appreciate the layout as well. Resist Energy may be situational, as I'm playing a Tiefling so I get 5 electricity/fire/cold resist base, and then Dragonrider gives me a truly stupid amount of fire resist as I level up - but having it scrolled or wanded will be good for those situational encounters, and I will likely pick it up after I see what kinds of things my DM throws at us - and when I have more slots available for second level spells.

Spore
2014-07-01, 12:59 AM
I might be not neutral but my DMs have made Resist Energy worthwhile. Be it Immolation Devils, White Dragons, Unseelie Fey with cold attacks, Liches utilizing fire spells or our own sorcerer wanting to use his fireblasts more freely.

That being said, Resist Energy really starts carrying its weight after CL 7 (level 13 for you) when it bumps up to Resistance 20. It's a really solid candidate for me. The Duration is also great. I agree that 2nd level has a great array of spells but keep Resist Energy if you're the only one with that spell on his list.

SweaterKittens
2014-07-01, 03:00 PM
Good to know. We've got a Synthesist Summoner in the party as well, I'm fairly sure he gets it as well at some point - but in a party of four, possibly five, it couldn't hurt for us to both to have it, especially once I hit 13 and it goes up to 20.

I was taking a look through some 3rd party Spells, and found these ones that I think will be handy for filling gaps - I'd love some opinions on whether they're hit or miss:

1: Reactive Armor (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/3rd-party-spells/rite-publishing---3rd-party-spells/r/reactive-armor) - Grants +2 AC as an immediate action (Possibly good for tight spots)
1: True Shield (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/3rd-party-spells/rite-publishing---3rd-party-spells/t/true-shield) - +20 Deflection AC vs. next attack (Possibly good against burst mobs/ballistae, etc.)
1: Precipitate (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/3rd-party-spells/rite-publishing---3rd-party-spells/p/precipitate) - Creates rain in a radius, giving concealment and possibly making the ground icy. (Would be good for hit-and-run tactics with the lance)
1: Breathtwist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/3rd-party-spells/rite-publishing---3rd-party-spells/b/breathtwist) - Changes your breath weapon to a different energy type (With share spell, I can use it on my dragon and allow it use one of the other breath types. I can see this being very handy)
2: Magnify Vision (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/3rd-party-spells/louis-porter-jr-design/magnify-vision) - Doubles the range of your vision (Definitely not a first pick, but could be handy later, especially having flight available to my character)
3: Trade Wind (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/3rd-party-spells/super-genius-games---3rd-party-spells/trade-wind) - Increases fly by 10ft and maneuverability by one step (Could be handy as a late pick, probably situational at best)

Breathtwist seems by far the best, even if it's only for one use at a time. I also feel as though it's worth mentioning that while I will be building for charging, my mount will be building for breathweapon deeps, taking Metabreath feats from 3.5 and the Draconomicon, and Ability Focus

Kurald Galain
2014-07-01, 04:26 PM
1: Reactive Armor (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/3rd-party-spells/rite-publishing---3rd-party-spells/r/reactive-armor) - Grants +2 AC as an immediate action (Possibly good for tight spots)
At low levels, you probably don't want to spend a slot on this. at higher levels, it doesn't stack with the ubiquitous Ring of Protection. I recommend taking Stone Shield instead.



1: Precipitate (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/3rd-party-spells/rite-publishing---3rd-party-spells/p/precipitate) - Creates rain in a radius, giving concealment and possibly making the ground icy. (Would be good for hit-and-run tactics with the lance)
Great spell, it's an improvement over Obscuring Mist which is already pretty good.


1: Breathtwist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/3rd-party-spells/rite-publishing---3rd-party-spells/b/breathtwist) - Changes your breath weapon to a different energy type (With share spell, I can use it on my dragon and allow it use one of the other breath types. I can see this being very handy)
Not worth the standard action. Also note that you can't in fact cast it on your dragon unless you've got Share Spells.

SweaterKittens
2014-07-01, 04:34 PM
In that case I'll probably nix Reactive armor in favour of the better low level options. There are certainly no shortage of 1st and 2nd level spells I could use instead.

As for breathtwist, I do indeed get Share Spell at 2nd level as a Dragonrider. This one I may just scroll for situational use, but given the fact that I am feat-ing out my dragon for breath weapon focus, it would be a shame to have it completely unusable against something immune/resistant to fire.

FabulousFizban
2014-07-01, 08:45 PM
grease, web, haunting mists, stinking cloud, haste, snowball. snowball. snowball. snowball. hahahaHAHAHAHA