Question concerning alignments

[Trum4n1208]

I believe the issue is resolved, thanks for reading! Any thoughts or ideas, please post!

Howdy all,

I'm getting ready to start a new game, and went for a Half-Elf Ranger who has undergone a number of transformations. I ultimately decided on a kind of anti-hero character, kind of a bad man who does evil things because he believes they have to be done, and frequently works as a mercenary and a bounty hunter. I was inspired by Robert B. Parker's "Cole & Hitch" series, Westerns in which the main characters are essentially lawmen for hire. Though they're lawmen, when you strip away the details, they basically kill men for money, albeit for a good cause. In one of the books, Hitch, the narrator, states that "Good men don't do what we do," and I decided I really liked that idea, of badmen doing something they're good at to further a good cause. The character I've ended up with is the kind of man who would kill an unarmed man or torture someone for information if he believed it would further a good cause. He never works for free. He has a mercenary's honor; as he'd say "I won't promise to work for you forever, but while I work for you, I won't sell you out for more money, and my word is good." He isn't moved so much by the plights of others, but will selflessly defend friends and loved ones, and isn't unlikable, though he is somewhat intimidating.

Now, my question is, what would his alignment be? I've always personally felt neutral is a bit of a cop out, so for me, that answer is right out. I kind of like the idea of neutral evil, but frankly I'm just not sure. So far, the party is shaping up to be primarily neutral and evil.

Thanks for your time, and best wishes.

[FidgetySquirrel]

Personally, I'd say LN or LE, depending on just how bad your character really is. The reason I say lawful is that your character clearly has an honor code that he is dead set on adhering to. While he may not always go by the letter of the law, he strongly follows his own, personal, set of laws. Considering just how open to interpretation the alignment system is, I'd rule that as a lawful attitude.

Talk to your DM, though. Some people don't buy into the whole 'honor code=lawful' thing.

[daemonvatis]

I would agree that we have a solid moral code here, and that probably means Lawful.

As for the other axis, my gut reaction is "not Good." I actually am a fan of being neutral on one axis in this kind of case, and I'm not sure if this character warrants Evil. Taking a more systematic approach, my group often described evil as "wanting others to suffer/taking pleasure from their pain," basically sadism of some sort. We described Good as "wanting others to be well off/hating to see others in pain." This approach would make your character Good because of his motives. It's just his methods that are questionable.

[SweaterKittens]

As the others have said, I think the Lawful end of the spectrum is likely the most appropriate, since his code and commitment to being a man of his word makes him seem like he'd Lawful to me. Lawful Neutral if his intentions and methods are /mostly/ justifiable, and for the right reason.

[Jeff the Green]

Yeah, LN-leaning-LE. Depends on how picky he is about who he works for. If he regularly contracts for people who want him to do evil things (and he doesn't refuse), he's solidly LE. Just being a mercenary who lives by his code is LN.

[Trum4n1208]

I'm treating alignment as kind of his nature, if that makes sense, my logic here being a good person wouldn't be willing to cross the lines he'd cross. In his view, he does the hard things that need to be done, but no one is willing to do them. Gnoll pack endangering a village? He'd find their den and slaughter them down to the last pup (is pup correct?) if thats what it took, and it wouldn't bother him. Child is host to a devil, and the only option is to kill the child or possibly endanger the party? Killing the child is a perfectly reasonable option to him. Some innocent shopkeeper knows where the dangerous criminal mage is? My ranger would cripple him for life if thats what it took to find the mage. He wouldn't take pride or joy in doing it, but he wouldn't go to sleep feeling terribly conflicted.

As of right now, the things he'd do as a mercenary aren't a big deal as, being level one, he's primarily just done bounty work and hunting. No 'being hired by the baron to drive off peasants who can't pay their taxes yet,' but we'll see if I'm willing to take him that route, or just keep him as a kind of merciless, pitiless force that just happens to be working for good, but could just as easily be a real villain. Doesn't go out of his way to kill, but is willing to do so for pay, defense of his life, or to cultivate his reputation (very Machiavellian thinker, believes "better to be feared than loved," and actively cultivates that reputation as a tool; some drunk miner calls him out and tries to start a fight, he'd kill him. Wouldn't take pleasure in it or make him suffer, but he'd absolutely do it.)

Saying all this, I realize I want to play as a bloody sociopath =P.

[Millennium]

LE. Definitely LE.

On my first reading, I had some trouble figuring out if this character was LN or LE. One of the two, certainly, because you're right: good men don't do what he does. Certainly the universe is not going to take a very positive view of some of his actions.

But on my first reading, it also sounded like this was someone who wasn't actually completely comfortable with his actions. It seemed like this was someone who talked a lot about his actions being "necessary" and "for the greater good," but that left me wondering who he was trying to convince. Perhaps this was someone who was trying very, very hard to bury his conscience, but couldn't quite do it completely.

But on a second reading, I noticed that you use the S-word. That has implications. If he well and truly has no conscience, then that definitely points toward an Evil alignment. I'm leaving my first thoughts in this post, as a record of how one might play a non-sociopathic version of this character. But the thing is, despite lacking in conscience as we tend to think of such things, sociopaths are not actually easier to play than other characters. They may not be driven by conscience, but they still have their own reasons to do what they do.

Your character might work for the greater good, but he would still have needed to be convinced that the greater good was worth working for. A simple appeal to conscience, or the idea that this was somehow the right thing to do, wouldn't have worked: that's an appeal to conscience, and your character doesn't have one. So what puts him on the side of the angels?

One possibility is that your character could have gotten into trouble in the past. What he did isn't much more than a background detail in this case: he might still not feel any remorse for it. But he was caught and punished, possibly out of proportion compared to what he did, and he really doesn't want to go back to that. He could have escaped from that punishment -which makes him a fugitive from justice- and mercenary work gives him a chance to vanish into the battlefield, but you may still have occasional trouble with the law. Or perhaps he served his time, and just wants to stay out of trouble. Mercenary work is dirty work, but it's satisfying employment in its own way, and it keeps his nose clean.

A darker vision -one that dovetails well with the ranger's Favored Enemy ability- would be a character driven by hate. Someone out there needs to be taken down a few pegs, if not wiped out entirely. Your character is convinced that helping society is the best way to do that -the great mass of men will eventually crush them, just by being bigger and stronger- but sometimes society needs a little help with that, and this is where you come in.

You could also take this back to childhood experiences. You might have been a temple orphan, raised by an order of paladins who would describe you as "a promising but... problematic... student". Even now, you believe you're "keeping the code" in your own way, despite not choosing the paladin's path. The paladins themselves would be horrified to learn the way you keep it.

The bottom line is that there are lots of different ways to play a character like this. It's really up to you how you do it. These are only a few of the possibilities.

[Trum4n1208]

You're right. See, when I said he was a sociopath, that was me realizing I had inadvertently made him one. So I softened up his back story a bit, made him LN. Now, he's someone who takes great pride in capturing his targets, and is willing to do whatever it takes to get to them. As such, he still has a ruthless and pitiless side to him, but it's still not out of any kind of sadism, just a drive to succeed. Still has his code and honor, but not the kind of person to join someone's struggle out of the goodness of his heart. He'd demand payment or have to be working towards his own gain (target is with opposing faction, something like that). Another big motivation for adventuring is to better himself. As a painter appreciates a good brush stroke, or a blacksmith a well made blade, he takes pride in the perfectly aimed arrow or an exceptional parry.

Gives me a bit more freedom to play the character as I'd want while still keeping with the idea that this guy isn't quite on the side of the angels, he's more something they unleash on the bad guys.

Thanks all!