Can't make my mind

[marjan]

I want to make a specialist wizard for next campaign I'm playing in but I don't know which specialty school to choose. Schools that I'm thinking of are Transmutation, Conjuration and Abjuration. For prohibitied schools I'm thinking about Evocation, Enchantment and Necromancy. I was thinking to take options from Complete Mage (extra slots for specialty school spells) & from PHII (trade familiar for spell-like ability). The class levels I was thinking was Wizard3/Master Specialist10. I can think several reasons to take each school, but I just cannot decide.Reasons:

-Abjuration: All School Esoterica about this one are good (if not great) and it will also make it easier to qualify for Initiate of Sevenfold Veil (which I would like to try out in practice).

-Conjuration: This school has useful spells for every level so the option from Complete mage won't be problem. All school Esoterica are good especially Major (quicken some of your Conjuration spells is great). Also option for Conjurer from PHII seems great to me.

-Transmutation: I personally like the spells from this school. Also option from the PHII for Transmuter is good.

So if you think any of these schools is better I'd like to hear the reason. Also for levels above 13 would it be better to take archmage or Initiate of Sevenfold Veil or maybe some other class? Which of the feats would be good for the build.

[squishycube]

Pick conjuration and see if you can get your DM to let you use some if the variants in Unearthed Arcana, summoning is fun :-)
I wouldn't take Abjuration.
Many buffs are Transmutation, its a good school if you like to buff people (as opposed to killing stuff yourself.) Transmutation has some Save or Suck spells too, think Slow.

You could also consider Enchantment, home of many Save or Die and Save or Lose spells.

[oriong]

One of the most common recommendations is divination, since it brings with it only one forbidden school. You do sacrifice some benefits of specialization because of it.

If you want 'full' specialist benefits conjuration is probably best, like you said it's just about bursting with useful spells.

[marjan]

Is there any way to take a look at Unearthed Arcana online?

[oriong]

Most of the variations found in UA are in the SRD,

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm

that's likely what you want. If it's allowed Rapid Summoning is pretty much a must-have.

[marjan]

One of the most common recommendations is divination, since it brings with it only one forbidden school. You do sacrifice some benefits of specialization because of it.

If you want 'full' specialist benefits conjuration is probably best, like you said it's just about bursting with useful spells.

I was thinking about that but with option from Complete Mage I would have to memorize 3 Divination spells at each spell level and I can't think of any spells that I would need all the time.

If anyone has suggestions about this let me know.

[marjan]

By the way, is there any race with bonus to Int without LA?

[NullAshton]

Grey Elf, +2 Int -2 Str.

[Piccamo]

Grey Elf, +2 Int -2 Str.
And all the other normal Elf racials.

[Fualkner Asiniti]

By the way, is there any race with bonus to Int without LA?


Deep Imaskari, from Underdark. Good book if you don't have it.

[Bears With Lasers]

I was thinking about that but with option from Complete Mage I would have to memorize 3 Divination spells at each spell level and I can't think of any spells that I would need all the time.

If anyone has suggestions about this let me know.

Don't take that option from Complete Mage. It's A Trap. A regular diviner works juuuust fine. Examples of useful spells at each level involve True Strike/Identify, See Invisibility, Unluck, Assay Spell Resistance, Telepathic Bond, Analyze Dweomer or True Seeing, Greater Arcane Sight, Moment of Prescience, Foresight.

[Jacob Orlove]

Focused Specialist is amazing with any deep school, and if you include enough supplements, pretty much every school is deep enough. At that point, there's enough duplication of effect between schools that your best option is to just give up as many as possible for other benefits. Conjuration is probably best for this, though, even if you go outside of core. At first level, you have four or five 1st level spells (a 20 Int gives you 3 Conjuration spells plus two bonus spells). That's as many spells per day as a Sorcerer!

Transmutation has a lot of good spells, but is only worth specializing in if you're willing to abuse the Polymorph line (which I don't recommend doing).

As for banned schools, Evocation, Enchantment, and Necromancy are all fine choices. Abjuration is probably your next best choice, unless you're going to get to the highest levels (where Mind Blank is required).

However, Specialist (Abjuration) 3/Master Specialist 10/I7FV 7 is an excellent progression if you are going to make it to the high levels, and it lets you put Antimagic Fields on your Rogues, which is bad times for enemy casters (super cheesy bad times, but still bad times).

There's an excellent discussion on this topic here: http://bb.bbboy.net/thegamingden-viewthread?forum=1&thread=794

[tarbrush]

Abjuration is probably your next best choice, unless you're going to get to the highest levels (where Mind Blank is required).

Don't ban abjuration. Really. You may not need all the spells all the time, but it's so hard to replicate it's many "You are no longer screwed" spells, and some spells like the various protection from elements spells, mind blank and dispel magic are too vital, for the rest of your party as much as you, to drop.

But yeah, evocation, enchantment and necromancy are my 3 drop schools roughly in that order. Lotsa debate about the last two, but most people would agree that evocation is the easiest school to do without.

[Stevenson]

I always, always ban enchantment and necromancy, enchantment because hopefully a bard can do it for you (and it really isn't all that great anyway), necromancy because I'm not evil.

As for specialist, conjurers are great, and my second favorite specialist school (gotta love illusions). So many spells are conjuration, especially complete arcane I think. If I recall, Complete Arcane conjuration spells are great.

[marjan]

Don't take that option from Complete Mage. It's A Trap. A regular diviner works juuuust fine. Examples of useful spells at each level involve True Strike/Identify, See Invisibility, Unluck, Assay Spell Resistance, Telepathic Bond, Analyze Dweomer or True Seeing, Greater Arcane Sight, Moment of Prescience, Foresight.

It is a trap if you specialize in Divination, but with other schools it seems ok. Without that option from Complete Mage Diviner is ok but with it I'm not so sure and School Esotericas for Divination aren't that impresive. Diviner is definitly option and maybe the best option if I stick with the wizard all the way.

If I stick with Conjurer are there any good PrCs I could take after lvl 13? And what about feats (except Augment Summoning - I already know about it)?

[Bears With Lasers]

There's nothing evil about most necromancy spells. Especially mainstays of debuffing like Ray of Enfeeblement, Ray of Exhaustion, and the like.

Edit: No, it's a trap either way, because it *sharply* limits your versatility, which is your strength. Seriously, I can't think of any time where I've only prepared two spells that *weren't* of any one school. A good spell selection cherrypicks.

[SpiderBrigade]

Bears, an optimized spell selection cherrypicks. I think it's possible to still be quite effective with that versatility-limit in place - you'll just be more focused on one set of tactics. Certainly, some situations will come up which are now much harder...but you won't go from superpowered batman wizard straight to sucking.

Will a regular non-ultra-specialized wizard be more powerful because of his versatility? Almost guaranteed. Are you hoplessly gimping yourself? I really don't think so.

There are worse things than operating a build at less than %100.00 efficiency. Are some choices so terrible as to be a huge mistake? Of course. Monkey Grip for instance is really just that bad. But something that puts you at ~90 percent? I don't think that warrants the same kind of "OMG don't take that, it's a trap!" response.

[Bears With Lasers]

I don't know--"only two spells of any school but X per level" is a huge limitation. You won't suck, obviously, if you pick effective spells of your school--but the drop in versatility will be dramatic.

[Jacob Orlove]

You lose one versatile slot per spell level--that's not much at all, especially with bonus spells to make up the difference. You'll notice the limitation most each time you gain a new spell level, since instead of 1 normal, 1 bonus, and 1 specializiation, you'll have 0 normal, 1 bonus, and 3 specialization. However, having more highest level spell slots available is excellent, particularly at low levels. Even one level past that, you're up to 2 versatile slots, and that's plenty, especially since Conjuration can do *so much*. You have Grease, Web and Glitterdust at low levels, Summon Monster Y at every level, the various Fog and Wall spells, the teleport style effects (Benign and Baleful Transposition at low levels, Dim Door and Teleport later), and no-save, no-SR direct damage if you want it (orb spells), plus winners like Phantom Steed, Evard's, etc etc.

Seriously, at first level, you can totally have Grease, Wall of Smoke, Benign Transposition, and Color Spray. That's *all three* saves, plus a utility spell.

[marjan]

I don't know--"only two spells of any school but X per level" is a huge limitation. You won't suck, obviously, if you pick effective spells of your school--but the drop in versatility will be dramatic.

Three spells actualy. If we assume it is bad option to use then I have some other questions:
1. Which school would be better for specialization?
2. Which school(s) to ban?
3. Except Master Specialist & Initiate of Sevenfold Veil which PrCs are good for Conjurer/Diviner?
4. Are there any other options/feats specific for the school specialization (like Rapid Summoning) that are good?

[SpiderBrigade]

Yes, as they said, it's THREE spells. You only are losing out on one of your normal "any-school" slots, and gaining an additional 2 of your chosen school (for a total of 3 gained). And then you still get your bonus spells from INT. And can use scrolls, as usual, just in case (I mean for your non-prohibited schools, that is).

Again, not disagreeing that it's a drop in versatility and, therefore, power. I just don't think it's nearly as big, or as catastrophic, a drop as you do.

Edit: and, yes, you do feel the versatility pinch more at lower levels, where you aren't getting the full 4 spells of each level. But I would argue that at lower levels you don't need nearly as much flexibility, as fewer enemies will have weird resistances that you need to work around.

[Stevenson]

Also, not being completely versatile isn't automatic suck. It just means, horror of horrors, that you might not completely own in every possible situation and every possible encounter. Yes, you might actually have to depend on other people, a.k.a the whole point of an adventuring party in the first place.

[oriong]

Versatility can actually be a vulnerability as well, it's not always the best way to go. It may broaden the scope of what you can deal with, but it narrows your repeatability which is still very important. That said it's never fun to have the option taken away, but there's very few situations where a properly equipped wizard will ever feel the lack. On the other hand they may feel it if they run out of spells for the same situation.

Alienist is an 'interesting' conjuring class if you don't mind being the creepy one (and can fit the requirements). Unfortunately some of it's abilities (such as insane certainty) are just not terribly useful but it's full progression, you don't lose out on net feats, and you end up with some useful abilities.

[marjan]

That is realy creepy. If it was less creepy it would be nice choice.

[oriong]

The Thaumaturgist prestige class is a divine focused summoner (requires lesser planar ally). If you can find some way to get that on your spell list (or convince the DM to allow a arcane version to be researched) it would be an option. It does give you a redundant Augment summoning feat, but it's still full progression and gives the Extended Summoning ability which definitely makes at least 3 levels of the class worthwhile. But it's a DM's gift unfortunately.

[ambu]

The best conjurer is I believe the one with variants of UA active. Summon as a standard action and get augment summoning! Bring it on! There are also some nice reserve feats from Complete Mage to consider. Finally, I would suggest that you drop evocation and necromancy or enchantment. Conjuration does most things that evocation does.

PS: Wasn't there a new PrC somewhere that let you summon creatures of other alignments?

[Yuki Akuma]

You don't need a PrC to summon creatures of an opposed alignment if you're an arcane spellcaster. A good wizard can cast evil spells all he likes (but if he overdoes it he might become evil himself).

[marjan]

The Thaumaturgist prestige class is a divine focused summoner (requires lesser planar ally). If you can find some way to get that on your spell list (or convince the DM to allow a arcane version to be researched) it would be an option. It does give you a redundant Augment summoning feat, but it's still full progression and gives the Extended Summoning ability which definitely makes at least 3 levels of the class worthwhile. But it's a DM's gift unfortunately.

Would Limited wish let me qualify for ability to cast planar ally spell (since I can use to cast Lesser Planar Ally - 4th lvl spell)?
Is there any explenation why (Limited) Wish always costs XP and Miracle doesn't in case of duplicating spell effects?

And what does Speak Language(none) on the Thaumaturgist class skills list means?

PS: Thanx for all suggestions.

[cupkeyk]

Simply taking arcane disciple lets you select a domain and add it to your spell list(assuming you can find your scrolls for those spells). Planar Ally is on the Summoning spell list and thereby qualifies you for Thaumaturgist.

[marjan]

Simply taking arcane disciple lets you select a domain and add it to your spell list(assuming you can find your scrolls for those spells). Planar Ally is on the Summoning spell list and thereby qualifies you for Thaumaturgist.

What god grants this domain in Eberron? In what book is the domain? And since I was planning of playing an atheist would it be possible to take the feat anyway (something like clerics do with cause)?

[Jade_Tarem]

My advice: If your DM hasn't already banned Initiate of the Sevenfold veil, enjoy it while you can. The ban is coming.

I'm actually playing a Master Conjurer now. It's a lot of fun.