GitP Prestige Class Contest II - Comments Thread - Luck of the Devil

[Fax Celestis]

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/mba/lowres/mban1794l.jpg

There are heroes of legend and of prowess, who defeat their foes through logic and might. But there are also 'accidental' heroes: those for whom the luck of the draw is an incredible advantage that seems to support their every turn. These are those heroes.

[hr]

The contest has begun and will continue until midnight, March 23rd (PST). Shortly thereafter, a poll will be opened for everyone to vote for their favorite. This poll will last until midnight of the 30th.

Post all entries on the entry thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35955). Any comments and discussions will take place on this thead.

[Fax Celestis]

On the Gambling Arcanist
Just a few quick notes: does he use the whole deck for the Luck of the Draw ability, and the effects only apply for suits he's chosen?

Spades: +2 bonus to what? And is it a typed bonus?

Stacking the Deck: does the Gambling Arcanist look at these cards?

The Flop: How many times per day is it usable?

Spray of Cards: Can Stacking the Deck be used in conjunction with this ability? Also, it seems a bit overkill. Perhaps removing the used cards from the deck for the rest of the day, which would make drawing a King a be-all-end-all but leave you down and out for the rest of the day.

That's all for now. Interesting idea, though.

[Phoenix Talion]

Well, drat. I was working on something that would fit this rather well, but it's a base class, not a PrC.:smallannoyed:

[ExHunterEmerald]

Hmmm...There's already been one card-based class, but I want to try enter something. I'll do some thinking tonight and see what comes up.

[Fax Celestis]

Well, drat. I was working on something that would fit this rather well, but it's a base class, not a PrC.:smallannoyed:

Making something from a base class into a PrC isn't too hard, really.

[That Lanky Bugger]

On the Gambling Arcanist
Just a few quick notes: does he use the whole deck for the Luck of the Draw ability, and the effects only apply for suits he's chosen?

She only uses the cards she's chosen, so her deck when she gets the Luck of the Draw ability would consist of thirteen cards. I might change this one to better fit into the Luck theme.


Spades: +2 bonus to what? And is it a typed bonus?

The bonus damage from spades is a Luck bonus, though I'll have to revise the class to reflect this.


Stacking the Deck: does the Gambling Arcanist look at these cards?

Sorry I didn't make this clear, but yes she does.


The Flop: How many times per day is it usable?

As many times as she likes. The balance is that the three cards aren't shuffled back into the deck and are instead unusable. So even a 10th level Gambling Arcanist (who has 39 cards in her deck) using the put back option from The Turn every time would only be able to use her cards on about 18 spells before she's reduced to being a spellcasting class with a 5 level spellcasting deficit.


Spray of Cards: Can Stacking the Deck be used in conjunction with this ability? Also, it seems a bit overkill. Perhaps removing the used cards from the deck for the rest of the day, which would make drawing a King a be-all-end-all but leave you down and out for the rest of the day.

Stacking the Deck can't be used, but cards used in Spray of Cards ARE lost in the use of it. Sorry I didn't make this clearer.


That's all for now. Interesting idea, though.

Thanks!

[Phoenix Talion]

Making something from a base class into a PrC isn't too hard, really.
Yeah, but once you turn a Spellfire Mage into a Prc, it's a bit too muct like a Wild Mage for my tastes.

[Elvaris]

Question: Could I just cut and paste my Rivalry Contest entry (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1843990&postcount=2) or do these have to be new material?

[Fax Celestis]

Unfortunately, no:


6. Entries copied from some other source (splatbook, alternate website, etc) will be disqualified. All entries must be a new creation, not one already posted. Abilities that draw on existing material do not violate this rule.

[ExHunterEmerald]

"Rules for adaptation?" You mean, if it's setting specific or how?

[Fax Celestis]

"Rules for adaptation?" You mean, if it's setting specific or how?

That'd be like the Adaptation entries in the newer books. Basically, suggestions for making slight alterations to the class to make it more applicable to specific characters, settings, or organizations; making it usable for different kinds of magic (or alternative magic systems); or making it usable for noncasters/casters.

[ExHunterEmerald]

Aaaaah.
...hm.
Gotta think about that.

[Fax Celestis]

Aaaaah.
...hm.
Gotta think about that.

No one else has done it yet, either.

[ExHunterEmerald]

Bombs awaaaaay!

[Fax Celestis]

I will comment on all entries tonight.

[Raveler1]

No one else has done it yet, either.

'Tis true, I haven't. Mostly because I've not seen these adaptation ideas before, so I have to figure it out by the seat of my pants - especially how to write them up. I also plan on putting together a sample character, but I haven't yet had time to do so. :-)

[Fax Celestis]

'Tis true, I haven't. Mostly because I've not seen these adaptation ideas before, so I have to figure it out by the seat of my pants - especially how to write them up. I also plan on putting together a sample character, but I haven't yet had time to do so. :-)

Basically, it's as small as three sentences to as large as what Emerald did in his. Just some ideas (or rules) for adapting the class to other situations.

[Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick]

My hat's been thrown into the ring; I do hope for comments, positive, negative, or indifferent. :smalleek:

I'm a tinge rusty, to be honest. So I feel odd entering a contest, but...it seemed like such a good idea, I had to post it.

[ExHunterEmerald]

Not bad, Shiny. You might consider something early in the class that allows them to drink a potion without drawing attacks of opportunity, though. Other than that, I don't think it needs much.

[belboz]

I'd also appreciate any comments/suggestions.

[ExHunterEmerald]

I'd also appreciate any comments/suggestions.
I haven't read any Pratchett yet, so it's all a blank to me. I'll take a closer look tomorrow. I have a ton of work backed up on me. :\

[Raveler1]

I've posted a sample character - I'm also working out a background and description, but that shouldn't be as time consuming as crunching out the stats had been. Are there any comments on the Lucky Charmer?

[Fax Celestis]

Lucky Charmer:

Mostly questions about the charms themselves. What type of bonus do the charms provide? Luck, I'd assume, but I don't see that noted. Also, can a charm be crafted that provides to multiple attributes (i.e. a charm that provides a +2 to attack, +3 to damage, and +4 to bluff checks)? Using that example charm, if it were a wood charm, would it then provide a +1 to attack, +2 to damage, and +7 to bluff checks?

Also, what type ((Ex), (Sp), (Su), (Ps), (In), &c) are the class abilities?

[Fax Celestis]

Black Cat:

Personal Jinx's area isn't very large, but it does improve. However, 20' isn't large, and that's what you're finishing with. Perhaps doing 15'/30'/45'?

What happens with Wrong Time with characters who are immune (say, a Paladin/Black Cat for a fear effect)?

The DC on Conflict Magnet isn't very hard, topping out at 15+Cha, unless you mean character level instead of class level, in which case it'd top out at 20+Cha and be more reasonably difficult.

Walking Disaster's range is strange. Line of Sight can either be really far, or really close, and also goes through things like Wall of Force. I'm not certain if that's the best range. Perhaps "within 60'" might be better.

Also, what type ((Ex), (Sp), (Su), (Ps), (In), &c) are the class abilities?

[Fax Celestis]

Fatefighter:

Skills: "...doesn't gain any new skills." Does that mean he retains class skills from his preceding class? Preceding classes? Or what?

Saves: Why three bad saves?

Lucky Strike/Lucky Break: What happens if I roll two ones in a row (oh horror of horrors)? Also, how often can they be used?

[Fax Celestis]

The Lady's Favorite:

Beginner's Luck lets someone Vorpal their target once per day. Perhaps an annotation about it causing criticals but not triggering abilities that require natural 20s?

Is he immune to all spells of the divination school?

Lady's Favor should probably note that it can be used after seeing the result but before the effect is determined.

What's the caster level on the Better Part of Valor SLAs?

Agent of Chance's DR 5 is a bit small. I'd make it DR 10/Law.

Miracles Happen: I think it'd make more sene to give him Miracle than Limited Wish, but I can see the balance here. Really up to you on that.

Also, what type ((Ex), (Sp), (Su), (Ps), (In), &c) are the class abilities?

[Fax Celestis]

Miscibilist:

Explosive Belch should probably allow a reflex save.

Something like Survival would make more sense for me on Discerning Palate. Also, he should get a bonus if he has Scent.

And a question about Miscibility in general: if I mix the same potion together twice, do I roll twice, or do I roll once and use the same result twice?

Also, what type ((Ex), (Sp), (Su), (Ps), (In), &c) are the class abilities?

[Fax Celestis]

Hapless Bystander:

Is Fortuitous Positioning usable an unlimited number of times per day?

Convenient Misstep should be usable more than once per day.

[Fax Celestis]

Song of Chaos:

What happens with multiple rolls of 1 or 20?

Song of Ultimate Chaos seems a bit odd, but it's workable.

[Duke of URL]

Song of Chaos:

What happens with multiple rolls of 1 or 20?

Multiple adjusted values less than 1 or greater than 20 would result in additional stacking effects. There probably ought to be some limit, though, on the off-hand chance that someone has modifiers so extreme that they basically continually get "out of range" modified rolls.


Song of Ultimate Chaos seems a bit odd, but it's workable.

I was kind of going for odd, so I'll take it as a compliment. :smallbiggrin: The idea is that by completely throwing fate to the wind, anything, and I mean anything, can happen. Over the course of a long engagement, warriors could turn to weaklings, half-orcs could be beacons of leadership, and wizards could become gibbering idiots who could slice you to ribbons with a dagger. The more people affected, the greater the chaos becomes.

Of course, the Song of Chaos himself/herself does have the ability to "stack the deck" a little with their almost certain high CHA and, in dire cases, the Luckmaster ability.

[ExHunterEmerald]

Fatefighter:

Skills: "...doesn't gain any new skills." Does that mean he retains class skills from his preceding class? Preceding classes? Or what?

I should've reworded, yeah. Basically, they retain class skills from previous the previous class.


Saves: Why three bad saves?
Because this guy's lucky, not good, and people in this class have chosen to exploit their fortune over their talent. I also thought it might make it interesting.


Lucky Strike/Lucky Break: What happens if I roll two ones in a row (oh horror of horrors)? Also, how often can they be used?
I'm gonna say one single reroll, unlimited times per day.

[Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick]

Miscibilist:

Explosive Belch should probably allow a reflex save.

Something like Survival would make more sense for me on Discerning Palate. Also, he should get a bonus if he has Scent.

And a question about Miscibility in general: if I mix the same potion together twice, do I roll twice, or do I roll once and use the same result twice?

Also, what type ((Ex), (Sp), (Su), (Ps), (In), &c) are the class abilities?
Good point on the belch; let's say DC20?

Survival eh? That'd make it hard for the intended takers of the class, but...it does make logical sense.
And I definitely agree on Scent.

If by 'the same potion' you mean two identical mixtures- identical in composition and preparation (i.e. produced by the same process/person), then logically, the result would be the same both times; thus, if you mix a potion of glibness and a potion of bull's strength twice, and both times you use potions made by the apothecary Yarbleflax, you get the same result, but the same two potions made by steve up the street would have, potentially, a different effect.

Of course, if you were asking about a mixture of two examples of the same potion mixed together (for double effect, I suppose?), to clarify; the miscibility table describes the results of the singular mixed potion, so you only roll once and use the result once, to describe said potion.

That's my understanding.

Adding types- mostly extraordinary, some supernatural.

[Raveler1]

I've updated the entry to include the types of abilities, as well as clarifying some of the charm crafting rules.

[ArmorArmadillo]

Black Cat:

Personal Jinx's area isn't very large, but it does improve. However, 20' isn't large, and that's what you're finishing with. Perhaps doing 15'/30'/45'?

What happens with Wrong Time with characters who are immune (say, a Paladin/Black Cat for a fear effect)?

The DC on Conflict Magnet isn't very hard, topping out at 15+Cha, unless you mean character level instead of class level, in which case it'd top out at 20+Cha and be more reasonably difficult.

Walking Disaster's range is strange. Line of Sight can either be really far, or really close, and also goes through things like Wall of Force. I'm not certain if that's the best range. Perhaps "within 60'" might be better.

Also, what type ((Ex), (Sp), (Su), (Ps), (In), &c) are the class abilities?
I'll go type the abilities immediately. Also, I like your suggestions on Personal Jinx and Walking Disaster. I'll change how Conflict Magnet works for a more reasonable save.

As for Wrong Time, it only delays things that would normally affect you, I'll make that more clear.

Thanks!

[belboz]

Thanks, Fax! I will incorporate all of these--except that I agree balance is an issue with Miracles Happen. A cost-free Miracle, once per month, potentially at CL 15, strikes me as too much.

Plus, one question. What does the following mean?


The Lady's Favorite:
...
Lady's Favor should probably note that it can be used after seeing the result but before the effect is determined.


I don't quite understand it.

Oh, and one other thing. Off the map doesn't exactly grant *immunity* to divinations. On the one hand, it's less, because a character with it doesn't need to lower spell immunity to receive, say, a True Seeing spell. On the other hand, it's more, because even spells that do not directly target the character (e.g., True Seeing, Legend Lore), and therefore are not susceptible to spell immunity, cannot be used to discover information about him (he can be invisible, displaced, or illusively disguised even to someone with True Seeing; Legend Lore turns up no information, even if he is legendary).

[Fax Celestis]

Thanks, Fax! I will incorporate all of these--except that I agree balance is an issue with Miracles Happen. A cost-free Miracle, once per month, potentially at CL 15, strikes me as too much.

Plus, one question. What does the following mean?



I don't quite understand it.

Oh, and one other thing. Off the map doesn't exactly grant *immunity* to divinations. On the one hand, it's less, because a character with it doesn't need to lower spell immunity to receive, say, a True Seeing spell. On the other hand, it's more, because even spells that do not directly target the character (e.g., True Seeing, Legend Lore), and therefore are not susceptible to spell immunity, cannot be used to discover information about him (he can be invisible, displaced, or illusively disguised even to someone with True Seeing; Legend Lore turns up no information, even if he is legendary).

Gotcha.

What I was trying to get at was that, the way it's worded, Lady's Favor can be used to reroll an attack roll after the DM has told you it's hit you.

Basically, he should see the result of the die roll, but have to decide whether or not to reroll before the DM tells you what happens as a result of it.

[belboz]

Actually, I decided I'd go for the best of both worlds in re Miracles Happen, by creating a "Minor Miracle" spell and giving them that.

Also, a sample character is now up, and (more or less) legibly formatted! Yay!

[TheDarkFuzz]

Hey, I made an entry.

Also, my miracle is better than your miracle. Nyah.

[Holocron Coder]

Hapless Bystander:

Is Fortuitous Positioning usable an unlimited number of times per day?


Yes, unlimited. That's probably a bad thing, eh?



Convenient Misstep should be usable more than once per day.

And actually, it says class level / 2, rounded up. So a 5th level can use it 3 times per day. Is that enough times?

[Fax Celestis]

Not bad. Should probably be explicitly specified though.

[Holocron Coder]

Actually, it's pretty explicitly stated in both cases.



Sometimes the bystander's luck is just odd, causing him to by someplace he wasn't a moment ago. Whenever a spell or attack targets the square the hapless bystander is in, the bystander may move 15 feet in any direction, as long as it causes him to land outside the area of effect. If the square chosen has difficult terrain or another character inside it, both are knocked prone into adjacent squares outside the area of effect (DM's choice). This may be used a number of times per day equal to the hapless bystander's class level.




A hapless bystander becomes extremely lucky in relation to attacks to his person. At 4th level, a hapless bystander may gain a dodge bonus equal to twice his class level for a single round, ending upon his next turn. This is due to him literally tripping over his own feet and falling prone to the ground, causing any and all attacks or spells aimed at his position to most likely miss. Spells that affect him regardless of direction or do area damage to the square he is in still affect him as normal. After using this ability, the hapless bystander is prone and takes all relevent penalties for such a position. Standing up at any time removes this dodge bonus. This ability can be used a number of times per day equal to half the hapless bystander's class level, rounded up and may be activated as an immediate action in response to another creature or character's actions. If it is not used as an immediate action during anothe person's turn, it takes a move action during his own turn to activate.

[Fax Celestis]

Then you're fine.

[belboz]

So, is it voting time?

[belboz]

Bump?
I need more words, so here are some more words. No, really, more words. Surely this is long enough!?

[Fax Celestis]

Bump?
I need more words, so here are some more words. No, really, more words. Surely this is long enough!?

I suppose it IS voting time. Voting thread(s) will go up tonight.

[Holocron Coder]

Is there a link to this voting thread? I can't seem to find it an I am curious.