Optimizing a Psion

[TeslaJr]

I decided to roll-up a Psion for a new campaign my group is starting, and I need some help optimizing it. We're starting at level 1, but we know it'll reach level 20, possibly higher. This will be a high power campaign, so most cheese is allowed (subject to DM approval, of course). So far, I was thinking of a Kalashtar Shaper 6/Thrallherd 5/Constructor 9, picking up a Warforged (that will be a Psychic Warrior King of Smack) thrall and using my constructs and thrall to do my dirty work (and my followers as expendable tools). With Psionic Repair Damage, I shouldn't have a problem keeping them healthy. I considered being a Warforged, but I prefer the Mindlink ability and bonus PP that Kalashtar gives, plus we have a cleric in the party and I can get a pretty good amount of health using the Vigor+Share Pain trick. Feat wise, I'm not sure: I'll probably pick up the obvious ones like Boost Construct, Overchannel, Mindsight, Psionic Meditation, and Feat Leech (Leech Feat?). I shouldn't have to worry about the number of feats because my DM ruled that Psicrystals do get feats and flaws are allowed. This is only my second time playing a Psion, so I figure there is better stuff out there than what I've got. Anything is helpful and like I said cheese is allowed.

[Snowbluff]

How about that Azure Talent trick? It'll always make sure you have a couple points of PP. I am in the camp that says it only gives 2 at a time, though.

Persistent Power and Overchannel are very handy.

[Captnq]

My Sig.
Get the EVD
Go To Folder Psionomicon.
Read everything in it.
You're Welcome.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

I have a really hard time believing the Azure talent trick works at all. It seems to rely rather heavily on both a weak semantic argument, and a very particular reading of some ambiguous grammer.

[AmberVael]

Here are some pieces of advice at varying levels of cheese and optimization.

1) Get Schism. Expanded Knowledge (Schism) should be one of the feats you pick as soon as you qualify for it (unless you can get Schism a cheaper way). Extra actions rule.

2) Acquire the Synchronicity power. I think its fine just on its own as it was intended, but it gets hilarious as soon as you start adding in things like Twin power to double actions gained from it.

3) Get a power point recharge trick. There are a few different methods around. You can find at least two of them here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?177889-Brainstorm-for-Psionic-Tricks-Tactics-and-Combos-Handbook) (Embrace of Mother Earth, MOI Recharge), along with a host of other psionic shenanigans.

4) Sense Danger power from Magic of Eberron (page 106). Allows you to use a power as an immediate action in the first round of combat, even if it is a surprise round. Don't bother augmenting it- use your action to manifest Synchronicity, which will give you a standard action that you can use for anything. Its cheaper, and gives you even more options.

5) Swarm of Crystals power. The damage isn't amazing, nor is the area it targets. What is amazing is that it is crazy reliable. Its an instantaneous metacreativity power, so it can be shot even into antimagic. No SR. No saving throw. No attack roll. When you're facing stuff with all kinds of absurd resistances, it just pulls its weight by being tough to avoid.

6) Here's one that's hard to pull off, especially when you're not a telepath, but the results... acquire these powers: Psychic Reformation, Fission, and Psychic Chirurgery. Manifest Fission. Have your Fissioned duplicate use Psychic Reformation to change their powers and feats (specifically, expanded knowledge feats) to a different selection that you like. Have them manifest Psychic Chirurgery to give all those powers to you. If your DM would interpret that you lose XP when you rejoin because of this, simply kill your duplicate and then use some form of restoration to wipe the negative level. Repeat until you know all powers.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Obligatory Psion Handbook (http://www.brilliantgameologists.com/boards/?topic=10238.0) link.

Warforged make the best Shapers, especially at 1st level. You can use Psionic Minor Creation to cover yourself in Black Lotus Extract, you can use Psionic Repair Damage for extremely efficient healing, and you can get Adamantine Body which requires no proficiencies and doesn't hinder your ability to manifest psionic powers. Plus later on you can get Improved Fortification and not even worry about the drawback thanks to Psionic Repair Damage. Not to mention putting Share Pain on your psicrystal and then sharing Psionic Repair Damage with it.

For your flaws I'd go with Insomniac and Love of Nature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?258440-The-quot-Best-quot-Flaws#30). Get Adamantine Body, any feat that gives you a point of essentia (Psiforged Body (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?39584-Soulforged-Feat-Race), Midnight Dodge, etc.), Thick-Skinned in Savage Species (DR 2/Adamantine becomes 4/Adamantine), and spend your bonus psionic feat on Psicrystal Affinity of course. Get Personal Construct (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a) at 5th. Take Midnight Augmentation and use it with Bestow Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/bestowPower.htm), so the augmentation becomes spending 1 additional pp to grant 2 additional pp. At 6th level you'll be able to spend 5 pp to give yourself 6 pp, and its efficiency increases at every even-numbered (manifester) level.

Note that you can pick up Overchannel to take Anarchic Initiate, and then once it gives you Wild Surge you can use Psychic Reformation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm) to replace Overchannel with a different feat since Anarchic Initiate will meet its own prerequisite. You can actually pick Psychic Reformation as your new power every time you gain a level, and immediately manifest it to modify any of your feats, skill ranks, and powers known including Psychic Reformation itself. You can get the feat Quick Recovery in Lords of Madness and the Psychic Enervation daze effect can be negated as a move-action (Will DC 10 + AA class level + Cha bonus) so it won't end up costing you an entire round when it happens. Anarchic Initiate gets better HP, skill points, and BAB than most psionic prestige classes and doesn't even cost you a manifester level. It also gives you the class skills you would need to dip a psionic adaptation of Mindbender to easily gain Mindsight. Also don't forget about Abjurant Champion and Paragnostic Apostle adaptations.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

3) Get a power point recharge trick. There are a few different methods around. You can find at least two of them here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?177889-Brainstorm-for-Psionic-Tricks-Tactics-and-Combos-Handbook) (Embrace of Mother Earth, MOI Recharge), along with a host of other psionic shenanigans.


I don't see how the MOI Recharge trick works as written... I might be missing something, but it seems to be missing a few points.

Midnight Augmentation only reduces augmentation cost, not base cost - at no point in the sequence are you augmenting any powers, so I don't see how that's helpful. (Why would you even want to augment synchronicity?)

I could see that if you used Midnight Augmentation on Bestow Power to the maximum allowable level (reducing the cost of augmentation to 2, then augmenting it once, making it cost 4 and give 4), and then linked it to synchronicity with metapower, you could end up with something that cost 3 and gave 4... though, I don't see why you'd need the psicrystal for that.

EDIT: Wait a minute, why are you not just using Metapower twice? It stacks, doesn't it? Synchronicity + Linked Power + Metapower X2 = -4 total cost, enough to complete eliminate the cost of the metapsionics, leaving you with a 1-point combo that gives you 2 PP. (And letting you manifest any power at -3 cost, so long as you use linked power.)

[AmberVael]

I don't see how the MOI Recharge trick works as written... I might be missing something, but it seems to be missing a few points.

Hm. Honestly, I just remembered that the guide had some methods listed (and that there were methods involving Magic of Incarnum), I didn't review them in depth before linking. I thought what they detailed was what you and Biff were saying, just using Midnight Augmentation and Bestow Power straight up, but on review it is something a fair bit more complicated. Mostly, I think a mistake was made with Midnight Augmentation there.

Of course, you can actually just cut midnight augmentation out of what they're doing entirely and replace it with say, Torc of Power Preservation, and it'll work out like they intended.

Edit: Or use metapower twice, sure.

[Vaz]

1. Have a Spell to Power Erudite be a part of the setting.
2. Take Linked Power as a feat.
3. Take at ECL18 Expanded Knowledge (Embrace the Dark Chaos)
4. Purchase a scroll of Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos, trading Alertness gained from your Psicrystal for Expanded Knowledge (Shun the Dark Chaos).
5. Have your Psicrystal move out of range, then move back, gaining Alertness again.
6. Manifest a Linked Power Embrace the Dark Chaos with Psicrystal's Alertness free of XP.
7. Regain your focus.
8. Manifest a Linked Power Shun the Dark Chaos free of XP.
9. Regain your focus.
10-Infinity; Repeat steps 5-9 until you have every feat in existence, then continue with toughness until you gain infinity*3 HP.

[TeslaJr]

Thanks for the replies guys! What do you think of this combination?

StP Erudite 10/Thrallherd 10

1st Thrall
Warforged Fighter 1/Martial Monk 2/Psychic Warrior 3/Sanctified Mind 5/Psychic Warrior +8

2nd Thrall
Kalashtar Shaper 5/Metamind 10/Shaper +3

Now, once I can, I'll cast Fusion and fuse with my first thrall. Next, I'll cast Astral Seed, quicksaving the body I have right now. Then I'll end the Fusion and kill myself, taking the ten days to reform the fused body. Once that's done, I'll cast Fusion again and fuse with my second thrall, giving me access to Font of Power. Next I'll activate Font of Power and use Temporal Reiteration Linked to another Temporal Reiteration to keep Font of Power up indefinitely for the cost of a swift action every other round. Using the unlimited power points I have now, I can keep Fusion up all the time, and since my body is partly Warforged I don't have to worry about sleeping. The way I see it, this turns me into a gestalt that can fight and cast at the same time using Schism and heal itself better than a cleric could using Psionic Repair Damage and Body Adjustment. So, what do you think? Will it work?

Edit: Spelling

[Halbaradkenafin]

A build I played was bouman (or other LA0 outsider race) psion 5/anarchic initiate 4. Pick up metamorphic transfer at level 6 and expanded knowledge (metamorphosis) at 9 (or play an egoist to do it earlier but I prefer shaper). Metamorphosis into a nightmare and Astral Project yourself, then morph into lantern Archon or some other outsider with greater teleport to drop you off at home. Hide your body somewhere secure and safe and go adventuring. Or break the economy with duplicate magic items.

If that isn't enough then metamorphosis into a djinn for su wish.

[Forrestfire]

Thanks for the replies guys! What do you think of this combination?

StP Erudite 10/Thrallherd 10

1st Thrall
Warforged Fighter 1/Martial Monk 2/Psychic Warrior 3/Sanctified Mind 5/Psychic Warrior +8

2nd Thrall
Kalashtar Shaper 5/Metamind 10/Shaper +3

Now, once I can, I'll cast Fusion and fuse with my first thrall. Next, I'll cast Astral Seed, quicksaving the body I have right now. Then I'll end the Fusion and kill myself, taking the ten days to reform the fused body. Once that's done, I'll cast Fusion again and fuse with my second thrall, giving me access to Font of Power. Next I'll activate Font of Power and use Temporal Reiteration Linked to another Temporal Reiteration to keep Font of Power up indefinitely for the cost of a swift action every other round. Using the unlimited power points I have now, I can keep Fusion up all the time, and since my body is partly Warforged I don't have to worry about sleeping. The way I see it, this turns me into a gestalt that can fight and cast at the same time using Schism and heal itself better than a cleric could using Psionic Repair Damage and Body Adjustment. So, what do you think? Will it work?

Edit: Spelling

Why stop there? Your thralls keep coming. Grab a thought bottle, then maybe attract a Factotum for Cunning Surge, a Warblade for maneuvers, Wizards for spells...

On second thought, don't do that, that would get really silly really fast XD

[TeslaJr]

Quick question about Temporal Reiteration and Temporal Acceleration: If I use Temporal Reiteration while during Temporal Acceleration, will I get stuck? I don't see anywhere about TA being dismissible, so I can't tell if using TR during TA will give me as many rounds of apparent time as I want, or if I'll be stuck forever.

[TeslaJr]

Why stop there? Your thralls keep coming. Grab a thought bottle, then maybe attract a Factotum for Cunning Surge, a Warblade for maneuvers, Wizards for spells...

On second thought, don't do that, that would get really silly really fast XD


Yeah, that's kinda why I only permanently fuse once :smalltongue:. Also, ToB is banned (all because I played a Warblade in a level 60 game once and he was surprised that a properly built Warblade at that level is ridiculously powerful for a martial character. It didn't help that this was basically his first introduction to the Warblade), so no Warblade or RKV fun :smallfrown:.

[Vaz]

Yeah, that's kinda why I only permanently fused once :smalltongue:. Also, ToB is banned (all because I played a Warblade in a level 60 game once and he was surprised that a properly built Warblade at that level is ridiculously powerful for a martial character. It didn't help that this was basically his first introduction to the Warblade), so no Warblade or RKV fun :smallfrown:.

What can a Warblade do against Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon? o.O?

[TeslaJr]

A lot, at level 60. I forget the exact build, but I was tossing around Colossal+++ Greathorn Minotaur Hammers at a range of a mile or more, dealing hundreds of damage per hit. I also had Factotum in there, which made it even more ridiculous.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Yeah, that's kinda why I only permanently fuse once :smalltongue:. Also, ToB is banned (all because I played a Warblade in a level 60 game once and he was surprised that a properly built Warblade at that level is ridiculously powerful for a martial character. It didn't help that this was basically his first introduction to the Warblade), so no Warblade or RKV fun :smallfrown:.

Your DM banned ToB because you were able to build a powerful martial character at level SIXTY?

...Some DMs really, really don't want melee to have nice things.

[Vaz]

A lot, at level 60. I forget the exact build, but I was tossing around Colossal+++ Greathorn Minotaur Hammers at a range of a mile or more, dealing hundreds of damage per hit. I also had Factotum in there, which made it even more ridiculous.

What can that do against CR60+ opponents though? Colossal+++ Greathorn Minotaur Hammers can't hurt a Wizard 20, much less one on an Epic Dragon Chassis.

[TeslaJr]

Your DM banned ToB because you were able to build a powerful martial character at level SIXTY?

...Some DMs really, really don't want melee to have nice things.

Right? I could understand him reworking the Manuevers, because some (looking at you Iron Heart Surge) are incredibly powerful, but to ban the entire book? Seems a little much.


What can that do against CR60+ opponents though? Colossal+++ Greathorn Minotaur Hammers can't hurt a Wizard 20, much less one on an Epic Dragon Chassis.
S**t gets weird at level 60, especially if you progress WBL to that point. I'll see if I can find the build I was using, but I can tell you that with 60 levels to work with (and all books allowed) you can come up with some fairly strange stuff.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

By the way, how much does a recharge trick on a psion actually break the game? I'm playing a Psion-Binder gestalt in a friend's game, and I'd like us to still be friends when it's over. :P

[Vaz]

Oh don't get me wrong, I understand it will be powerful - you should literally be decked out in artifact quality gear chosen by the gods - either given as a gift to you as a thank you for saving them, or by taking it off their still warm corpse - but then again, so will that Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon.

[Komatik]

Uh, as far as power point battery hilarity goes, isn't the MoI trick linked earlier needlessly complex? Why not just use Azure Talent and Psycarnum Infusion? Expend focus, 2 bonus PP. 6th level, 4. Enough to manifest Bestow Power for free. And at low levels 2/4PP is plenty for utility manifestations, which spares your actual PP pool for strenuous situations.

[TeslaJr]

Hey, can anyone out there clarify how (Greater) Arcane Fusion works with the StP Erudite? The way I interpret it is that it allows me to cast two spells/powers using only 1 UPPD, Arcane Fusion.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Uh, as far as power point battery hilarity goes, isn't the MoI trick linked earlier needlessly complex? Why not just use Azure Talent and Psycarnum Infusion? Expend focus, 2 bonus PP. 6th level, 4. Enough to manifest Bestow Power for free. And at low levels 2/4PP is plenty for utility manifestations, which spares your actual PP pool for strenuous situations.

Because a lot of people don't agree that that works. It relies on a weak semantic argument (See, it just says "Treat it as if" it had essentia invested in it! You're not actuall investing essentia, so you can do it more than once per day!) as well as a very specific interpretation of the wording. ("As if it had" could mean "As if it had just had essentia put in it" or "as if it were already full of essentia"; also, how much of the ability the "Once per day" applies to.)

[Psyren]

I could see that if you used Midnight Augmentation on Bestow Power to the maximum allowable level (reducing the cost of augmentation to 2, then augmenting it once, making it cost 4 and give 4.)

That's exactly how it works. Once you've achieved parity, all you need is one more cost reducer (like a Torc of Power Preservation, or Earth Power), and you're good to go - infinite PP.

And that's under the conservative interpretation of Midnight Augmentation. With the other one, you don't even need any items.

(For the record I agree that Azure Talent is dubious.)