Servants ( typemoon) vs elminster aumar

[duburu]

if we was to take the current elminster and pit him again the servant of the holy grail how will it go. will he died instantly or will he just hurp durp i kill you all

[Sith_Happens]

The "current" Elminster is in 4E and therefore nerfed heavily enough that he'd get stomped in seconds.

[Eldan]

Did he even survive to 4E? I thought pretty much all non-immortal NPCs died in the timeskip.

[Alleran]

Did he even survive to 4E? I thought pretty much all non-immortal NPCs died in the timeskip.
He makes WotC too much money to kill, so yes, he survived.

As to the actual question, he could hold his own against some of them, perhaps, but against most he'd likely go down. The Nasuverse has some ridiculously powerful Servants with equally ridiculously broken Noble Phantasms.

[Tyrant]

The "current" Elminster is in 4E and therefore nerfed heavily enough that he'd get stomped in seconds.
This information is out of date. As of the last book I have read (Elminster Enraged) his powers were back in effect and Mystra was alive once again (she apparently didn't completely die this time, but was not much beyond a shadow until the end of this book). I haven't read the book after that, The Herald, but apparently Elminster curb stomps some characters that should've put up quite a fight. So, "current" Elminster is probably as powerful as ever. No idea who the other folks are so I have no guess if that is powerful enough, just wanted to point out that things have changed since the 4E FR guide came out (with the 5E one not too far off I believe).

Did he even survive to 4E? I thought pretty much all non-immortal NPCs died in the timeskip.
Elminster is essentially immortal thanks to the Silver Fire. There were also non-immortals that survived through various means. The setting is dripping with magic after all.

[Sith_Happens]

If "his powers are back" means "back to his 3E 'has every spell and access to any items he wants'" self, then he probably wins.

[Prime32]

The problem is that even with every spell and magic item, Elminster doesn't always use them effectively. Though at the same time he tends to make up new uses for them that aren't in the rules.

I'm guessing his spells would be able to pierce Berserker's God Hand, but if he was stabbed by Rule Breaker would that take away his Chosen of Mystra goodies?

[Mx.Silver]

He makes WotC too much money to kill, so yes, he survived.

As to the actual question, he could hold his own against some of them, perhaps, but against most he'd likely go down. The Nasuverse has some ridiculously powerful Servants with equally ridiculously broken Noble Phantasms.

Yes, it does rather depend on what servants we're talking about. And also which war he's getting thrown into - if that's what's meant to be happening.

[Tyrant]

If "his powers are back" means "back to his 3E 'has every spell and access to any items he wants'" self, then he probably wins.
My exposure to the character has been through the novels and I honestly never got that impression even during 3E. Lots of spells and magic items along with the favor of the Goddess of Magic (along with tremendous plot immunity), sure, that he has had. But every spell and any item? I think that is for the RPG so it's clear he can be what you need/want him to be.

To answer your question though, he appeared as strong as ever in the end of Elminster Enraged.

[Dusk Eclipse]

If it is Elminster against all of the servants working together at the same time, I definitely give it to the servants. IIRC Saber is pretty much immune to magic so she and Berserker can probably "tank" while Archer uses throw nasty broken Phantasms (caliburn?) or Lancer could just use Gae Bolg, who I guess would bypass any defences pretty much on the spot... or Gilgamesh can use those chains that can bind divine spirit.

[Eldan]

My exposure to the character has been through the novels and I honestly never got that impression even during 3E. Lots of spells and magic items along with the favor of the Goddess of Magic (along with tremendous plot immunity), sure, that he has had. But every spell and any item? I think that is for the RPG so it's clear he can be what you need/want him to be.

To answer your question though, he appeared as strong as ever in the end of Elminster Enraged.

IIRC, bis Staats explicitely say that he has every spell.

[duburu]

Ok at his peak elminster vs the servant gooooo

[Prime32]

If it is Elminster against all of the servants working together at the same time, I definitely give it to the servants. IIRC Saber is pretty much immune to magic so she and Berserker can probably "tank"Saber is immune to standard modern-day magic. Against large-scale rituals or spells of equivalent power, she's just highly resistant. Elminster's epic spells should still work, and he should be able to inflict moderate damage by throwing prismatic spheres or whatever.

A larger problem is that D&D has a lot of spells specifically designed to counter magic-resistant enemies, like golems. On top of that Elminster has access to Silver Fire, which IIRC is a Supernatural ability and thus not subject to Spell Resistance.

or Gilgamesh can use those chains that can bind divine spirit.The chains bind only gods. A demigod can theoretically break them, and against someone who isn't divine they're just normal chain.

[GenericMook]

Honestly, a lot of the Servants have pretty crazy abilities in one form or another. If we're going to bring in Fate/Zero Servants, it gets even wackier.

Honestly, though, all you have to do is distract him enough to get True Assassin to land a blow against him. You don't even have to bring in stuff like Gae Bolg (which breaks even Archer's best defensive NP) or the Gate of Babylon.

[Eldan]

I think the question boils down to how smart Elminster is with his spells. Which optimization level are we talking about? Average D&D novel wizard throwing fireballs? Loses hard. Average tabletop RP wizard? Has a chance. Mildly optimized? Probably wins. Tippyverse? Not even a contest.

[Frozen_Feet]

I'm not well versed in either Elminster books or Typemoon universe, but if I recall right, in Typemoon there's only a small selection of "true magic" including stuff like time travel, resurrection of the dead and something else. Most of magecraft is just "something you could do within constraints of physics, but with less the effort".

D&D Wizardry and especially divinely granted magic are different beasts alltogether. Especially Epic magic is basically miracles from God, except God doesn't have a say and goes to weep in a corner when Wizards use it. As such, Typemoon resitance to "modern magic", ie. magecraft, can't be held as convincing defense against high-level D&D magic.

[Eldan]

Yeah. Resurrection is mid-level magic. Time travel is available in small forms quite early, major time-travel is late level, but available to Elminster.

[BWR]

In El's defense, most Greenwood wizards have useful stuff other than Fireballs available, and El has never been portrayed as one who habitually uses Fireball when something less single-minded can work.
But his greatest strength is this: Elminster is written by Greenwood, so he will always have exactly the right spells prepared or on a scroll or in a magic item or spontaneously granted to him by Mystra. Should he get into trouble one of the other Chosen will likely come along, and failing that Mystra will step in.

[Sith_Happens]

I think the question boils down to how smart Elminster is with his spells. Which optimization level are we talking about? Average D&D novel wizard throwing fireballs? Loses hard. Average tabletop RP wizard? Has a chance. Mildly optimized? Probably wins. Tippyverse? Not even a contest.

I'm going to hazard a guess that "as smart as he is in the books (on average)" is what we should be going with. I'll leave it to people who have read his books to elaborate upon how smart that actually is.

[Pronounceable]

Ok at his peak elminster vs the servant gooooo
1) Nasuverse and DnD rules are two entirely different things that cannot play well together so comparisons are futile and fruitless.
2) Voyager Witches >>>>>> both combined

[Prime32]

1) Nasuverse and DnD rules are two entirely different things that cannot play well together so comparisons are futile and fruitless.Actually the Servants have D&D alignments on the status screen. :smalltongue: That's just the start of things - Zero Berserker has an ability which doubles his success rate on saving throws, and there are frequent references to Strength checks and Luck checks. The original explanation is that Shirou's mind found it easiest to interpret the information by expressing it as RPG stats, though the format was carried over in later works for consistency.

[Frozen_Feet]

Yeah, people often forget just how big influence D&D has been on JRPGs and, consequently, other forms of Japanese fantasy. Since Nasuverse has many riffs on JRPGs, many direct comparison between the two works of lore are not just possible, they're easy and obvious.