Returned [Template]

[TheElfLord]

Alright, just made this template for an upcoming game. My main question is, is this a balanced template for +1 to the challange rating?

Returned
Returned are servants of dark powers who have been sent back into this world by their dark masters. Particularly cruel or evil souls are chosen for this task. Returned are most often given to mortal supplicants/servants in return for part of the supplicant’s soul.

Returned is an acquired template that can be added to any evil humanoid or monstrous humanoid NPC.

Size and Type: The creature’s type changes to Undead. Do not recalculate base attack bonus, saves, or skill points. Size is unchanged.

Hit Dice: Increase to d12s

Speed: Same as base creature

Armor Class: +6 Natural Armor

Attack/Full Attack: The Returned retains all the attacks of the base creature

Special Attacks: The Returned retains all the special attacks of the base creature.

Special Qualities: The Returned retains all the special qualities of the base creature and gains the following:
Damage Reduction 10/silver and magic
Fast healing 5
Resistances: Cold 5 and Electricity 5
Turn Resistance 2
Blindsight 120ft
Abilities: Str +6, Dex +4, Int +2
Feats: The returned gains power attack and improve initive if the base creature meets the qualifications and doesn’t already have those feats.
Challenge Rating: Same as base creature +1

Returned Weaknesses/Limitations:
Nocturnal: The Returned can only be called upon after nightfall and returns to its masters realm at daybreak
Minion: A returned is under the control of a mortal on the prime material plane. Control is established by having a part of the corpse of the returned in the controller’s possession. A returned must follow all commands of its controller.
Running Water: A returned cannot cross running water that is deeper than half its height, even by means of a bridge.

[TheElfLord]

Well considering that 30 people have looked it this without replying I'm going to assume that it is niether overly weak or overly strong and is fine to use in my game.

[dead_but_dreaming]

I've compared it to other templates and I think it's fine. :smallsmile:

[Harkone]

I think more like +2; the ability score modifications, the fast healing, the bonus feats, the high natural armor bonus, and high damage reduction (especially DR that's more than just x/magic) seem to put it closer to templates like the half-fiend, which on average are +2. Even with the restrictions/limitations, a +2 seems more balanced. The limitations you list are unlikely to apply when the PC's are facing a Returned Foe (since the DM sets the time [night] and place [away from water] of the encounter anyway).

That said, I really like the concept. I may just go ahead and use it in my campaign, if that's alright. May I ask under what campaign circumstances these creatures will be appearing in your game?

[Closet_Skeleton]

A bit similar to Risen Martyr. I like this a bit more than Risen Martyr because that didn't work as a Prc.

God: You have done well my servant. Your sacrifice has saved millions of lives. However you are still needed.

Paladin: Urr... There's a problem.

God: What?

Paladin: I didn't take the Nimbus of Light feat, I don't qualify for that Prc.

[magic8BALL]

...isnt Nimbus of Light a spell anyway?

so the template...

+2 CR and about +2 LA... cuz there are people who will want to play this... (me... and some of my gaming group)

[Closet_Skeleton]

...isnt Nimbus of Light a spell anyway?

It's an Exalted Feat.

[magic8BALL]

...well there you go... it's also a handy spell from the Complete Divine...

[Iituem]

Uh... this is +CR 4-6, +LA 6-8 stuff.

The hit die alone merits an LA/CR +1, with the natural armour it's easily a +2, especially given that it apparently stacks with a creature's natural armour (it should be a +3, if that is the case). DR brings this up to 3/4, fast healing to 4/5, all resistances (including turn resistance) to 5/6, blindsight to 6/7 and abilities to 8/9. The weaknesses do not affect combat, but do affect players, so the CR remains the same and the (naturally slightly higher) LA becomes about equal to the CR. You're looking at a CR of 8-9, quite easily. A party who kills a hated foe of equal level at level 12, then two campaigns and four levels later faces him as a Returned are going to have a very difficult time, as his CR is going to be 2-3 times higher than they are.

[TheElfLord]

Uh... this is +CR 4-6, +LA 6-8 stuff.

The hit die alone merits an LA/CR +1, with the natural armour it's easily a +2, especially given that it apparently stacks with a creature's natural armour (it should be a +3, if that is the case). DR brings this up to 3/4, fast healing to 4/5, all resistances (including turn resistance) to 5/6, blindsight to 6/7 and abilities to 8/9. The weaknesses do not affect combat, but do affect players, so the CR remains the same and the (naturally slightly higher) LA becomes about equal to the CR. You're looking at a CR of 8-9, quite easily. A party who kills a hated foe of equal level at level 12, then two campaigns and four levels later faces him as a Returned are going to have a very difficult time, as his CR is going to be 2-3 times higher than they are.

See I find these ideas very interesting, because I based the Returned off of a weakend form of a vampire, which is CR +2. The Natural Armor, Ability scores, fast healing, and damage reduction are all straight from the srd vampire entry. I left off all of the vampire's special attacks and some of its special qualities (alternate form and such) so I felt lowering it to a +1 was justified for CR.


That said, I really like the concept. I may just go ahead and use it in my campaign, if that's alright. May I ask under what campaign circumstances these creatures will be appearing in your game?

Feel free to go ahead and use it. Basically I wanted an intellegent Undead that applied to a unique creature, like a vampire or lich, as opposed to more general massed types of undead. Liche was too caster focused, and I wanted different flavor than vampaires. At the moment I only plan to introduce one into my campign at the moment. His role will be as the muscle/visible actor for a subtle infernalist whom the pc's will know in a more mundane role and will have to uncover the connection between the seeminly harmless npc and the undead creature stalking the night.

[Icewalker]

I like it, but it does feel a little overpowered. +6 AC and DR 10/silver and magic is pretty powerful, although I don't really know what the normal power of these is like. I'd guess LA +2 or 3 but if it really is just a weakened vamp which was +2, I guess it's ok...

[Eighth_Seraph]

Uh... this is +CR 4-6, +LA 6-8 stuff.Agreed.

Well, that may be a bit high. I'd say a CR of +3-4 and an LA of +3 at the very least, though I'd still feel a bit uneasy with a +4. Just think: Blindsight 120 feet? That effectively means that sneak attacks are impossible without flanking, even against feats/spells/PrCs which allow sneak attacks against undead. The +6 natural armor? you just gave an ECL 2 character 6 natural armor. Think about that.

With the complete lack of prerequisites other than alignment and type it'd be very plausible and expected to see a level 1 Human barbarian taking this, putting the dump stat into Charisma and sacrificing nothing for it, getting a nice and tidy +8 AC, +3 to attack and damage, Damage Reduction to all but very specific weapons (perhaps you meant silver or magic?), getting two bonus feats basic to most warrior builds, Fast Healing 5 and the only thing it loses is that it can only come out at night (which is a flavor thing, translating to even better fighting conditions due to Blindsight) and that it has undying loyalty to its master. CR +3 at the very least.

[TheElfLord]

Allow me to make a comparason. Below are the ajustments used when creating a vampire, from the SRD. The bolded portions are abilites that also apply to the Returned. After the Vamp stats I will put an Italicized section with Returned abilites not found on the vampire stats. Remember the vampire template is +2 to Cr

"Vampire" is an acquired template that can be added to any humanoid or monstrous humanoid creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

A vampire uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.
Size and Type

The creature’s type changes to undead (augmented humanoid or monstrous humanoid). Do not recalculate base attack bonus, saves, or skill points. Size is unchanged.
Hit Dice

Increase all current and future Hit Dice to d12s.
Speed

Same as the base creature. If the base creature has a swim speed, the vampire retains the ability to swim and is not vulnerable to immersion in running water (see below).
Armor Class

The base creature’s natural armor bonus improves by +6.
Attack

A vampire retains all the attacks of the base creature and also gains a slam attack if it didn’t already have one. If the base creature can use weapons, the vampire retains this ability. A creature with natural weapons retains those natural weapons. A vampire fighting without weapons uses either its slam attack or its primary natural weapon (if it has any). A vampire armed with a weapon uses its slam or a weapon, as it desires.
Full Attack

A vampire fighting without weapons uses either its slam attack (see above) or its natural weapons (if it has any). If armed with a weapon, it usually uses the weapon as its primary attack along with a slam or other natural weapon as a natural secondary attack.

Vampires have slam attacks. If the base creature does not have this attack form, use the appropriate damage value from the table below according to the vampire’s size. Creatures that have other kinds of natural weapons retain their old damage values or use the appropriate value from the table below, whichever is better.
Special Attacks

A vampire retains all the special attacks of the base creature and gains those described below. Saves have a DC of 10 + _ vampire’s HD + vampire’s Cha modifier unless noted otherwise.
Blood Drain (Ex)

A vampire can suck blood from a living victim with its fangs by making a successful grapple check. If it pins the foe, it drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution drain each round the pin is maintained. On each such successful attack, the vampire gains 5 temporary hit points.
Children of the Night (Su)

Vampires command the lesser creatures of the world and once per day can call forth 1d6+1 rat swarms, 1d4+1 bat swarms, or a pack of 3d6 wolves as a standard action. (If the base creature is not terrestrial, this power might summon other creatures of similar power.) These creatures arrive in 2d6 rounds and serve the vampire for up to 1 hour.
Dominate (Su)

A vampire can crush an opponent’s will just by looking onto his or her eyes. This is similar to a gaze attack, except that the vampire must use a standard action, and those merely looking at it are not affected. Anyone the vampire targets must succeed on a Will save or fall instantly under the vampire’s influence as though by a dominate person spell (caster level 12th). The ability has a range of 30 feet.
Create Spawn (Su)

A humanoid or monstrous humanoid slain by a vampire’s energy drain rises as a vampire spawn 1d4 days after burial.

If the vampire instead drains the victim’s Constitution to 0 or lower, the victim returns as a spawn if it had 4 or less HD and as a vampire if it had 5 or more HD. In either case, the new vampire or spawn is under the command of the vampire that created it and remains enslaved until its master’s destruction. At any given time a vampire may have enslaved spawn totaling no more than twice its own Hit Dice; any spawn it creates that would exceed this limit are created as free-willed vampires or vampire spawn. A vampire that is enslaved may create and enslave spawn of its own, so a master vampire can control a number of lesser vampires in this fashion. A vampire may voluntarily free an enslaved spawn in order to enslave a new spawn, but once freed, a vampire or vampire spawn cannot be enslaved again.
Energy Drain (Su)

Living creatures hit by a vampire’s slam attack (or any other natural weapon the vampire might possess) gain two negative levels. For each negative level bestowed, the vampire gains 5 temporary hit points. A vampire can use its energy drain ability once per round.
Special Qualities

A vampire retains all the special qualities of the base creature and gains those described below.
Alternate Form (Su)

A vampire can assume the shape of a bat, dire bat, wolf, or dire wolf as a standard action. While in its alternate form, the vampire loses its natural slam attack and dominate ability, but it gains the natural weapons and extraordinary special attacks of its new form. It can remain in that form until it assumes another or until the next sunrise. (If the base creature is not terrestrial, this power might allow other forms.)
Damage Reduction (Su)

A vampire has damage reduction 10/silver and magic. A vampire’s natural weapons are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Fast Healing (Ex)

A vampire heals 5 points of damage each round so long as it has at least 1 hit point. If reduced to 0 hit points in combat, it automatically assumes gaseous form and attempts to escape. It must reach its coffin home within 2 hours or be utterly destroyed. (It can travel up to nine miles in 2 hours.) Any additional damage dealt to a vampire forced into gaseous form has no effect. Once at rest in its coffin, a vampire is helpless. It regains 1 hit point after 1 hour, then is no longer helpless and resumes healing at the rate of 5 hit points per round.
Gaseous Form (Su)

As a standard action, a vampire can assume gaseous form at will as the spell (caster level 5th), but it can remain gaseous indefinitely and has a fly speed of 20 feet with perfect maneuverability.
Resistances (Ex)

A vampire has resistance to cold 10 and electricity 10.
Spider Climb (Ex)

A vampire can climb sheer surfaces as though with a spider climb spell.
Turn Resistance (Ex)

A vampire has +4 turn resistance.
Abilities

Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +6, Dex +4, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +4. As an undead creature, a vampire has no Constitution score.
Skills

Vampires have a +8 racial bonus on Bluff, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot checks. Otherwise same as the base creature.
Feats

Vampires gain Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, and Lightning Reflexes, assuming the base creature meets the prerequisites and doesn’t already have these feats.

Challenge Rating: Same as the base creature +2.


Always evil (any).
Level Adjustment

Same as the base creature +8.

Okay, here are the added abilites Returned have, in addition to the bolded above: Turn Resistance 2, Blindsight 120ft, Power attack feat

To me it seems like vampires get a lot more, so a +1 CR is proper

[Maglor_Grubb]

I don't think you have to worry about PC's taking this or LA, its just impossible for a PC to be this, I mean, you're sort of a cohort and are send by an evil god every night.