Is this feat Overpowered?

[Yael]

So, I found a third-party feat called Lost Tradition, which changes the casting stat (for casting higher-level spells, calculating DC, and bonus spells) from one to another, for example, on a cleric: Changing Wisdom to Charisma, and else (that is the example in the book), I just got it from a friend, it's called Bastards and Bloodlines, and the page is 91.

[georgie_leech]

Very little is overpowered on its own. My mind immediately jumps to Cancer Mage Shenanigans.

[sleepyphoenixx]

There's nothing stopping you from using a physical stat iirc. True Con SAD is pretty strong on a T1 caster, Gishes will love casting from Str (which is also a lot more easily boosted than mental stats), etc.
If you restrict it to mental stats only it's not especially overpowered and probably not worth a feat in most cases unless you get some synergy out of it.

[Yael]

Maybe for a theurge build?

[eggynack]

It's pretty good, especially on classes like the archivist, for whom you can presumably turn two casting stats into one. However, even if it might have a couple of very good uses, it's definitely not the most powerful feat out there. Whether it's overpowered thus depends, as it always does, on the game you're playing.

[Flickerdart]

The feat is most useful for theurge types, who normally have to juggle two high ability scores if they want to keep up with both sides of their casting.

[weckar]

Dex casters work well. Nuff said.

[DeAnno]

OP if it links to a physical stat (especially Strength), fine otherwise barring some broken shenanigans happening by accident (infinite loops or similar).

[Zombulian]

Very little is overpowered on its own. My mind immediately jumps to Cancer Mage Shenanigans.

Oh my gosh. Didn't even cross my mind.

[Yael]

Excuse my ignorance, but what a Shenanigan is?

[eggynack]

Excuse my ignorance, but what a Shenanigan is?
Y'know, ridiculousness, cheesery, or perhaps chicanery, if you want to go in the wrong direction.

[Ingus]

It is not.
Not too much at least.

Reducing MAD is always a good thing and can prove to be at hand.
I could even allow a gish to cast on strenght or dexterity, unless clear abuse (Cancer Mage, really).

I would not allow anyone to cast on Con, though: Con itself is too good to be a casting stat.

There are already means to cast with alternative stats anyway (all reported in X stats for Y bonus thread)


Excuse my ignorance, but what a Shenanigan is?

Neither I did until surfing in this site :smallbiggrin:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shenanigan

[georgie_leech]

Excuse my ignorance, but what a Shenanigan is?

Sorry, I'll be more clear. Cancer Mage is a prestige class that, among other things, lets you ignore the negative effects of disease. Festering Anger is a disease that, if you ignore the negatives, gives you a free +2 to Strength each day you have it. In other words, you can have an arbitrarily high Strength score depending on how long you wait. Spend a month crafting items, and your 10 Strength Wizard comes out with a Strength of 70. Wait a year, and it'll be about 750. Spend some time on a plane where time flows for you at a much greater rate, and come out with absolutely silly Strength score; low thousands is going easy. This is bad enough when it's just used to break down ALL THE DOORS or deal huge amounts of damage with Melee attacks. If you can key bonus spells off of it...

[FullStop]

Sorry, I'll be more clear. Cancer Mage is a prestige class that, among other things, lets you ignore the negative effects of disease. Festering Anger is a disease that, if you ignore the negatives, gives you a free +2 to Strength each day you have it. In other words, you can have an arbitrarily high Strength score depending on how long you wait. Spend a month crafting items, and your 10 Strength Wizard comes out with a Strength of 70. Wait a year, and it'll be about 750. Spend some time on a plane where time flows for you at a much greater rate, and come out with absolutely silly Strength score; low thousands is going easy. This is bad enough when it's just used to break down ALL THE DOORS or deal huge amounts of damage with Melee attacks. If you can key bonus spells off of it...

Unless you have a huge font of extra actions, I can't see the extra bonus spells as being as big of a deal as your save-or-whatever spells essentially turning into Save: Will and testament.

[georgie_leech]

Unless you have a huge font of extra actions, I can't see the extra bonus spells as being as big of a deal as your save-or-whatever spells essentially turning into Save: Will and testament.

In theory, the main balancing factor of Spells is that they can only be used a limited number of times per day, so being able to use your most powerful tools over and over again is shattering that implicit balance point.

EDIT: As well, consider that part of the point of, say, the Wizard is that they have a vast amount of potential tools but can only use a limited subset at any given time. With enough spells, you can just prepare dozens of copies of everything, removing that element of choice.

[Yogibear41]

Currently using the feat on a character to make paladin casting Charisma based. Con based casting would be pretty awesome, but not necessarily game breaking. I really like the Fey Soul feat from the same book, as well.

[Telonius]

It's good for theurges, Gish-y characters (including Paladins), and anyone else who wants to reduce MAD. And it is overpowered for Druids, if they're using it for a physical stat.

The other possibility is to combine it with a race that gives a large bonus to a stat not normally used for casting. Mongrelfolk with Constitution-based casting, Orc with Strength-based casting, and so on. You also have the possibility of increasing your casting stat by being Enlarged or Reduced, or with other spells (like Bite of the WereCritter).

[Necroticplague]

OP? Not really. On the better side, of feats, yes, but not overpowered.

[Zombulian]

Currently using the feat on a character to make paladin casting Charisma based. Con based casting would be pretty awesome, but not necessarily game breaking. I really like the Fey Soul feat from the same book, as well.

Btw the Serenity feat from Dragon Compendium already does something similar to that by keying all of your Paladin abilities to Wisdom, and it's not 3rd party.

@Fullstop, I'm definitely going to have to use "Save: Will and Testament" at some point.

[Droningbass]

I think that this feat would be really useful for Ultimate Magus characters as well, especially if going the Wizard/Sorcerer route. A lot of people have mentioned Mystic Theurge for providing a similar benefit.

[Yogibear41]

Serenity does do that but it doesn't apply to leadership score a lichs touch attack save or the feat from the same book that let's you use charisma at even levels to determine bonus hp. Which is pretty nifty when you are undead and don't have a con score. Also diplomacy op.

[Necroticplague]

Interesting point, since con casting keeps coming up: in pathfinder, there's an archetype for Orc witches that does use con instead of int for their features. Including spellcasting and hexes.